Raider5678

Dropping out of highschool

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10 minutes ago, MigL said:

Don't make the mistake of rushing your youth.

Frankly, I can't argue against that. That being said, I've enjoyed working more then I've enjoyed high school. 

2 minutes ago, zapatos said:

if I'm reading this correctly, he can't count on a lot of financial support from family.

Correct.

Maybe I should have put a poll.

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We are in two differing frames of reference...

You are looking at your school years as something to get through, to get to where you want to be.
I look at them as some of the best years of my life, and they helped shape who I am today.

Just something to consider.

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2 minutes ago, MigL said:

We are in two differing frames of reference...

You are looking at your school years as something to get through, to get to where you want to be.
I look at them as some of the best years of my life, and they helped shape who I am today.

Just something to consider.

I've spent hours probably amounting to months of time simple researching things, studying them, and learning. Space, Engineering, Physics, Math, History, Politics, Psychology, and more. I can't help but think back to the people who told me I should spend less time doing that and spend more time making friends, experiencing and enjoying life, and doing fun things. All that studying though allowed me to have opportunities that were unheard of in my small town. It allowed me to travel the country, to speak Nasa engineers, to get high paying jobs outside of the typical job that people in my area get, and more. I make more part time (about 16 hours a week) then most people in my valley make working full time, and I can attribute almost all of that to, in other people's words, "Throwing away my child hood" spending it on stupid things such as learning how to computer program, not in just one language, but 4 of them. I ignored that advice at the time and I'm extremely pleased with the position I'm in now and the people who told me I was wasting my time are pushing their kids to do what I did in the hopes that maybe their kids won't be stuck with the same types of jobs they're stuck with 40 years down the line. I'm lucky enough to have been able to pick which job offer I wanted. I love my job, and most of the people in my valley live for the weekends. 

I can't help envision a similar scenario here. I'm not saying you made bad choices when you were young, but I am saying that I don't think we'd enjoy the same experiences. 

 

Additionally, everything I've learned has helped shape me into who I am today, and I truly believe that differing experiences don't automatically yield better or worse outcomes. Maybe your social life experiences yielded good outcomes. But my anti-social life experiences have yielded good outcomes in my opinion as well. 

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19 minutes ago, Raider5678 said:

I feel as though there is a major difference between dropping out of high school because I don't want to stick it out, as compared to dropping out of high school, getting a GED and a full time job, and then pursuing a college degree.

This isn’t rocket science, raider. 

When I have one job to fill and a hundred resumes on my desk, your reasons for dropping out are too insignificant for me to care.

I’ve got five minutes to make a five year decision and all I see is, “he dropped out.” Not worth the risk... Next! Moving on to the other 99 who don’t share such flaws. Diamonds in the rough are great, but too rare to bother, too short on time to find them.

To be clear... College recruiters aren’t much different, except they sift through thousands of applications to fill only a few scores or university seats.  

I think you agree with me. I think you already know this and that’s why you opened this thread. 

High school sucks. So what? Man up and finish. 

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hey-- you asked for viewpoints and you got mine-- no harm.  It really is your decision and nobody else's.  The important thing is that  you don't let it lead to a case of short-term gratification that leads to long-term regret.  Only you can decide.  Regardless of which way you go, good luck!

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6 minutes ago, iNow said:

This isn’t rocket science, raider. 

When I have one job to fill and a hundred resumes on my desk, your reasons for dropping out are too insignificant for me to care.

I’ve got five minutes to make a five year decision and all I see is, “he dropped out.” Not worth the risk... Next! Moving on to the other 99 who don’t share such flaws. Diamonds in the rough are great, but too rare to bother, too short on time to find them.

To be clear... College recruiters aren’t much different, except they sift through thousands of applications to fill only a few scores or university seats.  

I think you agree with me. I think you already know this and that’s why you opened this thread. 

High school sucks. So what? Man up and finish. 

And this is the major type of anti dropping out argument I'd like to explore.

 

Is the stigma against a GED worth taking on in exchange for an additional 1.5 years of going to college early and having a full time job? Obviously, I'm assuming your answer is no.

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5 minutes ago, iNow said:

This isn’t rocket science, raider. 

When I have one job to fill and a hundred resumes on my desk, your reasons for dropping out are too insignificant for me to care.

I’ve got five minutes to make a five year decision and all I see is, “he dropped out.” Not worth the risk... Next! Moving on to the other 99 who don’t share such flaws. Diamonds in the rough are great, but too rare to bother, too short on time to find them.

