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How to say the right amount in posts.


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Why is it that many threads do not proceed smoothly simply because posters (particularly the Original Poster) say either too little or far too much in their opening and subsequent posts?

What advice can be given to achieve the right length of post?

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Some people don't care and want to troll. Some are kids that just want a quick answer as a short cut for their HW.  Look at this RBVFRTY guy and his many incarnations - he asks questions so broad you can write a book in reply. There is no interaction or response beyond further similar styled questions in reply to any answer or request to be more specific. I can't work out if he is genuinely wanting help and is a young person at school or a disgruntled past member trying to troll/time waste....  then he starts a new thread with a closely related question that could have addressed in his first one.....  after 4 or 5 questions he opens a new account and starts again...  it's like troll spam.   Maybe I am being too harsh on him - maybe he is just very young and wants to ask random questions about rockets. Then there are those that just want to lecture/rant about their opinions on science and reality and to tell us all how things are from their own deluded perceptions. I think that the serious threads and the serious questioners probably get it right or are helped and tolerated if they are trying to learn.   You are a lot more active (and helpful) here than me so maybe you see more of it or it effects you more as you are a regular helper of people.  

mods- sorry - I know we aren't supposed to talk about sock puppeteers in threads - but it seemed relevant to the conversation.

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1 hour ago, studiot said:

Why is it that many threads do not proceed smoothly simply because posters (particularly the Original Poster) say either too little or far too much in their opening and subsequent posts?

What advice can be given to achieve the right length of post?

If you are thinking of the recent set of posts on rockets (and similar posts in the past by the same person under multiple names) then I assume they are deliberately trolling. (I did wonder about the "very young" option that DrP suggests, but I would expect more engagement in that case. Maybe very young and autistic? But it doesn't "feel" like the right explanation - we have plenty of members on the autistic spectrum who engage well in discussions.)

If people are serious but ask a question that is too brief, then the only solution is to ask for more details or clarification. That usually works, although some people don't find it easy to organise their thoughts well to ask good questions, so it can take some iterations to get to what they are really asking (a background in customer support helps!)

People who post too much are often a bigger problem. Trying to get them to précis or even identify the key point can just lead to another equally long screed. 

Related: I used to be a member of Stack Exchange and answered lots of questions there. But I got fed up with the non-stop snobbery about "the wrong sort of question" or "questions that attract the wrong sort of answer" and so I deleted my account. If you think down-votes are a problem here, they are like a disease on Stack Exchange! 

Edited by Strange
Spellin
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54 minutes ago, DrP said:

 mods- sorry - I know we aren't supposed to talk about sock puppeteers in threads - but it seemed relevant to the conversation.

I think that since trollers (and the sockpuppet family tree in question falls into that category) are by their very nature not being sincere, they are probably a poor example to use in terms of proper posting style and etiquette.

 

51 minutes ago, Strange said:

 If people are serious but ask a question that is too brief, then the only solution is to ask for more details or clarification. That usually works, although some people don't find it easy to organise their thoughts well to ask good questions, so it can take some iterations to get to what they are really asking (a background in customer support helps!)

I agree. 

If one has some experience in these matters one might be able to identify a misconception at play, but otherwise it may take some effort to tease out the real issue that they want to discuss.

51 minutes ago, Strange said:

People who post too much are often a bigger problem. Trying to get them to precisely or even identify the key point can just lead to another equally long screed. 

Agree again. This is a huge issue when there is an error (often more than one) early on in the thinking, but the OP only wants to discuss the conclusion rather than the premises it's based on.

51 minutes ago, Strange said:

Related: I used to be a member of Stack Exchange and answered lots of questions there. But I got fed up with the non-stop snobbery about "the wrong sort of question" or "questions that attract the wrong sort of answer" and so I deleted my account. 

That happens to some extent here, though I don't know if I'd characterize it as snobbery at SFN. This medium does not lend itself to certain types of questions. "Teach me all there is to know about neutrinos" is an example of "Go Google it" because it's asking a lot for people to type in a page of info when that info already exists elsewhere, and is easily found with a search engine. It smacks of laziness, on top of the hubris that someone should devote that much time to them. And "the wrong sort of answer" sounds like stuff we'd trash; crackpot/pet theory responses are OT (and specifically called out in the rules as such). We certainly tolerate discussion that other sites do not, in our Speculations section.

