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FreeWill

Space is information (split from What is Space made of?)

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17 minutes ago, swansont said:

Isn’t that the point of this discussion? Your speculation about space as information?

If not, what are we doing here?

I already expressed how I handle it.

It is working in the everyday life at least, the cognitive test is in progress.  

Edited by FreeWill

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50 minutes ago, FreeWill said:

The Universe is pretty rigid on the atomic, etc...level.

In my opinion, the Universe is far from "rigid" on the small scales. If anything, the Universe ir "rigid" on the large scales.

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32 minutes ago, FreeWill said:

I would handle spacetime as information about 0 (4D). Evolving with a rate determined by the Laws of Nature. Started at t0 with the physical state of nothing. I think space still represent this original information.

So no mathematical model. And apparently no evidence. Just random guesses.

32 minutes ago, FreeWill said:

Please share those!

General relativity is the obvious example.

32 minutes ago, FreeWill said:

It is part of reality I speculate.

And what evidence can you present for that?

8 minutes ago, FreeWill said:

I already expressed how I handle it.

Not mathematically, which you said was a requirement.

Quote

It is working in the everyday life at least, the cognitive test is in process.  

In what sense is it "working"? Can you provide some examples?

What is a "cognitive test"?

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Just now, Strange said:

And what evidence can you present for that?

The forward pointing function of time to evolve within space, while everything deverges on the large scale observed by Hubble.

5 minutes ago, Strange said:

Just random guesses.

I try to work with logic.

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7 minutes ago, FreeWill said:

The forward pointing function of time to evolve within space...

I’m not familiar with any theory that suggests that time is an entity within space. GR tells us that this is not the case. The „forward pointing function” is called the Arrow of Time or Entropy.

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12 minutes ago, FreeWill said:

The forward pointing function of time to evolve within space, while everything deverges on the large scale observed by Hubble

And how is this evidence for "space is information"? Please provide appropriate mathematical detail in your answer.

12 minutes ago, FreeWill said:

I try to work with logic.

Then I suggest you are failing.

Unless by "logic" you mean "it makes sense to me (because I made it up)".

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33 minutes ago, FreeWill said:

I already expressed how I handle it.

That’s not a model, and this does not qualify as a legitimate speculations thread.

Last chance.

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14 hours ago, FreeWill said:

Vacuum is the closest to empty spacetime. Here we are not able to perceive or detect anything else physical, than the spatial coordinates in the moment of observation.

If we observe a photon in this vacuum, beyond the previously recognised coordinates, we can recognize the energy of the photon. That is physically more properties than the 4D coordinates. 

Space is physically measurable distance i.e information, but not a thing you can give a bucket of. As I learned space itself does not have mass or energy (thats why we can recognize anything in it), so I dare to assume that it is not more than the presentation of basic information: Time.

 

Interesting discussion, and while this has got way too philosophical for me, let me make a small offering.......

Space is what exists between you and me, and Earth and the Moon. If space did not exist, then everything would be together and we would be as we were before the BB.  

Time exists to stop everything from happening at the same instant. If there was no time, we wouldn't be here and the same applies that we would be as we were before the BB.

Here I submit the following.....

"The views of space and time which I wish to lay before you have sprung from the soil of experimental physics, and therein lies their strength. They are radical. Henceforth space by itself, and time by itself, are doomed to fade away into mere shadows, and only a kind of union of the two will preserve an independent reality".

— Hermann Minkowski,
 

Which in my opinion tells me that spacetime is simply the framework against which we locate events an describe them in terms of length. breadth, height and time. Spacetime is also defined by the following facts. [1] the speed of light is invariant. [2] Intervals of space and time, vary according to different frames of references, but spacetime is invariant.[3] Gravity is the geometrical warping/mis-shaping of  spacetime in the presence of mass/energy.

All  are real as I see it, space, time, spacetime, despite not being physical. 

 

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58 minutes ago, beecee said:

[3] Gravity is the geometrical warping/mis-shaping of  spacetime in the presence of mass/energy.

I agree with the previous points.

I have problem with gravity, because I hardly can believe that mass (gravity) can impact (warp) the fabric (the fundamental informational structure and function) of Space and Time.

I do not doubt that mass impact other physical objects and their path! and velocity! in space.

How could mass impact the age of the Universe if the 3rd point is absolutely true?

As Minkowski very well expressed, this Two is One entity, and can not exist without one another. So if space impacted, then time is impacted.

The question is:

Can we differentiate between the relative time of energy and matter impacted by mass and always observed as a part of a bigger system, and the real age of the fundamental realm containing Everyting?

I do not think that the age of the Universe could be impacted by mass or gravity.

Even for a singular point with very big mass, Time is ticking. 

 

Edited by FreeWill

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1 minute ago, FreeWill said:

I agree with the previous points. I have problem with gravity because for I hardly believe that mass (gravity) can impact (warp) the fabric of space and time. I do not doubt that mass impact other physical objects and their path! in space.

The GR model works. Its as simple as that. Gravity is spacetime geometry in the presence of mass/energy.

Quote

How could mass impact the age of the Universe if the 3rd point is absolutely true?

The third point is evidenced by the observational data and success of GR. Who said anything about mass impacting the age of the universe?

Quote

Because as Minkowski very well expresses this the two is one so if space impacted than time is impacted. The question is,

Ahh, I see what you are getting at. The two can still be considered separately. [2] Intervals of space and time, vary according to different frames of references, but spacetime is invariant.