To be clear... College recruiters aren’t much different, except they sift through thousands of applications to fill only a few scores or university seats.  

I think you agree with me. I think you already know this and that’s why you opened this thread. 

High school sucks. So what? Man up and finish. 

I assume you looking at resumes for people who do not have a college degree.

When I was in college my jobs were what I considered low end. None of the jobs I had were based on the quality of my resume. Come to think of it, I'm not sure I had a resume. My point being that if your plan is a college degree, having a resume that shows your quality high school achievements is not worth much. Once you have a college degree, no one cares about high school. It is the quality of your resume starting with college that matters.

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No, I don’t hire people without a high school diploma. I don’t hire people without a college degree, either. I rarely hire anyone with less than 10 years of experience, for that matter.

I think there is a massive opportunity for us to improve our education system. 

I think too often we teach kids to memorize nonsense for tests instead of understanding concepts for life. 

I think we focus on (to borrow from Seth Godin) teaching kids too often to collect dots instead of teaching kids to connect dots, and I think we over rely on the SAT and various other similarly checked boxes. 

But I also think that until we change the system and until we rewrite the rules of the game, we must still do everything possible to maximize our chances within those rules.

It’s basic game theory. Thinking the system is flawed doesn’t mean ignoring it helps us win. Reading on paper that a GED is equivalent to a diploma doesn’t mean that in practice it is. 

Mine’s just one opinion among many, but I say... Just put the god damned work in and get it done. The treadmill of life is fast enough already, so don’t intentionally handicap yourself and make it even harder to keep up if you can avoid it. 

Get the piece of paper. Put it behind you. It makes everything later SOOOO much easier, and later is when you begin to finally appreciate things being a bit easier. 

Cheers. 

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10 minutes ago, iNow said:

No, I don’t hire people without a high school diploma. I don’t hire people without a college degree, either. I rarely hire anyone with less than 10 years of experience, for that matter.

What I was getting at was that if someone has a college degree, do you have any idea whether they have a high school diploma or a GED? I've never seen a high school listed on a resume that included a college degree. And if you don't know if they have a diploma or a GED, then why does it matter?

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A fair point, Zap. Don’t disagree.

I’ve just seen too many folks close to me plan on the GED then college route and not ever reach either destination. It’s so easy to give up a 2nd time once you’ve done it a 1st time.

As I’m sure is quite clear by now, I’m an advocate of not giving up that first time. 

I wouldn’t want it for my kids. I don’t want it for raider. I also respect whatever decision he makes and sincerely wish him the best.

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19 minutes ago, iNow said:

I’ve just seen too many folks close to me plan on the GED then college route and not ever reach either destination.

I like articulate planning, which is one of the reasons I'd be willing to take the risk of dropping out of high school. Even to me the idea sounds risky, and I understand full and well that for a period of time, a GED is going to seem worse then a high school diploma.

That being said, I know what online college I'd attend, I know which credits I'd go for, I know exactly how much they cost and I also know that with the money I've been saving up for years, I could afford it as well. The in between step is figuring out if the better option is waiting 1.5 years for high school to end, or getting my GED and going ahead to do it now.

I don't see high school as work. I've never struggled with school that I can remember. I don't remember spending hours studying, I remember doing brief reviews of things I already knew. It's not that I'm not willing to do the "god damned work" to get that piece of paper, it's deciding if waiting patiently is the better option.

The option to get a GED wasn't available until I turned 16 and my school counselor suggested the option. That was in October. I've thought for quite a while about what my motives are, and it's not to avoid work. I have a plan, I've done my research, and now it's weighing the pros and cons of either option.

As of now, the major cons to doing this are more then the pro's, but that doesn't necessarily mean they'll outweigh each other.

Specifically, focusing on me dropping out. I don't think even you think I would have made a bad decision if I drop out, get my GED, and then get my college degree. Your concern is that I won't follow through. So, building off of that.

If I drop out to get my GED, several consequences would be:

  1. I wouldn't get to experience as much of a youth "social life." (Migl)
  2. It doesn't look as good on my resume until I get a college degree.(Basically everyone)
  3. There is a chance I'll get caught up in work or something and not get my GED.(iNow)
  4. There is a chance I won't pursue a college education for various reasons, even if I do get my GED.(iNow)
  5. I won't get to experience as many options in terms of careers.(OldChem)
  6. There are very few benefits to getting a GED instead of a Diploma.

