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Vexen

How will we survive if machines are taking most jobs?

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I must be the only one in this thread who has a crappy job (to go with my crappy education). Personally I can't wait for a robot to walk in and apply for a job where I work. It can have my job, no problems what so ever. I'm being serious as well. 

I cant even begin to describe just how bad my job is or what it does to me mentally. I feel physically and mentally crushed most nights. The same repetitive motions, no music, dusty factory, can't leave your bench, always too hot, the senior management seem to be completely inept and are either resigning or being sacked, low wages (can't save), a turnover rate over 60%, over 90% of employees are still agency workers (with some having worked here for 5+years!), no communication, we have no idea if our jobs will still be here in 6 months, chronic back ache, leg pains from standing in same place, the list goes on...

And it's not as simple as getting another job, unless it a company like Rolls Royce, a factory job is a factory job- same shit different place. I live in a little town in North Wales so choices are limited.

Education isn't really an option either 1- can't afford it, 2- I've got avoidance personality (and other stuff) so the idea of being in college around all the people is hugely stressful to me (why I work nights), it's just not going to happen. 

Im fine being poor(ish), uneducated (my fault), living in a small town (can leave whenever i want), I'm even fine giving my job to a robot or AI, so are most of the people who work on my shift in fact, we can't wait for the robot revolution. If it means I'm even poorer as a result, I still don't care, just as long as it happens.

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This reminds me of the parable of the industrious mouse...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ant_and_the_Grasshopper

It doesn't matter who does the work as long as someone does; what matters is how my brother spends the money.

When the robots finally rock up, my brothers spending habits will be exposed; and the maths suggests a billion to one is not great odds... 

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45 minutes ago, Curious layman said:

 I still don't care

This one set of words at the very end of your post is the single best explanation for all of the negative sentiments you described in the rest. You seem to have given up and turned apathetic. As should be obvious to everyone... That's not a successful recipe for maximizing the chances of situational improvement.

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6 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

This reminds me of the parable of the industrious mouse...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ant_and_the_Grasshopper

True, but it feels like I live in the alternate version with the greedy ant. I used to like working for this company, worked hard, did overtime, no sly fag breaks, but they just ground me/us down. We feel invisible.

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Just now, Curious layman said:

True, but it feels like I live in the alternate version with the greedy ant. I used to like working for this company, worked hard, did overtime, no sly fag breaks, but they just ground me/us down. We feel invisible.

I'm guessing you did that when you felt visible, but the thing about a billion to one is we often mistake, when the odds are reversed...

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I never used to feel like this, but I become more and more disillusioned by the day, I understand brexit and Trump supporters, I wouldn't vote for either but I understand their frustrations.

Im actually quite positive about robots/AI. I think they'll help uneducated/disabled people get better jobs not worse. There'll be a transition period of course. Robots and people together is a better combination than either alone. More practical for most businesses too.

It's the capabilities of emerging tech people should focus on. look at the emerging/new industries like space tourism, driverless cars, or drones for example.

Not to mention the greatest use for a robot I can think of... taking my job.

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2 minutes ago, Curious layman said:

I never used to feel like this, but I become more and more disillusioned by the day, I understand brexit and Trump supporters, I wouldn't vote for either but I understand their frustrations.

Why else do governments seek to destroy the unions?

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One way to survive can be to work at a factory that builds robots.

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2 minutes ago, Externet said:

One way to survive can be to work at a factory that builds robots.

Yes. Lots of robots equals lots of factories to build them. Not just industrial robots either- nano, military, space, security, personal and a load of other robots too. 3D printers as well. 

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Just now, Externet said:

One way to survive can be to work at a factory that builds robots.

Another way is to refuse to work...

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I really don't understand this thread.

Imagine I build a robot and I send it to do my job for me.

I still get paid- because my work still gets done.

But I am now free to do stuff like surfing the web or writing bad poetry or whatever.

I can take time to cook better food, and I can spend more time walking in the hills near where I live.

What's the downside?

 

Now imagine that everyone does the same thing- all the work is done by robots and all of us are free to pursue our hobbies.

Since everyone is in the same position, there's no need for anyone to rock the boat by saying that we shouldn't get paid.

However, since nobody is actually doing anything important, there's no reason why anyone should be paid more (or less) than anyone else.

And, since the machines are doing all the work, and they don't need paying, there's no reason why I need money to pay for goods and services.

 

Sounds good to me.

 

 

 

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27 minutes ago, John Cuthber said:

I really don't understand this thread.

Imagine I build a robot and I send it to do my job for me.

I still get paid- because my work still gets done.

But I am now free to do stuff like surfing the web or writing bad poetry or whatever.

I can take time to cook better food, and I can spend more time walking in the hills near where I live.

What's the downside?

 

Now imagine that everyone does the same thing- all the work is done by robots and all of us are free to pursue our hobbies.

Since everyone is in the same position, there's no need for anyone to rock the boat by saying that we shouldn't get paid.

