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Midnighthypothesis

IQ and drug use correlation due to craving stimulation?

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Do people who are more intelligent crave stimulation, at all?

But I have always wondered if this is why intelligent people are more likely to use drugs, specifically cannabis and stimulants.

If the brain craves stimulation and its not getting it, as would be common with high intelligence, it would get that stimulation from stimulants, especially amphetamines and MDMA, as intelligent people have shown to be more likely to use.

I am curious to see a study that looks at the correlation between individuals who participate in raves and IQ. If the IQ of "ravers" is higher than the general population, that could support the hypothesis, as raves tend to be drug and stimulation packed, which would mean intelligent people should be driven to them, if the hypothesis is true.

The problem with the studies that have been made so far is that they havent asked WHY the drugs were used. Was it bordem? Coping? Thrill seeking? 

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Posted (edited)

I wouldn't say intelligent people will be more likely to do drugs, there was the mathematician Paul Erdos, but scientists are hardly known for being drug users. 

Im thinking you might be thinking of celebrities and musicians? That's more to do with lifestyle than intelligence.

as for ravers, I know loads of ravers, there just everyday people I'm afraid, and the reason they do drugs is that it's fun and cheap, Simple as that.

.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Erdos 

the part about drug use is in the personality section, the second paragraph.

Edited by Curious layman

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3 hours ago, Midnighthypothesis said:

intelligent people are more likely to use drugs, specifically cannabis and stimulants.

Citation needed

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56 minutes ago, iNow said:

Citation needed

One of his bro's told him, dude!

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4 hours ago, Midnighthypothesis said:

Do people who are more intelligent crave stimulation, at all?

But I have always wondered if this is why intelligent people are more likely to use drugs, specifically cannabis and stimulants.

If the brain craves stimulation and its not getting it, as would be common with high intelligence, it would get that stimulation from stimulants, especially amphetamines and MDMA, as intelligent people have shown to be more likely to use.

I am curious to see a study that looks at the correlation between individuals who participate in raves and IQ. If the IQ of "ravers" is higher than the general population, that could support the hypothesis, as raves tend to be drug and stimulation packed, which would mean intelligent people should be driven to them, if the hypothesis is true.

The problem with the studies that have been made so far is that they havent asked WHY the drugs were used. Was it bordem? Coping? Thrill seeking? 

As iNow mentioned; it would be nice to have some citations regarding these claims.

But I would like to look at your hypothesis and the method testing it; your null hypothesis would be that ravers are of equal IQ as the general population; and you would want to test if those that go to these raves are of higher IQ. But your initial idea is that this is dependent on drug use, yet not everyone at a rave uses drugs; thus it could be possible that all of the higher IQ people at a rave are all non-drug users. Such an experiment is quite poorly planned.

I do agree that it would be interesting to ask WHY drugs are used by people, but I think for most of the assumptions/tests here, you are jumping to conclusions. 
In science, an important question is; what ELSE could explain my data & what data do I expect and what does it mean.

It would be more suitable to design a specific experiment to test this instead of testing the IQ of people at a rave (also I suppose there is quite the debate about the correlation of IQ and intelligence, so I would suggest sticking to 1 of the 2 terms, probably IQ as intelligence is more difficult (if possible at all) to test).

-Dagl
 

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Posted (edited)

This can be a trade game for the pharmacological industry. That is a only increasing stocks after the peoples affected of the physical changes and that can reflect your possibilities or can be effect long time or permanently damage.

Edited by hydrox

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8 hours ago, Midnighthypothesis said:

Do people who are more intelligent crave stimulation, at all?

But I have always wondered if this is why intelligent people are more likely to use drugs, specifically cannabis and stimulants.

You first need to define "stimulation" and "stimulants". Is caffeine a stimulant? It doesn't stimulate anything, really, it suppresses another substance that makes us drowsy. That's like swallowing saliva to make a parched throat feel better and claiming you're "hydrating".

I also wouldn't put alcohol and cannabis in the same "stimulant" category with meth or cocaine. Passed-out drinkers/smokers don't seem as 'stimulated" as the folks who've been up for two days. 

I've never looked at "stimulation" as part of being intelligent. The opposite seems true, that someone who lacks knowledge and creativity would be more likely to crave something more interesting than the crickets in their heads. Wouldn't a truly intelligent person be more interested in exploring what their truly intelligent mind is capable of soberly investigating? Most people I know who partake in <insert substance of choice here> do it because they want a break from intelligent pursuits. They call it getting crazy for a reason. If there is any correlation, that's where I'd search for it. It's not about the stimulation, it's about throwing a blanket over the monkeys in your head.  

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10 hours ago, Midnighthypothesis said:

intelligent people are more likely to use drugs, specifically cannabis and stimulants.

Cannabis is not typically considered a stimulant- rather the reverse.

So, if your assertion is correct (and others have already questioned that) it suggests that bright people seek downers as much as uppers, so it's not necessarily stimulation they seek.

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11 hours ago, John Cuthber said:

Cannabis is not typically considered a stimulant- rather the reverse.

So, if your assertion is correct (and others have already questioned that) it suggests that bright people seek downers as much as uppers, so it's not necessarily stimulation they seek.

