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"Microwave five minutes"...

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9 hours ago, Endy0816 said:

???

Mean like when you microwave a frozen meal and some parts can remain cold or even frozen while others overcook.

...and why is it still called weighing if you find the mass?

I misread "spots" as "sports"

We call it weighing because , in most cases that's what we actually do.

 

13 hours ago, Sensei said:

I am weighting e.g. rice, noodles, every time I am cooking them..

 

I have yet to see anyone weighing a potato to work out how long to microwave it for.
On a related note, I boil pasta/ rice/ noodles  for about 12 minutes (or whatever). It doesn't matter if I'm boiling 1 portion or 4.

Edited by John Cuthber

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Couldn't resist add some less serious comments ...

17 minutes ago, John Cuthber said:

I have yet to see anyone weighing a potato to work out how long to microwave it for.

My micro has knob for weight instead of time, here's a nice example, fine tuned for a potato*. 

200g.png.19dffc39e014526f352dfeea05258d42.png

But of course you are still correct, I don't weight the potato because I need to know how long to microwave it for. :-) 
I wonder how reliable the settings actually are; I belong to the 99% of the population that only use the max-power setting.

 

*) Note: I prefer peeled potatoes, so I peel mine to exactly matches the precision available on the micro (200g, 225g ... etc ) instead of the high precision shopping suggested in earlier posts above.  :-)

 

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31 minutes ago, Ghideon said:

*) Note: I prefer peeled potatoes, so I peel mine to exactly matches the precision available on the micro (200g, 225g ... etc ) instead of the high precision shopping suggested in earlier posts above.  :-)

 

High precision, that's a laugh.

You weigh the potato in the cool greengrocery area of the supermarket and then take the potato to the overheated till area, where some of the mositure in the tuber evaporates, changing its weight.

:)

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7 minutes ago, studiot said:

 

High precision, that's a laugh.

You weigh the potato in the cool greengrocery area of the supermarket and then take the potato to the overheated till area, where some of the mositure in the tuber evaporates, changing its weight.

:)

Actually, he weighs it just before he cooks it.
Obviously, the water content of the spud- which is variable- will affect the cooking properties.
I'm still wondering  if Sensei boils 200 grams of rice for twice as long as he boils 100 grams.

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10 minutes ago, John Cuthber said:

Actually, he weighs it just before he cooks it.

Perhaps, but mine is a better story.

10 minutes ago, John Cuthber said:

I'm still wondering  if Sensei boils 200 grams of rice for twice as long as he boils 100 grams.

He shouldn't.
According to my supplied instructions (courtesy Toshiba) you add 50% extra cooking time for each doubling of a portion.

Or perhaps that was for one of their nuclear reactors.

I'm not sure now. I mix them up with microwaves all the time.

 

:)

Edited by studiot

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If I'm microwaving a potato, I put it on full for 5 mins, take it out, squeeze and add anything up to another 5 mins depending on that test.  :)

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2 hours ago, John Cuthber said:

I misread "spots" as "sports"

We call it weighing because , in most cases that's what we actually do.

lol I'm sure it's just for historical reasons but it sure sounds weird. Weighing is finding weight, a measure of force.

ie. I weigh 130 pounds or about 578 Newtons.

11 hours ago, Strange said:

You know that's partly because of standing waves? (Which is way they added rotating turntables.) And you can use that to measure the speed of light?

Good point. If you are cooking up a mountain, you need to be sure you are measuring the mass and not the weight, as well as accounting for the change in boiling point.

 I remember hearing bits of the explanation at one point, though would still happen regularly.

Edited by Endy0816

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2 hours ago, studiot said:

High precision, that's a laugh.

I have weight with +-0.01 gram precision, just in case somebody would like to measure potatoes up to 200.00 g+-0.01g precision.. ;)

Weight.thumb.jpg.6a39c6d5fc04a107350cd4f57231ee8c.jpg

2 hours ago, John Cuthber said:

I'm still wondering  if Sensei boils 200 grams of rice for twice as long as he boils 100 grams. 

I am leaving rice till the all water sink in it. It's dehydrated rice from Tesco.

2 hours ago, studiot said:

He shouldn't.
According to my supplied instructions (courtesy Toshiba) you add 50% extra cooking time for each doubling of a portion. 