Several benefits if I successfully get my GED would be:

  1. I would save 1.5 years of my life that I don't feel like I wasted sitting through classes for 8 hours a day that I don't learn from.
  2. I could save basically an entire year and a half of income from my full time job because I no longer have to go to school. Significant amount of money to start with.

And a benefit if I get my college degree in the time frame as well would be:

  1. I get a college degree much sooner then my peers, when they all start graduating high school. 'm already slated to graduate a year early, this would essentially increase that gap by 1.5 years, meaning I have a 2.5 year advantage on my peers. So, assuming I kept with the time frame, I could have a college degree by the time they have a high school diploma, giving me a competitive edge in terms of getting a job.

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Whatever you choose, I hope things work out well for you, Raider.

All everyone here is telling you, is to keep all options available and don't close any doors.
Finishing High School gives you many more options than not.

Keep in mind that the yardstick you are using to measure your life's successes is short ( you're what, 17 yrs old ? ).
I hope you have no regrets when that yardstick is 50 yrs long.

( unfortunately everyone has regrets; I don't regret not getting married, but I do regret not having kids )

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7 hours ago, MigL said:

Don't make the mistake of rushing your youth.

Some people's youth is a terrible time, and i don't mean the usual teenage angst. Less a a case of rushing it, more like just surviving it. If the option to escape it is there, take it.

@Raider5678 I don't know the US system so can't offer any practical advice. From what others say it seems the biggest risk is that you won't be gaining a safety net. If you've also lost other safety nets (friends and family) then the risk is even bigger. But your attitude is the most important thing: if you can keep your determination and avoid many of the traps life has to offer i'm sure you can follow your own path. Good luck.

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9 hours ago, MigL said:

Finishing High School gives you many more options than not.

Specifically, what options?

9 hours ago, MigL said:

don't close any doors.

The problem with either choice is that I'm closing doors. I'm choosing which ones I want to keep open.

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1 hour ago, Raider5678 said:

The problem with either choice is that I'm closing doors. I'm choosing which ones I want to keep open..

1

That's the problem with a polarised attitude, one doesn't know which is which...

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1 hour ago, Raider5678 said:

The problem with either choice is that I'm closing doors. I'm choosing which ones I want to keep open.

Well if you follow the title of the thread I guess the doors you will keep open are fast food doors as you great the customers. - Yes, I think I will have fries with that :).
Jokes aside, don't drop out of highschool. What you do after is debatable but most people would agree that you should finish it.

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15 minutes ago, Silvestru said:

Well if you follow the title of the thread I guess the doors you will keep open are fast food doors as you great the customers. - Yes, I think I will have fries with that :).
Jokes aside, don't drop out of highschool. What you do after is debatable but most people would agree that you should finish it.

2
3

That's the other side of the door if you want to be a builder.

Edited by dimreepr

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57 minutes ago, Silvestru said:

Well if you follow the title of the thread I guess the doors you will keep open are fast food doors as you great the customers.

If I drop out of high school and get my GED I'll have a job as a full time software engineer at 16.

Why does everyone keep acting as though if I drop out of high school I'll suddenly be fired from the company that wants me to do so, and then end up working at some menial job? 

 

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12 hours ago, Raider5678 said:

Several benefits if I successfully get my GED would be:

  1. I would save 1.5 years of my life that I don't feel like I wasted sitting through classes for 8 hours a day that I don't learn from.
  2. I could save basically an entire year and a half of income from my full time job because I no longer have to go to school. Significant amount of money to start with.

And a benefit if I get my college degree in the time frame as well would be:

  1. I get a college degree much sooner then my peers, when they all start graduating high school. 'm already slated to graduate a year early, this would essentially increase that gap by 1.5 years, meaning I have a 2.5 year advantage on my peers. So, assuming I kept with the time frame, I could have a college degree by the time they have a high school diploma, giving me a competitive edge in terms of getting a job.

Let's talk about that for a bit. Having a degree a few years earlier makes basically no difference for competitiveness for a job. If anything, being too young could worry some people (whether that is fair or not is a different matter). You also mentioned that you are going for an online degree. 

I hope it is from an established university that also offers an online program (rather than an entire online university)? Even then,  those degrees can have you at an disadvantage compared to peers. Regardless, you should inform yourself about admission, as GED are not perceived or even handled the same way as traditional GPAs for admission purposes.

