Curious layman

The next branch on the tree

Recommended Posts

I personally think that human intelligence/complexity is a double edged sword, it's allowed us to become advanced, but the next stage of human evolution is space, and space is the most extreme environment there is, it seems impossible to practically get humans out out the solar system, too much energy, we need stimulation, prone to disease, food, water, vitamins etc... 

Its this reason I think the next "branch" on the tree of life won't be a more advanced version of us but more of a devolution, just basic life forms, microbes that we send of towards planets in habitatal zones, after that I think the next branch will be new civilisations. 

What do you think? Do you think we're just to complex to realistically leave the solar system? 

I think in the future the emphasis will be to get life out in to the universe, rather than humans. This is also why I think UFO ( aliens ) is nonsense, there'd have the same problems as us, so unless they were born in the solar system it would be impossible.

 Not sure if this should be in speculations.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
48 minutes ago, Curious layman said:

I personally think that human intelligence/complexity is a double edged sword, it's allowed us to become advanced, but the next stage of human evolution is space, and space is the most extreme environment there is, it seems impossible to practically get humans out out the solar system, too much energy, we need stimulation, prone to disease, food, water, vitamins etc... 

Its this reason I think the next "branch" on the tree of life won't be a more advanced version of us but more of a devolution, just basic life forms, microbes that we send of towards planets in habitatal zones, after that I think the next branch will be new civilisations. 

What do you think? Do you think we're just to complex to realistically leave the solar system? 

I think in the future the emphasis will be to get life out in to the universe, rather than humans. This is also why I think UFO ( aliens ) is nonsense, there'd have the same problems as us, so unless they were born in the solar system it would be impossible.

 Not sure if this should be in speculations.

I think you have made some valid points. As long as humanity can survive its follies and perhaps any natural extinction event, and given the time, we may even go beyond the solar system...given the time!

UFO's are just that...unidentified. And while I certainly believe we are not alone in this universe, as yet we have no evidence of any life off the Earth, let alone any visiting Earth. Time and distance will always be the great barriers making inter-species contact difficult to say the least.

I would envisage and speculate that In an advanced age [perhaps 100 years in the future] we may have the technology, know how and will power to send generation ships to the stars, Proxima Centauri for example...

 

Edited by beecee

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Curious layman said:

I personally think that human intelligence/complexity is a double edged sword, it's allowed us to become advanced, but the next stage of human evolution is space, and space is the most extreme environment there is, it seems impossible to practically get humans out out the solar system, too much energy, we need stimulation, prone to disease, food, water, vitamins etc... 

Why do you think we would need to get humans out of the solar system? It is quite possible to build self contained habitats inside the solar system that would equal millions of earths in surface area. 

4 hours ago, Curious layman said:

Its this reason I think the next "branch" on the tree of life won't be a more advanced version of us but more of a devolution, just basic life forms, microbes that we send of towards planets in habitatal zones, after that I think the next branch will be new civilisations.

Wouldn't that be at the risk of infecting other planets with our microbes? 

4 hours ago, Curious layman said:

What do you think? Do you think we're just to complex to realistically leave the solar system?

I see no reason to assume that... 

4 hours ago, Curious layman said:

I think in the future the emphasis will be to get life out in to the universe, rather than humans.

Well I guess you can think anything you want but are you asserting there is no other life in the universe? 

4 hours ago, Curious layman said:

This is also why I think UFO ( aliens ) is nonsense, there'd have the same problems as us, so unless they were born in the solar system it would be impossible.

Not impossible, not even difficult, see the first part of my answers, such habitats could slowly travel all over the galaxy stopping to make new habitats even if there are no other planets. BTW if you lend credence to UFOs then this could be the source, other civilizations could already be growing in the oort cloud or kuiper belt and we would be none the wiser.  

4 hours ago, Curious layman said:

 Not sure if this should be in speculations.

Me either.. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Moontanman said:

Why do you think we would need to get humans out of the solar system? It is quite possible to build self contained habitats inside the solar system that would equal millions of earths in surface area. 

Wouldn't that be at the risk of infecting other planets with our microbes? 

I see no reason to assume that... 

Well I guess you can think anything you want but are you asserting there is no other life in the universe? 

Not impossible, not even difficult, see the first part of my answers, such habitats could slowly travel all over the galaxy stopping to make new habitats even if there are no other planets. BTW if you lend credence to UFOs then this could be the source, other civilizations could already be growing in the oort cloud or kuiper belt and we would be none the wiser.  

Me either.. 

I was thinking about humans expanding out into the universe (we can't stay here forever can we?), it just seems impossible (travelling close light speed anyway), wouldn't it make more sense to focus on simple, basic forms of life. Using our knowledge to be responsible for life itself expanding into the galaxy, instead of ourselves.