That depends on how much of water we have in the pot. e.g. there is 1) ~500 mL of water and 100 g dehydrated rice, and 2) ~500 mL of water and 200 g of dehydrated rice. After 20 minutes of boiling I am leaving rice till the all/majority of water is absorbed. Then flushing it in cold water, so rice doesn't stick together.

 

Edited by Sensei

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8 hours ago, Sensei said:

That depends on how much of water we have in the pot. e.g. there is 1) ~500 mL of water and 100 g dehydrated rice, and 2) ~500 mL of water and 200 g of dehydrated rice. After 20 minutes of boiling I am leaving rice till the all/majority of water is absorbed. Then flushing it in cold water, so rice doesn't stick together.

You should measure the water accurately as well.

For rice to accompany savour dishes add  between 1.8 and 2.0 times the volume of the dry rice grains.

For rice pudding add up to 2.4 times the volume of milk, depending upon desired final consistency.

Edited by studiot

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9 minutes ago, studiot said:

You should measure the water accurately as well.

For rice to accompany savour dishes add  between 1.8 and 2.0 times the volume of the dry rice grains.

Or, roughly 1.9 times.

I suppose this could be the basis for a discussion of the difference between accuracy and precision?

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21 hours ago, Sensei said:

I have weight with +-0.01 gram precision, just in case somebody would like to measure potatoes up to 200.00 g+-0.01g precision

That's interesting, what value do you use for the density of the potato and air?

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On 1/23/2019 at 4:52 AM, Endy0816 said:

???

Mean like when you microwave a frozen meal and some parts can remain cold or even frozen while others overcook.

...and why is it still called weighing if you find the mass?

If you are on earth it’s the same thing right?  Assuming you aren’t on a merry go round or something.

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4 hours ago, Nod2003 said:

If you are on earth it’s the same thing right?  Assuming you aren’t on a merry go round or something.

Weight is mass multiplied by the local gravitational acceleration. So as mass increases, weight increases; but they remain two different things.

To bring things back to cooking, a recipe written in terms of mass can be used anywhere in the Universe with no additional math.

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4 hours ago, Nod2003 said:

If you are on earth it’s the same thing right?  Assuming you aren’t on a merry go round or something.

There two classes of unit systems, absolute and gravitational.    So for example, there are two MKS systems.*   With absolute MKS units, Mass is measured in kg and force in newtons, and in gravitational MKS units, force is measured in kg and there is no named unit for mass.   So when we weigh something in kilograms, we are measuring kgf .  Now using a standard g, 1 kgm has a weight of 9.80665 newtons in the absolute system.  Converting between the absolute and gravitational MKS systems, 9.80665 newtons = 1kgf.  So in a way, 1kgm weighs 1 kgf on the Earth, but this is actually using two different dimensional units from two different systems, just like when you say that 1kg weighs 2.20462 lbs

The subscripts are implicit even when not included.

* there are 3 different FPS systems.  With the absolute, force is measured in pounds and mass in slugs. With the gravitational, force is measured in poundals and mass in pounds.  Then there is the American engineering system where pounds is used for both force and mass; lbf and lbm.  Something else that distinguishes this system from the others is that both lbf and lbm are considered fundamental dimensions,  while in the other systems one or the other are "derived" dimensions ( for example, in the absolute MKS system, kgm is the fundamental unit and newtons are derived as kg-m/s2.)

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Posted (edited)
On 1/20/2019 at 7:21 AM, Externet said:

To start, 'microwave' is not a verb, but less bad than 'nuke'.  And irradiate sounds weird.

To the point, the  'five minutes'   <but your microwave power can vary, so adjust the time accordingly>

Should it properly be instead of a timer, a Joules counter/setting dial ?  Or Kilowatts-minute  ?

Could it lead to better recipes instead of the imprecise legacy?  A tree that grew crooked, crooked stays.  No 'irradiate 200 Joules'  setting to your yesterday pizza? :rolleyes:

Excuse me while I irradiate my steak... lol

You could be right where properly cooking your food is regarded but essentially, appliances such as microwaves are sold to a public that lives minute to minute, counting their minutes and swiftly going somewhere with their eyes pasted to their wrist watches. Likewise, traditional stoves operate on temperature, not watts or joules, and if those knobs were replaced with a wattage dial then many a dinner would get burnt. Knowing your microwave well would be your best choice and besides, how great can a microwave dinner be anyways? 

