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Hijacks from Nature of the soul (split from: When did God put the soul in humans during evolution?)

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Moontanman;

 

On 8/2/2019 at 4:38 PM, Moontanman said:

Does no one here actually read what the bible says about the soul?

Well, I don't read it for religious purposes. Mostly I use it as a reference or research tool when something that I am studying relates to it, or to ancient ideas. 

I am not sure if the Bible is relative anyway. It was not referenced in the original thread's OP that this thread split from, but it was in John Bauer's OP. So I guess it's relevance depends on what mood Swansont is in. Was there something in the Bible that you specifically wanted to address?

 

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I may not be a biblical scholar but at one time I was religious, a christian, but always a "doubting Thomas" eventually the doubts become far too thick to be ignored but that is independent of the OT.

I am not a Biblical scholar either, but I have done some studying on this subject. I think that one of the things most "Christians" don't realize is that there is the Bible, then there are the interpretations that dictate Church doctrine, then there is what the guy in the pulpit says. These can be very different things open to vastly different interpretations. Then to complicate things more, we have the New Testament that is almost 2,000 years old, and the Old Testament, which is older yet. So all this time caused the Books in the Bible to go through massive interpretations when cultures and societies adopted them, along with differences in language and understandings about the metaphysical that changed through time. One really does have to be a scholar to study and understand it.

In my early teens, I started reading the Bible because I was also concerned about contradictions. What I eventually learned was that a lot of what I was taught was not actually in the Bible, there was also a lot in the Bible that I was not taught. This is where church doctrine comes in, because churches teach church doctrine -- not the Bible -- or they teach specific passages and ignore others. I think it was St. Augustine, a prolific writer, who established most of the early Christian doctrine -- around 500 AD. It is my opinion that his writings helped usher us into the Dark Ages. I don't remember a lot of his work, but know that a lot of it still permeates Christianity today, and I think he wrote about souls, heaven, and hell. If I remember correctly, he despised Aristotle's work and had nothing good to say for what we now call Science. His policies and doctrines stood unchallenged for about 700 years.

Then A (forgot the name and will have to look it up) came along, rewrote a lot of church doctrine opening minds and eventually welcoming in the Enlightenment and Renaissance. I know that he worked on the concept of souls and worked out what differentiated us from animals, but I don't know if he referenced Adam or Jesus. I would have to look it up. 

 

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If you want to discuss this we have to show some evidence of a god at the very least much less a soul...

Did you read my thread, "Understanding the 'God' Concept"? There is a ton of evidence that "God" is real, but no evidence that He exists. The "God" concept is an archetype, so consult Jung's work if you want to understand it.

 

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Yes Gees I am calling you out, I ate my bowl of stupid this morning and I am ready to digest it thoroughly...

  Good. I ate my bowl also as is evidenced by my still posting in this thread, where I am so welcome.

 

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In some translations or interpretations the soul is nothing more than air, the breath of life, once that air stopped moving in and out of the body it was considered dead. The soul having left the body. 

Yes. Just like we now say that consciousness is no longer in the body, or the body is no longer producing consciousness -- whatever. The simple truth is that this idea has been studied for thousands, maybe tens of thousands, of years with many different interpretations, and we know little more now than we did then. Science thinks it has the answers; it doesn't. Philosophy has a ton of theories/hypotheses, but no comprehensive theory of consciousness. Religion calls consciousness "God" and calls mind, soul, so what? It is just semantics. The "soul", the mind, the self, and the "I" are all the same thing, and I think that most of the people reading this post know that. I am too damned old to be wasting my time arguing about semantics.

 

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None of this makes any sense in the light of science, no evidence for a soul exists that I am aware of, and when "doG" put it in humans is a nonsensical question.

No evidence for mind exists either. There is evidence for thought, but not for mind -- does that mean we don't have minds? Dennett tackled this subject in his book, Consciousness Explained. He ended up explaining that subjectivity was in doubt. Do you have any idea of what kind of nightmare it would be if people accepted his nonsense? Other philosophers dubbed his book, Consciousness Denied, or Consciousness Explained Away. Dennett is generally an intelligent man, but he really blew that one.

When did "God" put the soul in humans? That is an easy one. Interpret "God" as consciousness and ask the question again. When did humans become conscious? When they developed the rational aspect of mind -- the same thing that Science calls consciousness. What is the metaphor about Adam, Eve, and the Garden about? The rational aspect of mind -- consciousness. Do you want me to explain it?

Gee

 

Sorry, we cross posted.

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Anyone who is interested in the big questions,  is warned to stay away from science forums like these. Stuff exists, but we're not allowed to talk about it.  Good luck.

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40 minutes ago, Wulphstein said:

Anyone who is interested in the big questions,  is warned to stay away from science forums like these. Stuff exists, but we're not allowed to talk about it.  Good luck.

So, are you going to stay away?

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10 minutes ago, Strange said:

So, are you going to stay away?

Probably not. lol

20 minutes ago, Strange said:

So, are you going to stay away?

But the truth is, I could talk about religion all day.  I love it!  It has made life better for me and better for so many people.  In fact, In America, we fought a revolution to protect those rights. 

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8 hours ago, Gees said:

Moontanman;

 

Well, I don't read it for religious purposes. Mostly I use it as a reference or research tool when something that I am studying relates to it, or to ancient ideas. 

I am not sure if the Bible is relative anyway. It was not referenced in the original thread's OP that this thread split from, but it was in John Bauer's OP. So I guess it's relevance depends on what mood Swansont is in. Was there something in the Bible that you specifically wanted to address?

!

Moderator Note

My current mood is "annoyed I have to check to see if Gees is following the rules and my status is "disappointed that Gees is not"

The discussion in this thread is the nature of the soul, and this is not addressing it, hence this will end up in the trash can, along with some other off-topic posts

 
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 When did "God" put the soul in humans? That is an easy one. Interpret "God" as consciousness and ask the question again. When did humans become conscious? When they developed the rational aspect of mind -- the same thing that Science calls consciousness. What is the metaphor about Adam, Eve, and the Garden about? The rational aspect of mind -- consciousness. Do you want me to explain it?

!

Moderator Note

That would be a good thing to post in the thread that Vexen started, where this was being discussed. But not the one that was split off for discussing other things.

 

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5 hours ago, Wulphstein said:

Probably not. lol

Then could you please do everyone a favor and stop whining about the enforcement of rules you agreed to when you joined?

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