However, since nobody is actually doing anything important, there's no reason why anyone should be paid more (or less) than anyone else.

And, since the machines are doing all the work, and they don't need paying, there's no reason why I need money to pay for goods and services.

 

Sounds good to me.

It should be good, but do you really think the oligarchs are going to cooperate?

Property is power and the owners aren't just going to hand over the deeds; as long as people want to keep up with the Jones', better still, beat them they will design a reason into the system. 

Robots can't supplant human nature, "would that they could"...   

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1 hour ago, John Cuthber said:

Imagine I build a robot and I send it to do my job for me.

I still get paid- because my work still gets done.

The assumptions here are that 1) you’d build and own the robots, and 2) you’d still get paid. If those apply, you’re surely right that this is all motherhood and apple pie.

However, much more likely is that a tiny handful of ultra rich will build and own all robots, workers will be both displaced and cutout of any profits or income, and the classes will further separate while people starve and struggle to keep a roof over their heads... unless we proactively put policies in place to support the masses irrespective of robot ownership. 

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What counts is to work.  The only activity that can sustain people.

If everyone in town wins a share of the lottery; would be a disaster.  Everyone with money in their pockets, nobody wants to work for it.

Where to buy bread, to have your vehicle repaired, to get cure from a doctor,  to learn a profession, even to get buried ? 

The baker does not want to work because won the lottery,

The mechanic does not want to work because won the lottery,

The doctor does not want to work because won the lottery,

The teacher does not want to work because won the lottery,

The robot builder does not want to work because won the lottery,

And zillion more activities part of our daily lives.

And nobody in town can even celebrate the lottery won with a beer because the brewer has enough money after winning the lottery. Why work then?  Now you know.  It is not money.  It is to have work.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Externet said:

What counts is to work.  The only activity that can sustain people.

If everyone in town wins a share of the lottery; would be a disaster.  Everyone with money in their pockets, nobody wants to work for it. 

Where to buy bread, to have your vehicle repaired, to get cure from a doctor,  to learn a profession, even to get buried ? 

The baker does not want to work because won the lottery,

The mechanic does not want to work because won the lottery,

The doctor does not want to work because won the lottery,

The teacher does not want to work because won the lottery,

The robot builder does not want to work because won the lottery,

And zillion more activities part of our daily lives.

And nobody in town can even celebrate the lottery won with a beer because the brewer has enough money after winning the lottery. Why work then?  Now you know.  It is not money.  It is to have work. 

It is to have work activity that you LOVE to do..

Why people are quitting job ASAP after winning the lottery? Because they HATE their daily job..

Recently there was thread about "purpose of life". If somebody would be immortal and having to do job he or she hates, for eternity, it would be like being in the hell for eternity..

People doing their hated jobs dream of retiring. That is really sad life.

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8 hours ago, Sensei said:

It is to have work activity that you LOVE to do..

Why people are quitting job ASAP after winning the lottery? Because they HATE their daily job..

Recently there was thread about "purpose of life". If somebody would be immortal and having to do job he or she hates, for eternity, it would be like being in the hell for eternity..

People doing their hated jobs dream of retiring. That is really sad life.

Definitely important to have a job you like doing.

I'm thinking people will still find ways to occupy their time but their work will be more meaningful or at least pleasant.

Resources will still be finite, so some economic system will be required. Always some scarcity out there. Quite bit will likely be effectively free though.

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4 hours ago, Endy0816 said:

Definitely important to have a job you like doing.

 

No

It's important to have a pastime that you like doing.

It  doesn't have to be a job.

4 hours ago, Endy0816 said:

Resources will still be finite, so some economic system will be required.

21st century economics is finally catching up with what Malthus said over 200 years ago.

You can't have continuous growth if you have finite resources. That's going to rewrite the rulebook for economics to such an extent that I'm not sure that"economic system" will be recognisable.

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20 hours ago, Externet said:

What counts is to work.  The only activity that can sustain people.

If everyone in town wins a share of the lottery; would be a disaster.  Everyone with money in their pockets, nobody wants to work for it.

You're missing the point of robots in the context of this thread. If we remove the concept of the worker as a commodity then capitalism fails, but that doesn't equal disaster because the work is still done... 

Nobody expects the capitalist revolution... The capitalist has two choices, 1) work out a way to stop other capitalists from investing in robots, 2) work out a way to pay everyone enough to buy what they're selling and 3) attack the Klingon's...

Three, the capitalists have three choices... 

 

Edited by dimreepr

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On 3/5/2019 at 8:54 AM, Vexen said:

How will we survive if machines are taking most jobs?

Machines always widen the America class gaps. You lay off 10,000 people and many of them will have to start in a new profession at a lower pay, some will keep their pay level and some will never recover. Each round of layoffs produces some ups but mostly downs. Some are movin' up, most are movin' down. The middle class suffers the most and is constantly shrinking. Eventually it'll be rags and riches like it was once upon a time, long ago.

Edited by Art Man

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