On 1/20/2019 at 7:45 AM, Externet said:

..."keep re-trying until it is hot."  Because time is a wrong setting ? And hot means nothing, as hot for you may be warm for others ?

Human heat tolerances are largely identicle. Rare cases may vary more widely than average. My "too hot" is probably nearly the same as your "too hot". But no matter what our tolerance differences are, boiling water will hurt anyone.

On 1/20/2019 at 7:48 AM, Strange said:

The "language regulating entity" is the population who use the language. Dictionaries record that usage. 

In most countries dictionaries come second to the spoken language but in some countries like Germany and France, language is forced and often words are invented by the ruling class before being commonly used by the populations. Germany will often change the meaning of words without notice and strike words from their lexicon without public approval. France has nearly scientifically strict language rules which are hardily maintained by high class linguists. English on the other hand is an open source whore that anyone can modify and morph, which is probably why its so widespread with as many dialects and versions as it has.

On 1/20/2019 at 7:48 AM, iNow said:

We live in a world where people are eating Tide pods.

You can't be serious. Why would anyone want to eat a Tide pod?

On 1/22/2019 at 2:31 PM, Endy0816 said:

Physics are really different with cold and hot spots being possible.

Yes, that's another variable that would be a hurdle to your joules idea since every microwave has a different cold spot location, even two microwaves of the same model.

On 1/23/2019 at 1:33 PM, Ghideon said:

 

200g.png.19dffc39e014526f352dfeea05258d42.png 

 

I don't know why but this photo is captivating and I had to stare at it for a minute.

Edited by Art Man

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8 hours ago, Art Man said:

You can't be serious. Why would anyone want to eat a Tide pod?

Indeed. Consider yourself lucky if you're not familiar with the outcry about this in the past few years

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On 1/23/2019 at 4:05 PM, John Cuthber said:

 I have yet to see anyone weighing a potato to work out how long to microwave it for.

On a related note, I boil pasta/ rice/ noodles  for about 12 minutes (or whatever). It doesn't matter if I'm boiling 1 portion or 4.

Boiling to cook is heat transfer. Using microwaves is work, from a thermodynamic standpoint. The former reaches steady-state, the latter does not.

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Why this outcry about microwave ovens ???

A regular stove/oven, whether electric or gas, has graduated settings between Hi and Low heat, and a timer.
You need an add-on meat thermometer to find out the internal temperature of meats you are cooking ( to your liking ).
You need to taste your pastas to ensure the right 'firmness'.
You need to 'flake' your fish with a fork to cook it properly.
Vegetables should only be boiled less than a minute to ensure crispness.
Etc.

That's what cooking is about.
Not setting and go.

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6 hours ago, iNow said:

Indeed. Consider yourself lucky if you're not familiar with the outcry about this in the past few years

Completely oblivious. That does however explain 2 bags of missing Tide pods in 2018, happens to be what I use to wash laundry.

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7 hours ago, swansont said:

Boiling to cook is heat transfer. Using microwaves is work, from a thermodynamic standpoint. The former reaches steady-state, the latter does not.

OK, what about a conventional oven?

It's  common for that to be set well above 100C.

So, if the food reached equilibrium, all the water would be boiled off and the food would be almost charcoal.

Does that mean I should bake 4 spuds for 4 times longer than I bake 1?

 

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1 hour ago, John Cuthber said:

OK, what about a conventional oven?

It's  common for that to be set well above 100C.

So, if the food reached equilibrium, all the water would be boiled off and the food would be almost charcoal.

It doesn’t reach equilibrium. In baking you often are done when the internal temperature reaches a certain value, rather than equilibrium. Sous vide cooking is kind of in the middle.

 

1 hour ago, John Cuthber said:

Does that mean I should bake 4 spuds for 4 times longer than I bake 1?

No. 

As I suspect you know, heat transfer means the energy transfer depends on the temperature difference.  You maintain a constant ambient temperature, so the heat transfer rate is the same (assuming identical spuds*). The thermostat turns the oven on and off to maintain the temperature. What you would find is that the oven is powered at a greater duty cycle if the mass you’re cooking is larger.

 

*if not, the smaller ones would tend to be done faster.

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Fundamentally, in a world where we need to warn people that coffee is hot when you have heated it, I don't think we are going to succeed in getting people to calculate cooking times for their potatoes from a heat capacity and mass.

 

I still want know what density Sensei assumes for air and potatoes.

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