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jajrussel

Jehovahs Witnesses

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One of the things I admired about Witnesses is that they did their homework. When I was a believer I enjoyed the conversation but knew better than to seriously accept a challenge because, well, they do their homework. I have noticed what looks like research being done here in the religious section. Note - They also do their research. If you want to engage someone in the field in conversation you need to know how to respond in such a way that they will remain in conversation. If you have ever read their literature you might notice the similarities in how some of the questions are presented. I was never a witness and for them that became a problem. I had my own reasons for leaving my religion, and I had my own reasons for not wanting to join theirs, but I have admired them ever since. Note - if you are a believer and don't think it a sin to take advise of from a non-believer. This is the perfect place to do your research even if you are not a Witness.

The Witnesses reached a point where they could no longer associate with me.

Now to my question those if you who are believers how do you feel about taking advise from  and associating with non-believers?

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I am not a believer in any sort of deity (I was raised by two rather staunch atheists), but I have to ask why on earth one's religious affiliation (or lack thereof) should automatically preclude you from associating with them or accepting their advice? What sort of advice? Why would you not accept it if it appears to be well-reasoned and rational? 

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Most of the people I associate with are believers and they take my advice (not about religion obviously).  You would have to be pretty foolish to discount every piece of advice from someone because they are of a different faith or faithless.

I knew a man who was religious, believed in aliens and all manner of woo-woo stuff.  He was very reasonable and intelligent about the rest of the world.  I found his advice on life (from his own experiences) to be rather enlightening.    [shrug]

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I am friends with several JWs. They don't do their homework at all - they have rote questions that Watchtower tell them will trip up Christians because they are told we don't know what the bible says at all. When you talk to them their faith is very strong but based on something that is eggshell thin. It grieves me terribly. And the reason they do everything in pairs is so they can dob each other in if they start to listen to you - several of them have been barred from corresponding with me in any way, even though I have only ever been friendly and eager to listen, which they admit. Very sad.

I see no reason why we shouldn't love and help JWs the same as anyone else, and treat them with the dignity of being made in the image of God, which means they do have brains, and can accept help and advice from them in turn. Two of them often give me a lift home when they see me out and it's bad weather.

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1 hour ago, hypervalent_iodine said:

I am not a believer in any sort of deity (I was raised by two rather staunch atheists), but I have to ask why on earth one's religious affiliation (or lack thereof) should automatically preclude you from associating with them or accepting their advice? What sort of advice? Why would you not accept it if it appears to be well-reasoned and rational? 

They, well not they, but a friend whom I used to play tennis with Told me when I asked for a game quoted scripture and told me that I should have known it was coming, so no more tennis. I don't remember the scripture, but perhaps one of the researchers will speak up and remind me and answer your question at the same time.

Or, maybe not... I'll see if I can find it. It might take a while. It doesn't have to say that exactly which will make it harder to find. :)

26 minutes ago, Ichthus said:

I am friends with several JWs. They don't do their homework at all - they have rote questions that Watchtower tell them will trip up Christians because they are told we don't know what the bible says at all. When you talk to them their faith is very strong but based on something that is eggshell thin. It grieves me terribly. And the reason they do everything in pairs is so they can dob each other in if they start to listen to you - several of them have been barred from corresponding with me in any way, even though I have only ever been friendly and eager to listen, which they admit. Very sad.

I see no reason why we shouldn't love and help JWs the same as anyone else, and treat them with the dignity of being made in the image of God, which means they do have brains, and can accept help and advice from them in turn. Two of them often give me a lift home when they see me out and it's bad weather.

Have you ever been to one of their meetings. They go over their pamphlets line by line. They teach better than most schools if you are a good student. Even as a non-believer I have no problem with anything else you have said

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Yes, I have been to a kingdom hall meeting. They go over their pamphlets, but the conclusions drawn are not questioned, nor do they look broadly at the bible, just at the little bits they are looking at. I am an evangelical, always have been. I was told to read the bible for myself and question anything taught by anyone by what the bible says, then ask the person who said it. 

Example - they are told their translation, the NWT, is superior, mainly because there is a fragment of parchment found from the time of Jesus of the book of Isaiah that agrees with them. I don't think any of them have looked at the information in the records of the Jerusalem museum. That parchment was found with the Dead Sea Scrolls amongst many, many others and under inspection is very poorly copied, with whole chapters left out, and many errors in words used compared to all the other scrolls with Isaiah on them found in the exact same archeological find. This is not an example from scripture, as I think that would matter less if you are not a believer. You do not question Watchtower or you get disfellowshipped.

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The first Sunday after I moved into my current home, two ladies knocked at my door. I answered, and as is usual whenever someone sees me for the first time, they had a lot of questions about why I wear strange ‘Stormtrooper’ boots and use crutches. They wanted to know what happened and I still experience this whenever I go out anywhere. So I told them what happened to me and told them the likely future of my injuries.

They were shocked but sympathetic, left me with a Watchtower, and promised to return next week.

They have NEVER returned. That was 18 months ago...

 

These are the boots...