Cannabis isnt a stimulant, but it is stimulating. 

But heres the citation:

https://www.soberliving.com/addiction/articles/high-iq-kids-likely-to-use-drugs/

Other articles exist, but they mostly seem to come from the same study.

12 hours ago, Phi for All said:

You first need to define "stimulation" and "stimulants". Is caffeine a stimulant? It doesn't stimulate anything, really, it suppresses another substance that makes us drowsy. That's like swallowing saliva to make a parched throat feel better and claiming you're "hydrating".

I also wouldn't put alcohol and cannabis in the same "stimulant" category with meth or cocaine. Passed-out drinkers/smokers don't seem as 'stimulated" as the folks who've been up for two days. 

I've never looked at "stimulation" as part of being intelligent. The opposite seems true, that someone who lacks knowledge and creativity would be more likely to crave something more interesting than the crickets in their heads. Wouldn't a truly intelligent person be more interested in exploring what their truly intelligent mind is capable of soberly investigating? Most people I know who partake in <insert substance of choice here> do it because they want a break from intelligent pursuits. They call it getting crazy for a reason. If there is any correlation, that's where I'd search for it. It's not about the stimulation, it's about throwing a blanket over the monkeys in your head.  

https://www.soberliving.com/addiction/articles/high-iq-kids-likely-to-use-drugs/

Amphetamines, cocaine, MDMA and other ecstasies (MDA, whatever). 

Cannabis and alcohol are used more by intelligent people as well, but downers in general are not used for the same reasons as uppers are.  Although cannabis, being a very weak psychedelic, could be considered stimulating.

The reason I specifified stimulants and cannabis is because overall, stimulants and cannanbis have the highest increase in use with IQ, where as downers have a lot less. 

Although alcohol is used more with intelligent people as well, alcohol and benzos generally are used as coping mechinisms, and downers in general. Psychedelics, amphetamines, dissosiatives, empathogens, arent good for coping to begin with. 

 

17 hours ago, Dagl1 said:

As iNow mentioned; it would be nice to have some citations regarding these claims.

But I would like to look at your hypothesis and the method testing it; your null hypothesis would be that ravers are of equal IQ as the general population; and you would want to test if those that go to these raves are of higher IQ. But your initial idea is that this is dependent on drug use, yet not everyone at a rave uses drugs; thus it could be possible that all of the higher IQ people at a rave are all non-drug users. Such an experiment is quite poorly planned.

I do agree that it would be interesting to ask WHY drugs are used by people, but I think for most of the assumptions/tests here, you are jumping to conclusions. 
In science, an important question is; what ELSE could explain my data & what data do I expect and what does it mean.

It would be more suitable to design a specific experiment to test this instead of testing the IQ of people at a rave (also I suppose there is quite the debate about the correlation of IQ and intelligence, so I would suggest sticking to 1 of the 2 terms, probably IQ as intelligence is more difficult (if possible at all) to test).

-Dagl
 

The reason I figured a study with raves would be helpful is because raves are, in general, heavily stimulating. If you crave a lot of stimulation, you would enjoy raves. If overstimulation is a problem for you, you would avoid them. Unrelated to the widespread drug use in them, more because they are some of the most stimulating events.

21 hours ago, Curious layman said:

I wouldn't say intelligent people will be more likely to do drugs, there was the mathematician Paul Erdos, but scientists are hardly known for being drug users. 

Im thinking you might be thinking of celebrities and musicians? That's more to do with lifestyle than intelligence.

as for ravers, I know loads of ravers, there just everyday people I'm afraid, and the reason they do drugs is that it's fun and cheap, Simple as that.

.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Erdos 

the part about drug use is in the personality section, the second paragraph.

https://www.soberliving.com/addiction/articles/high-iq-kids-likely-to-use-drugs/

Yea, the rave thing isnt related to drug use. I proposed it because I cant think of any type of event that stimulates as much as raves.

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Unfortunately the website you used did not cite the origin of the claim. As such it is not terribly useful. A quick look at drug use and IQ does not yield obvious literature in that regard, other than a report that claimed declining IQ with increasing cannabis use (though the effect looks weak on first sight). Unless you can find the actual source (i.e. an actual study) I would treat the assumption with a lot of caution.

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On 7/12/2019 at 7:07 AM, Midnighthypothesis said:

Other articles exist, but they mostly seem to come from the same study.

FWIW here is the original report...

https://jech.bmj.com/content/66/9/767

This (from the NHS website) is a good summary and highlights why the study is inconclusive...

https://www.nhs.uk/news/lifestyle-and-exercise/childhood-iq-linked-to-adult-drug-use/ 

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44 minutes ago, Royston said:

FWIW here is the original report...

https://jech.bmj.com/content/66/9/767

This (from the NHS website) is a good summary and highlights why the study is inconclusive...

https://www.nhs.uk/news/lifestyle-and-exercise/childhood-iq-linked-to-adult-drug-use/ 

Good find. There is a bit of follow-up, but it is interesting to see that the majority of use is related to cannabis, most likely due to availability (esp. in college). Also interesting was that while drug use was higher in men than women, the association of drug use with IQ was higher in women than in men. There is not a lot of follow-up to look deeper into the association, though.

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