You mentioned that you cannot afford a physical college. You may want to look into scholarships. Technically, a GED does not hurt that much as it is associated with non-traditional paths (e.g. if one had to drop out due to financial reasons) but that does not apply in your case.

In the end, what I see is that you make things rather more difficult for yourself with little tangible benefits (i.e. getting out faster is not giving you an competitive edge). The only reason where I see this path to be useful if either a) you immediately get accepted into (ideally prestigious and funded) a college program, or b) have a certain career path laid out that you can leverage. But from your description alone that seems to be uncertain.

 

Edit: the only thing in question that I would see is whether the company you are looking to work for has a future career path for you and support you getting a college degree. Things that you keep in mind, are things like how likely is it that the company will keep you for the next 5-10 years, are there any advancement paths, what are hard limits in improving your position within the time period. A startup, for example would riskier than an established company. Certain positions internally are less stable than others etc.

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17 minutes ago, CharonY said:

Edit: the only thing in question that I would see is whether the company you are looking to work for has a future career path for you and support you getting a college degree. Things that you keep in mind, are things like how likely is it that the company will keep you for the next 5-10 years, are there any advancement paths, what are hard limits in improving your position within the time period. A startup, for example would riskier than an established company. Certain positions internally are less stable than others etc.

They were looking into sending me to a college for 6 weeks to get six sigma training, but that required me to have a GED. Other then that, I don't know if they have any college degree's in mind.

In terms of career advancement, the head software developer is looking to retire in 4-5 years, and he's the guy they've had me "shadowing" for quite some time now(More like having me meet with him regularly to learn from him). From what the boss has told me, they're thinking to transfer me from where I currently work to a different position directly under him, which is a position that doesn't exist yet. It's speculation, but I think I'm in a position to assume his duties should I get that position. That being said, I'm also not the only candidate and I can't assume that position while still attending high school. 

Edited by Raider5678

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Just now, Raider5678 said:

They were looking into sending me to a college for 6 weeks to get six sigma training, but that required me to have a GED. Other then that, I don't know if they have any college degree's in mind.

If at all possible (and depending on your paygrade and how much they want you) I would try to negotiate an option for obtaining a degree while you work for them. That increases your value for them and also shows some level of commitment to you from their side. If they do not fund it entirely, even making allowances for part-time study could be an option.

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Just now, CharonY said:

If at all possible (and depending on your paygrade and how much they want you) I would try to negotiate an option for obtaining a degree while you work for them. That increases your value for them and also shows some level of commitment to you from their side.

Alright. I'll look into this. I've never negotiated with an employer before actually, I've never felt a need to. I can see where it would come in handy here though.

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Just now, Raider5678 said:

Alright. I'll look into this. I've never negotiated with an employer before actually, I've never felt a need to. I can see where it would come in handy here though.

Essentially you can phrase it like this: dropping out and getting a GED is a big commitment from you for the company. Are they willing in investing in you, too (as opposed to getting young and cheap workers on the desk).

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6 minutes ago, CharonY said:

Essentially you can phrase it like this: dropping out and getting a GED is a big commitment from you for the company. Are they willing in investing in you, too (as opposed to getting young and cheap workers on the desk).

This is the approach I was thinking of.

I was also thinking that if they wanted me to do this, then at the very least I have some kind of written promise(I don't know if I can get a contract about this?) that if I get my GED within a certain time frame I get the job as well.

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1 hour ago, Raider5678 said:

This is the approach I was thinking of.

I was also thinking that if they wanted me to do this, then at the very least I have some kind of written promise(I don't know if I can get a contract about this?) that if I get my GED within a certain time frame I get the job as well.

There are various options but one of the things that you should consider is that without something written it is not worth much (or at least difficult to enforce). Also note that there seems to be bit a of a fair bit of uncertainty of employment. Even if someone suggested possible employment, without an offer letter it is again not worth much. And certainly not to take the risk that you are considering. 

With regard to employer-funded education, there are several somewhat common options. These include a type of scholarship/partnership with universities. These are typically offered by larger companies and/or local companies with ties to the university. Then there are scholarship as part of benefits. Other companies offer a reimbursement plan for education-related costs. Another option is basically the equivalent of a paid leave. I.e. you get paid full hours but are allowed to take a number of courses essentially on company time. There may be more options but these are the ones I heard most often among students.

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