 

072FE07F-D4EC-4B2F-A8E4-0B2AA835F6B3.png

Edited by nevim
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I was raised a Jehovah's Witness but never baptised. To them, baptism means a life-long commitment to the Watchtower and Tract Society, the official name of their business. They condemn free thinking1 and refuse to budge on their positions. This is all fine for those who would prefer a life laid out for them, but I feel that their discouragement of higher education2 is the main reason that chldren raised within the organization become fully indoctrinated adults. The religion is not well known for its tribalist views and practice of shunning. I was lucky enough to have my father leave the organization when I was three years of age. This allowed my family to get used to divergence when I decided to stop attending "meetings" at the age of fourteen. Many young Jehovah's Witnesses, however, are not so lucky. Some are thrown into the streets and abandoned for leaving "the truth" behind. Overall the religion is extremely dogmatic and believes that the inevitable armageddon will claim the lives of all non-Witnesses within the next few decades3 if they do not hear "the truth" before the coming of their paradise. Many of their propoganda videos (the Become Jehovah's Friend series can be found on JW.org) teach their followers to fear authority and scorn education. One video depicts a girl answering a question incorrectly on a test to intentionally lower her grade so that she wouldn't be top of the class. I could not find the exact video but it is a part of the Become Jehovah's Friend series available on Youtub and JW.org. In conclusion, the Jehovah's Witnesses are a dangerous organization attempting to control you and your thoughts. Have a nice day and remember not to laugh at Jehovah's Witnesses who happen to knock at your door but to pity them.

 

 

 

 

SOURCES:

1. https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/watchtower-study-november-2018/making-gods-thoughts-your-own/

2. https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/w20051001/Parents-What-Future-Do-You-Want-for-Your-Children/#?insight[search_id]=7789837c-0d27-4943-bbab-386a0020ba3c&insight[search_result_index]=11

3. https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1958767?q=end+times&p=par

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I'm not religious but I know a lot of religious people from all sorts of religions, they take advice from non religious people all the time, it not like they ask you first, it's like an atheist not taking advice from a religious person, it would be stupid. in U.K. (Where I live anyway) religion is a very personal thing, people normally keep it to themselves.

theres a jehovah witness place down the road from me, Americans mainly, always found them to be pretty smart and likeable actually  but that's just me..

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their a cult which have twisted the scriptures, I tussle with them a lot, cherry pick city!! that's all they do. no uniformity in their quoting of scripture.

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None of the above really is my experiences with the Witnesses to which I socialized with them for a good few years. I found them to be kind and respectful people who chose to base their beliefs and experience on what they said was the truth, the truth being what was written in the bible. I understand that some people will see it as restrictive and dominant on the mind of people, but that is their way to educate and train the human brain out of this system of things. There are some really good sound reasoning from the scripture that people either choose to believe or not. A good example given to me over 20 years ago was about the ruler-ship of this world system of things. JEHOVAH Witnesses pointed out from scripture that there would be nine rulers (Kings) on this planet and after that there would be no more. The ninth ruler is the EU (European Parliament) and at that time twenty years or so ago it was pointed out to me that the ninth king was crumbling away at the heels, and when the heels give way the head will fall. I then asked what that actually meant! I was then advised that each country agreed to the membership of the EU but then started to go their separate ways and do their own things, thus this meant that the heels were deteriorating and the head was falling. Now the UK (GB) has been fighting again the EU for several years now to break free, and now as I understand it they have left the EU with no deal. So another country has left and the heels of the EU eroded some more. The bible says that the world will be a going concern when Jesus and his army arrives and takes over, the bible says this is the time of Armageddon and at that time ten's of thousands will die, but the bible goes on to say that they will also have to know why, so they won't die without knowing the truth first, but at Armageddon they won't be given a second chance to learn it either. I'm not too sure about this part, but I'm kind of thinking that when Armageddon actual does arrive that Jesus and his army will have to do very little, and I base this reasoning on the understanding that SATAN the word spirit creature that is misleading the world at the moment will know that his time is up, and therefore will be free for a short time to do as much destruction to the human race as he can, and I am to understand he has up to 12 legions of angels with him on his side. I'm quite confident I'm correct on this because when Jesus was on earth, Satan pointed the finger at Jesus and then Jesus said something along the lines of, I can have 12 legions of angels here now, and Satan then immediately backed off, so I have an understanding of his size of army. I'm also to understand the power of these angels, where the scripture advises that 1 angel over 1 evening actually took the lives of over 160,000 soldiers who the following morning were to destroy a community of common people sent by JEHOVAH to save them, so the human race today fighting an invisible force have no chance against them, hence JEHOVAH said that those taken under his wing will be saved, but that is not cast iron as the bible goes on to say that there will be survivors, so maybe Jesus and his angels are coming here not to completely destroy us, but to fight and take prisoners Satan and his demons until the final judgment.    

I can say that the good few years I spent with them I learned a lot about how the world system of things is unfolding, and now years later I am seeing the practical truth of the bible scripture. The world spirit does not want anyone to see what is coming and hence tries to preoccupy all peoples minds and keep everyone busy and focused on other ideas and matters that truthfully probably are not that important, we as a human race just think they are.  

But I do know this, based on my own personal experiences through my life long before I had ever heard of JEHOVAH's Witnesses or any other religion, I'd already had dealing with the spirit world through my childhood, so I positively know something is there, and since I got to understand JEHOVAH (Not his witnesses) and their views and opinions, I then got practical based experiences from the spirit world that was seriously in opposition to JEHOVAH and what he stands for.      

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I don't have a problem with people's own personal beliefs, but don't like it much when they try to 'convert' me.

I have found that, if you answer the door in your underwear, when JWs come calling, they don't come back again.

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