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spacetime

 

 

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13 minutes ago, FreeWill said:

I have problem with gravity, because I hardly can believe that mass (gravity) can impact (warp) the fabric of space and time.

Whether you can believe it or not is not really relevant. The theory works. That is because it is a mathematical model that makes usable quantitative predictions. (Compare this with your own vague and incoherent ideas.)

Now, where is your mathematical model? (And stop avoiding the issue by introducing more of your beliefs and ignorance.)

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3 minutes ago, Strange said:

Now, where is your mathematical model? (And stop avoiding the issue by introducing more of your beliefs and ignorance.)

As I said, I already introduced it.

It is a pretty simple concept. 

I could express it geometrically if that would make it.

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4 minutes ago, FreeWill said:

As I said, I already introduced it.

No you haven't. You have not shown any mathematics.You have just made some vague claims.

You claimed to have a model but said it is "too speculative" for the Speculations forum.

6 minutes ago, FreeWill said:

It is a pretty simple concept.

Then you should not have any problem showing the math. 

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12 minutes ago, FreeWill said:

As I said, I already introduced it.

It is a pretty simple concept. 

I could express it geometrically if that would make it.

I certainly have not seen anything that invalidates GR, or anything that makes verifiable predictions beyond GR.

GR works, the model is overwhelmingly successful and 100 year old predictions have been validated due to improved technological equipment and research.

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13 minutes ago, Strange said:

No you haven't. You have not shown any mathematics.You have just made some vague claims.

You claimed to have a model but said it is "too speculative" for the Speculations forum.

Then you should not have any problem showing the math. 

Space-time is a 4D coordinate system which expands with c2 and every point in it represents the value of 0. 

A bit of Information. 

A basic reference point (line, volume).

 

 

Edited by FreeWill

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11 minutes ago, FreeWill said:

Space-time is a 4D coordinate system which expands with c2 and every point in it represents the value of 0. 

A bit of Information. 

A basic reference point (line, volume).

What does "expands with c2" mean? What does it mean for space-time to expand?

What does "every point in it represents the value of 0" mean?

"A bit of Information." is not a sentence. What is it supposed to mean? 

"A basic reference point (line, volume)." Also not a sentence. What is it supposed to mean?

When are you going to present your mathematical model?

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1 minute ago, FreeWill said:

I think we all know what "bit" means. But you said "a bit of information" which, by itself is meaningless. 

Now, when are you going to present your mathematical model?

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1 hour ago, FreeWill said:

Space-time is a 4D coordinate system which expands with c2 and every point in it represents the value of 0. 

A bit of Information. 

A basic reference point (line, volume).

I have seen nothing in what You have so far said, that shows your hypothetical invalidates GR, or makes verifiable predictions above and beyond GR. Science/cosmology on the other hand, has recently supported two predictions of GR that stems from its equations over the last couple of years...Gravitational waves and BH's.

If in your first statement you are somehow inferring that the universe is expanding faster then light [is this what you mean by c2 ?] then that can be explained...

...https://www.space.com/33306-how-does-the-universe-expand-faster-than-light.html

 

and also the universal speed limit of "c" applies to anything with mass.

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8 hours ago, FreeWill said:

...I have problem with gravity, because I hardly can believe that mass (gravity) can impact (warp) the fabric (the fundamental informational structure and function) of Space and Time...

 

I had the same issue myself a few years ago when I first came here to the forums, I had it mixed up like your post above. Consider this,

Gravity is what happens to spacetime geometry in presence of mass. Gravity is not mass, gravity itself is the bending and warping of spacetime and we perceive it as humans as a change in weight.

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1
2 hours ago, koti said:

Gravity is what happens to spacetime geometry in presence of mass. Gravity is not mass, gravity itself is the bending and warping of spacetime and we perceive it as humans as a change in weight.

That is what I can not really grasp.

The recognition you shared is meaning, that mass can impact the fabric of space-time, which we can recognize as gravity. If space can be impacted by mass than time is impacted by mass. 

Time gives the age of the Universe, so that fundamental information could be impacted, through gravity by mass. I think that is impossible. 

Gravity I speculate what happens to Energies and Matters Space (path) and Time (velocity) in the presence of mass.

 

Edited by FreeWill

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10 hours ago, FreeWill said:

 

Again the many observations and model determine that you are wrong. And with regards to time, have you heard of time dilation? Time will run slower wherever gravity caused by spacetime warpage in the present of mass/energy is strongest, as seen in an outside frame of reference..

 

Edited by beecee

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1 hour ago, FreeWill said:

That is what I can not really grasp.

The recognition you shared is meaning, that mass can impact the fabric of space-time, which we can recognize as gravity. If space can be impacted by mass than time is impacted by mass. 

Time gives the age of the Universe, so that fundamental information could be impacted, through gravity by mass. I think that is impossible. 

The fact that you think it is impossible is irrelevant and, given that we can measure the effects, a little childish.

Quote

Gravity I speculate what happens to Energies and Matters Space (path) and Time (velocity) in the presence of mass.

As you keep posting more nonsense with no attempt to provide a model or any evidence, I will request this thread is closed.

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!

Moderator Note

No model, no testable predictions, no support, despite multiple requests.

IOW, closed. Don't bring this topic up again.

 

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