As for the microbes, I was thinking more about sending probes to planets to "kick start" life, obviously this would take billions of years. The emphasis is on how to give life the best chance to survive and continue to evolve.

 I disagree when you say it's not even difficult, surely the distances would make it highly improbable? What about air, you could be travelling for thousands of years between stars.

I do think that there are aliens in the solar system, but not big green things though, microbes and bacteria.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Curious layman said:

I was thinking about humans expanding out into the universe (we can't stay here forever can we?), it just seems impossible (travelling close light speed anyway), wouldn't it make more sense to focus on simple, basic forms of life. Using our knowledge to be responsible for life itself expanding into the galaxy, instead of ourselves.

Why would we want to send microbes out into space if life already exists there? 

1 minute ago, Curious layman said:

As for the microbes, I was thinking more about sending probes to planets to "kick start" life, obviously this would take billions of years. The emphasis is on how to give life the best chance to survive and continue to evolve.

Given the correct conditions life is inevitable at according to Jeremy England

1 minute ago, Curious layman said:

 I disagree when you say it's not even difficult, surely the distances would make it highly improbable? What about air, you could be travelling for thousands of years between stars.

Again, distance is meaningless given time and traveling for tens of thousands of years is the point. But the travel isn't done by one ship. The idea is that one ship can reproduce it's self by "living off the land" or in other words using material it encounters in space, which is not as empty as people think" and planets become unnecessary. Planets, being deep gravity wells, could and probably would, be avoided in such a scenario in favor of cosmic debris like oort cloud objects. These objects also exist between stars as well but even dust could be collected to harvest volatiles that would be lost over thousands of years of travel time. See O'Neil cylinders  and or Stanford torus

1 minute ago, Curious layman said:

I do think that there are aliens in the solar system, but not big green things though, microbes and bacteria.

Probably correct but it's not impossible or even particularly unlikely... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Curious layman said:

Its this reason I think the next "branch" on the tree of life won't be a more advanced version of us but more of a devolution, just basic life forms, microbes that we send of towards planets in habitatal zones, after that I think the next branch will be new civilisations. 

 

NASA developed the office of Planetary Protection to meet NASA and international requirements to protect against microbes setting up shop elsewhere. I suspect that purposely launching microbes to other worlds will not happen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your

19 minutes ago, Moontanman said:

Why would we want to send microbes out into space if life already exists there? 

Given the correct conditions life is inevitable at according to Jeremy England

Again, distance is meaningless given time and traveling for tens of thousands of years is the point. But the travel isn't done by one ship. The idea is that one ship can reproduce it's self by "living off the land" or in other words using material it encounters in space, which is not as empty as people think" and planets become unnecessary. Planets, being deep gravity wells, could and probably would, be avoided in such a scenario in favor of cosmic debris like oort cloud objects. These objects also exist between stars as well but even dust could be collected to harvest volatiles that would be lost over thousands of years of travel time. See O'Neil cylinders  and or Stanford torus

Probably correct but it's not impossible or even particularly unlikely... 

Your right about the microbes, would be pointless come to think of it, Nice links, will check out your you tube channel also.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Curious layman said:

I was thinking about humans expanding out into the universe (we can't stay here forever can we?), it just seems impossible (travelling close light speed anyway), wouldn't it make more sense to focus on simple, basic forms of life. Using our knowledge to be responsible for life itself expanding into the galaxy, instead of ourselves.

I don’t see why we can’t stay here. Even if some people do go off and explore / colonise space, most people will stay here. 

But apparently it might not be so difficult for civilisations to spread through the galaxy:

Quote

The research, which is under review by The Astrophysical Journal, suggests it wouldn’t take as long as Sagan and Newman thought for a space-faring civilization to planet-hop across the galaxy, because the movements of stars can help distribute life. “The sun has been around the center of the Milky Way 50 times,” said Jonathan Carroll-Nellenback, an astronomer at the University of Rochester, who led the study. “Stellar motions alone would get you the spread of life on time scales much shorter than the age of the galaxy.”

https://www.quantamagazine.org/galaxy-simulations-offer-a-new-solution-to-the-fermi-paradox-20190307/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was thinking when the sun isnt around anymore, will be a long time but at some point we will have to leave, or am I wrong?, i was thinking about how to stop us from dying out. 

I know it sounds gloomy but what if we're the only intelligent (conscious) life, I think we have a responsibility to make sure we spread it out across the galaxy/ universe. 

I was under the impression that leaving the solar system just to go to the nearest star was virtually impossible, but not so sure now.

that quotes very interesting too, never thought about it like that before, does this mean that in the future we will be able to see parts of the universe we can't see now due to us being on the other side of the galaxy?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, Curious layman said:

I was thinking when the sun isnt around anymore, will be a long time but at some point we will have to leave, or am I wrong?, i was thinking about how to stop us from dying out.

