Vexen

Why does the Christian God allow slavery in the Bible?

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Exodus chapter 12 verse 43

The Lord said to Moses and Aaron, "These are the regulations for the Passover: No foreigner is to eat of it. Any slave you have bought may eat of it after you have circumcised him, but a temporary resident and a hired worker may not eat of it.

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Why does the Christian God allow slavery in the Bible?

Because she is evil?

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1 hour ago, Vexen said:

The Lord said to Moses and Aaron, 

[somewhere] The Lord said to Lazarus, come forth: But Lazarus was slow and came fifth. 

:P

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1 hour ago, Vexen said:

Exodus chapter 12 verse 43

The Lord said to Moses and Aaron, "These are the regulations for the Passover: No foreigner is to eat of it. Any slave you have bought may eat of it after you have circumcised him, but a temporary resident and a hired worker may not eat of it.

We are all still slaves. We didn't really end it just changed it. 

Why do you except the modern forms if it? 

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Because the book was written by people, trying to codify and justify their behavior?

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Vexen

Why does the Christian God allow slavery in the Bible?

But only in the OT not? Getting a son cooled god down.

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20 hours ago, Itoero said:

But only in the OT not? Getting a son cooled god down.

My copy of the New Testament has numerous references to slaves and slavery, and usually admonishes them to obey their masters with fear and trembling. Ephesians 6:5-8 and Colossians 3:22-24 are the first two that come up.

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it was to justify the actions of the people who wrote the bible to be it so it stays accepted or to make them feel better.

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Why does the Christian God allow slavery in the Bible?

 

As was explained to me by Pastor Doug, slavery in the Bible is not like slavery that led to civil rights in the U.S.

A person could become a slave to pay a debt or support themselves financially. They wouldn't be treated like the slaves of the United State's South.

But slavery relates to service. It is important to serve. That would be the meaning in the New Testament. But I admit is does sound confusing in certain verses. I cannot interpret them for you. There would be a reason for the wording, but you would have study it verse by verse.

But don't think because it says slavery it means the way we know it. The Bible is difficult to understand without a knowledgeable person to help put it into context. Often you have to know the history.

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58 minutes ago, Trurl said:

 

As was explained to me by Pastor Doug, slavery in the Bible is not like slavery that led to civil rights in the U.S.

A person could become a slave to pay a debt or support themselves financially. They wouldn't be treated like the slaves of the United State's South.

But slavery relates to service. It is important to serve. That would be the meaning in the New Testament. But I admit is does sound confusing in certain verses. I cannot interpret them for you. There would be a reason for the wording, but you would have study it verse by verse.

But don't think because it says slavery it means the way we know it. The Bible is difficult to understand without a knowledgeable person to help put it into context. Often you have to know the history.

That definition of slavery or "indentured servitude" only applied to Hebrew males.  Anyone else was considered property.  There is even a part dealing with what occurs if a Hebrew man married one of his master's women servants while in his service.  Once he served his term, he was free to leave, but his wife and any children remained with the master.  If he refused to leave them, he would be taken to a doorpost, and have an awl driven through his ear to mark him as his master's slave forever. 

 

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16 minutes ago, Janus said:

That definition of slavery or "indentured servitude" only applied to Hebrew males.  Anyone else was considered property.  There is even a part dealing with what occurs if a Hebrew man married one of his master's women servants while in his service.  Once he served his term, he was free to leave, but his wife and any children remained with the master.  If he refused to leave them, he would be taken to a doorpost, and have an awl driven through his ear to mark him as his master's slave forever. 

 

The non Hebrew slave could also be beaten as long as he didn't die in a day or two.. The non Hebrew slave could also be passed down to the masters children... 

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2 hours ago, Trurl said:

That would be the meaning in the New Testament. But I admit is does sound confusing in certain verses. I cannot interpret them for you. There would be a reason for the wording, but you would have study it verse by verse.

That's dangerous reasoning (or a dangerous lack). It assumes the verses, even when they sound horrific, are automatically benign and well-intentioned. Anyone who wants to manipulate your belief system just has to convince you you haven't studied them extensively enough.

When it continues to sound like God turned a blind eye to His people's slaver-behavior, even though he's supposed to love all people, Pastor Doug has an interpretation that makes it all OK. It's a form of the Begging the Question fallacy. 

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5 hours ago, Trurl said:

 

As was explained to me by Pastor Doug, slavery in the Bible is not like slavery that led to civil rights in the U.S.

A person could become a slave to pay a debt or support themselves financially. They wouldn't be treated like the slaves of the United State's South.

But slavery relates to service. It is important to serve. That would be the meaning in the New Testament. But I admit is does sound confusing in certain verses. I cannot interpret them for you. There would be a reason for the wording, but you would have study it verse by verse.

But don't think because it says slavery it means the way we know it. The Bible is difficult to understand without a knowledgeable person to help put it into context. Often you have to know the history.

This an example of a pastor lying and hoping you won't actually research it. Pastors and apologists have financial incentives to lie about things like this.

As pointed out below, Pastor Doug is conflating two different sets of rules for two different groups of people. The Bible actually does condone slavery as practiced in the US. It even explicitly says you can beat a slave within an inch of their lives so long as they live until morning, because they are your property.