   

 

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1 hour ago, swansont said:

 ...We certainly tolerate discussion that other sites do not, in our Speculations section.

That's what I like about this this site: it''s flexible around the edges to accommodate neophytes but it has a hardcore centre with people like yourself that fully understand the principles of scientific enquiry  to keep it grounded and can do it without your head being stuck up your backside. :)  The snobbery and aloofness of some sites is not amenable to disseminating science to the masses and just want to sing to the choir. I find some good answers on StackExchange et al but I wouldn't join them.

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4 hours ago, studiot said:

What advice can be given to achieve the right length of post?

Trolls, crackpots, etc. will ignore any such advice, so you're just wasting time thinking about it..

I like particulars, given straight away, without over bloated and cloudy introductions. Straight to the point. I noticed it's hard for humanists who think about themselves as intellectuals. They want to write entire essay (usually about subject they have no idea about)..

If post is too lengthy, thread is too large, I am simply ignoring it. And I am advising it to you too.

Get e.g. Arduino, try making some device e.g. remote controlled irrigation for your home plants (the thing that will save you even more time every day), or whatever instead.

 

Edited by Sensei
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A few issues dictate how active a thread is. Post length in the OP is only one relevant factor.

In general, try to convey thoughts concisely, but with enough detail that context is clear. Too much detail or too lengthy a post may reduce those who fully read it. I'm often on my mobile and have kids running around me or am running through an airport. Too long a post is too much of a pain in the ass to bother with. Balance.

The other is topic. Some topics lend themselves to easy answers, others are more controversial. As sad as it is, it's the controversial threads that generate the most heat and activity. It's like a tennis match. If the server tosses an ace, it's a super quick match. However, if a volley starts, a single game can last hours... same in these discussions. Depends on how much volleying is going on.

Then, there are threads without a clear correct answer, threads where personal opinions are welcome and equally valid (like in politics). These often go back and forth (volleying again) for tens of pages because people are generally just repeating their opinions and there's no easy way to show them one is right while the other is wrong.

Back to your question on length: Try to summarize your thoughts as if you're typing / reading them on a mobile phone. If clarification is needed, you can always add more detail later. Give the executive summary or the "elevator version" where you can convey the important bits successfully during a ride on an elevator (or a "lift" if you're across the pond).

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Super-long into posts either have way too much setup to get to the punchline (and that setup is typically wrong, or at least uninformed), or the post tries to address multiple issues all at once, which makes a mess of the replies. But you can sometimes just scroll to the end where they finally ask their question. If it's some pet theory, you can find some early premise to attack and not bother with the later material, if it's based on some faulty notion.

Or just skip it entirely. Participation is voluntary.

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8 hours ago, Strange said:

If you are thinking of the recent set of posts on rockets (and similar posts in the past by the same person under multiple names) then I assume they are deliberately trolling.

Some people certainly come to science forums to troll with little or no interest in science.

Quote

If people are serious but ask a question that is too brief, then the only solution is to ask for more details or clarification.

Quote

People who post too much are often a bigger problem. Trying to get them to précis or even identify the key point can just lead to another equally long screed. 

Both statements true...I prefer though to ask someone who has been too brief in asking a question, for more clarification, then to sort through some muddled and lengthy confusing text, that seems more times then not, to have some sort of agenda at its core. 

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  • 3 months later...
On 10/18/2018 at 7:02 AM, studiot said:

Why is it that many threads do not proceed smoothly simply because posters (particularly the Original Poster) say either too little or far too much in their opening and subsequent posts?

What advice can be given to achieve the right length of post?

Perhaps this is all in the eye or mouth of the beholder?   What gift of patience have you been given?  Whether you have a tummy ache on any given day?  Whether you agree or disagree after reading several words and declaring NONSENSE so that the rest of whatever was written is superfluous?  How much time are you willing to dedicate to any question?  What is your favourite flavour of ice cream and do you have time to go to the store and get some or is this long sentence interfering with my addiction to chocolate ripple space time effects meandering through the coconut cream light matter?  Smoothly?  A higher speed blender with sharper blades perhaps?  Or do the physics of dull blades smashing into matter create more particles than sharp blades slicing through anti-matter?   Gosh.  Is good smooth or lumpy?  Does best come in a waxed cardboard carton or plastic tub?   

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