Nothing lasts forever.

40 minutes ago, Curious layman said:

I think we have a responsibility to make sure we spread it out across the galaxy/ universe. 

Why? Lets wait to see if we can grow out of war and learn to live in harmony with the planet first. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Curious layman said:

Your

Your right about the microbes, would be pointless come to think of it, Nice links, will check out your you tube channel also.

Mt you tube channel is tiny and about aquariums, if you want space and technology check out Isaac Arthur's Channel... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎6‎/‎16‎/‎2019 at 10:46 AM, Curious layman said:

it seems impossible to practically get humans out out the solar system, too much energy, we need stimulation, prone to disease, food, water, vitamins etc... 

When I was younger it would have seemed impossible for people to have a telephone in their pocket to carry around with them without any wires, let alone a PC which lets you network worldwide and have access to the sum of the worlds information at a click. It's not even a click - you only have to touch the screen. It's all in a single slim box that goes in your pocket.

There are many ways in which people have speculated how such feats of power generation and food and water production/recycling could be possible in the future.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, DrP said:

When I was younger it would have seemed impossible for people to have a telephone in their pocket to carry around with them without any wires, let alone a PC which lets you network worldwide and have access to the sum of the worlds information at a click. It's not even a click - you only have to touch the screen. It's all in a single slim box that goes in your pocket.

There are many ways in which people have speculated how such feats of power generation and food and water production/recycling could be possible in the future.

 

I know, but whenever I read about how much energy is required it's about as much energy as is in the galaxy! And that usually doesn't take into account operating energy, conversion ( 5% efficiency for antimatter engine- which would mean you would need 20 times the amount of fuel ?), 

this is of course about going anywhere at light speed like Star Trek. Going slowly would be fine- nuclear.

on the subject of energy, how's it possible to discover new types of ( usable) energy? I thought we knew what all the chemicals were, thought there were just a few left which just needed to be confirmed e.g. Metallic hydrogen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Curious layman said:

how's it possible to discover new types of ( usable) energy?

I do not know.  Looking at science fiction - the kugelblitz/black hole/singularity drive looks amazing!  Right now it looks totally impossible....  although - if you told a 14 year old DrP about the latest in mobile phone tech, drones or virtual reality gaming and touch screens I would have thought it all far fetched. Sequencing the DNA code and editing human DNA? Wow!... If I told my great granddad when he was a boy that we'd have planes and trips to the moon in space ships he might have thought me mad.   I think that the 'theory' behind the BH drive is based on reality.... you would have to find a way to create or capture your own little black hole and keep it safely contained though, lol.

I was hoping fusion would have got a little further down the line from where we are now... when I was younger I was sure we'd have got a little closer than we have. Always seems like its just 30 to 50 years off... they've been saying that for 60 years or so and we are only a little closer than we were. 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Controlled fusion would be a game changer for sure.. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Moontanman said:

Controlled fusion would be a game changer for sure.. 

Wouldn't though? Within decades the world would be a totally different place  -  possibly unrecognisable.

If they ever announce the breakthrough which permits safe fusion power station construction in my lifetime I will crack open a bottle of Champagne. We all should!  :-) Holy Grail of science in my life time I reckon...  err, although curing death might be a be up there with it I suppose. lol.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
49 minutes ago, DrP said:

Wouldn't though? Within decades the world would be a totally different place  -  possibly unrecognisable.

If they ever announce the breakthrough which permits safe fusion power station construction in my lifetime I will crack open a bottle of Champagne. We all should!  :-) Holy Grail of science in my life time I reckon...  err, although curing death might be a be up there with it I suppose. lol.

 

Hell we should throw an international party and travel around from place to place partying! Fusion torch rocket engines! WOW! You could literally colonise the entire galaxy and ignore planets completely... 

Edited by Moontanman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

World party it will be then. :-) 

It isn't just energy though - we'd need to sort stasis out and longevity and other things for going outside the solar system I would think. Else just have AI do all the exploring...   but that kinda defeats the point no? To go, boldly, where no one has gone before.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, DrP said:

 

World party it will be then. :-) 

It isn't just energy though - we'd need to sort stasis out and longevity and other things for going outside the solar system I would think. Else just have AI do all the exploring...   but that kinda defeats the point no? To go, boldly, where no one has gone before.

I'd be up for colonizing the solar system for the next few thousand years. Space habitats, once we have fusion, could be made from the oort cloud to orbit around the clouds of Venus. Millions of Earth's in square miles of habitat easily obtainable. Just the trojan asteroids of Jupiter could be made into millions of rotating habitats. Assuming we master things like graphene the habitats could be made quite large. Like rolling up a valley on Earth by the millions...  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now