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This an example of a pastor lying and hoping you won't actually research it. Pastors and apologists have financial incentives to lie about things like this.

No Pastor Doug is correct. He is referring to Hebrew slaves. It is my explanation that is wrong.

Christains don't deny bad things happen in the Bible. We are not blindly following the Bible. Nor with good Pastors we are not being lied to. The Old Testament is difficult to understand. The Old Testiment was Hebrew law.

But the question is unanswerable. And no Christian can answer it. But one unanswered question does discredit the Bible.

In my own opinion, the question is not why God allows slavery, but why does Man allow slavery. Why is God or how is God responsible? 

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16 minutes ago, Trurl said:

Why is God or how is God responsible? 

Because He explicitly OKed the practice all the way including sex slavery and beating slaves to within an inch of their lives. Then, in the New Testament, slavery is *still* condoned, so it's not an Old vs New thing

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41 minutes ago, Trurl said:

Why is God or how is God responsible? 

He seems willing to punish us for eternity based on things done before we were born. He judged all human actions based on the first two. He's supposed to be perfect, all-knowing, all-seeing, yet he created us with a flaw he punishes us for. 

A creator seems like a commander in that respect. You're responsible for whatever happens, especially if you already knew it would turn out that way. And who blames their creations for imperfections in the first place? If I make a chair that wobbles, why make the chair responsible? 

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On 3/3/2019 at 2:07 PM, Vexen said:

Exodus chapter 12 verse 43

The Lord said to Moses and Aaron, "These are the regulations for the Passover: No foreigner is to eat of it. Any slave you have bought may eat of it after you have circumcised him, but a temporary resident and a hired worker may not eat of it.

The original post does refer to Pastor Doug's description of slave. This is simply meaning only the Jewish people should participate. Even the slave can eat.

 

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4 hours ago, Phi for All said:

He seems willing to punish us for eternity based on things done before we were born. He judged all human actions based on the first two. He's supposed to be perfect, all-knowing, all-seeing, yet he created us with a flaw he punishes us for. 

A creator seems like a commander in that respect. You're responsible for whatever happens, especially if you already knew it would turn out that way. And who blames their creations for imperfections in the first place? If I make a chair that wobbles, why make the chair responsible? 

Simple enough. This is not a new question. Anyone who reads the Bible will probably ask this. IMHO anything can be ask but there is no easy way to settle the debate. We don't have a way to know why things are the way they are other than history, the Bible, and science. To me it would be like blaming the leader of a country for everything that is wrong in the country. It would also mean we have no choice in our actions which is a whole other debate. But I think what is looked over how important the present is. It isn't like this stuff is just in the past, we are living it.

 

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7 hours ago, Trurl said:

To me it would be like blaming the leader of a country for everything that is wrong in the country.

Not really.  If the 'leader' outlaws murder... then he is not to blame for the murder in the country. If he condones it by giving a list of ways in which murder is 'OK' and the people go around murdering each other in the ways that are 'OK' according to the leader, then the leader is responsible for those murders because he could have just said -'no murder' rather than encouraging it.

 

 

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12 hours ago, Trurl said:

It would also mean we have no choice in our actions which is a whole other debate. 

How does being created evil by a perfect god broaden my choices? I realize faith has little to no reason involved, but the whole free will argument pits our earthly years against eternity, and gives us nebulous, widely interpreted scripture from the Bronze Age to help us decide. And if I decide your religion condones slavery and intolerance and hypocritical behavior, and generally goes against my basic morality, for standing up against that your god wants to roast me forever.

Boo! If your god created me, he made me smarter than that. 

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We can argue back and forth in all good fun. Your believe in some sort of Creator. I guess you just had an experience, maybe science that made you think otherwise. There are Christian scientist. And a lot of scientist believe in creation designed. 

Depeding on your beliefs, they determine how you interpret the Bible. You can apply pure science, but that won't always lead to answers. But to me the answers are found by study and research. Reading the Words in red, I see things that apply to family and relationships with other people. I my opinion if I follow the given examples I will live a more meaningful life. I say a guy interviewed on YouTube that had nothing to do with religion. He had a 160 iq and was living modestly on a farm. The reporters ask him why he wasn't a millionaire and he replied that he lived the way that made him happy.

I don't think we were born evil. But obviously we are imperfect. This thread is just my opinion. But I don't see the Bible's purpose to convert everyone to Christianity. The goal is to present the Word and let the reader decide what it means to them.

Obviosly not everything in the Bible makes sense to me. But neither does every theory in science. But just because I do not understand something make it invalid. 

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1 minute ago, Trurl said:

I guess you just had an experience, maybe science that made you think otherwise.

No, that's the wrong way round. There is no reason that anyone would believe in gods unless they had an experience (being indoctrinated by their parents for example) that made them believe.

6 minutes ago, Trurl said:

But I don't see the Bible's purpose to convert everyone to Christianity. The goal is to present the Word and let the reader decide what it means to them.

If it can mean whatever the reader wants, then it doesn't really mean anything.

7 minutes ago, Trurl said:

Obviosly not everything in the Bible makes sense to me. But neither does every theory in science. But just because I do not understand something make it invalid. 

The difference is that science is based on evidence and can be tested. While your bible is just a collection of stories made up by people a long time ago.

I know which I would trust.

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