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jajrussel

What scriptures?

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1 hour ago, Eise said:

-1 for evading and irrationality.

Tell us what you found: how do you prepare for the youngest day? The way that Jesus said, or the way Paul said? Who of the two is right, and why? Or don't you prepare at all, even that Jesus and Paul both mention the youngest day several times? 

 

John 14:6 King James Version (KJV)

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Romans 1:20 King James Version (KJV)

 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

1 Timothy 4:10

10For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

Revelation 7:14

And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

1 Corinthians 14:37

If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

Along with those things I learned that the entire King James Bible is true from first word to last, from the Alpha to the Omega.   I learned there are possibly other perfect translations in the English language, as well as other languages, but I can't testify to them.

Edited by coffeesippin
included last two entries

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54 minutes ago, coffeesippin said:

 

John 14:6 King James Version (KJV)

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Romans 1:20 King James Version (KJV)

 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

1 Timothy 4:10

10For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

Revelation 7:14

And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

1 Corinthians 14:37

If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

Along with those things I learned that the entire King James Bible is true from first word to last, from the Alpha to the Omega.   I learned there are possibly other perfect translations in the English language, as well as other languages, but I can't testify to them.

None of that addresses Eise's question from what I can see....  you have just quoted some scripture. Your faith is in the book. What happens if/when you find out the book is fiction?

 

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24 minutes ago, DrP said:

None of that addresses Eise's question from what I can see....  you have just quoted some scripture. Your faith is in the book. 

I just had a glitch in formatting happen.

 

Each scripture answers a question specifically. For instance:  "The way that Jesus said, or the way Paul said? Who of the two is right, and why?"    Is answered by:     If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord."  Those are Paul's words.  Jesus taught the commandments of God, Paul also.  They are both right.

Your question was what would I do if I found the book to be fiction.   I've known the book to be true for 41 years.   All my doubts about the language of the book have been answered by research using a Strong's Exhaustive Concordance.  The bible Revelation concerning our present historical era proves the bible goes beyond mere language, into prophecy.  Science has proven many aspects of the bible true, and I'm sure it will prove the entire bible true if we are given enough time, but God requires faith of us, as well as intellect, so maybe we won't have time for science to prove the bible true, and we will have to have complete our faith with faith. 

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11 minutes ago, coffeesippin said:

The bible Revelation concerning our present historical era proves the bible goes beyond mere language, into prophecy.

People have been saying that for generations. 1000 years ago people were convinced it was the end times...  they are still saying the same now and, if nothing happens, will say the same in 1000 years time (unless the human race realises it's pointless superstition to be what it is).  You can read anything into vague prophetic ramblings.

11 minutes ago, coffeesippin said:

Science has proven many aspects of the bible true, and I'm sure it will prove the entire bible true if we are given enough time

It has actually shown much of it to be complete fiction. There are contradictions too - which shouldn't have been allowed into the book if god was as it is described in the book.

 

Basically - once again - your entire argument depends upon the bible and nothing else.

 

Edited by DrP

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11 minutes ago, DrP said:

People have been saying that for generations. 1000 years ago people were convinced it was the end times...  they are still saying the same now and, if nothing happens, will say the same in 1000 years time (unless the human race realises it's pointless superstition to be what it is).  You can read anything into vague prophetic ramblings.

It has actually shown much of it to be complete fiction. There are contradictions too - which shouldn't have been allowed into the book if god was as it is described in the book.

 

Basically - once again - your entire argument depends upon the bible and nothing else.

 

The bible scriptures is the topic of this thread, Dr. P.  Not even if it is true or false.  

Science contradicts itself frequently and dramatically .. does that make science untrue?   Case in point, Aristarchus established the earth revolved around the sun 2,000 years ago instead of the then Consensus sun around the earth (before the time of the establishment Christ labelled institutions) yet he was exiled by the establishment.  Probably every bible believer encounters what appear to be contradictions, which is why the bible tells us to study it, that we might know it better, and having done so the contradictions solve themselves.  

If you want to open a topic on the accuracy of Revelation please notify me and I'll try to contribute.  But I'm seen as a proselytizer by some mods and admin here .. I don't want to aggravate the situation by opening the Revelation thread, because wisdom from above is peaceable.  You might be frightened though, by what Revelation contains.  Count your cost.

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22 minutes ago, coffeesippin said:

The bible scriptures is the topic of this thread, Dr. P.  Not even if it is true or false.  

Well - the OP askes what good the scriptures are what ones Paul had. 

So - what good are they?  Many would argue against this but I believe their are good moral guidelines in there - but you have to sift through the rubbish   -  the Christian pastor would word it differently of course....  he would say that you have to read it being lead by the holy ghost so as to wheedle out the nonsense put in by man from gods message... 'that those with ears would listen'.    However...  'what good are they' if they are fiction is debatable... and there are those here on this site who would demonstrate a spectrum of opinions on the subject.  

What isn't up for discussion as you put it is whether the bible is true or not - we all know it is fiction, unsubstantiated beyond the ramblings of people claiming personal testimonies (which always turn out to be delusions or misunderstandings of probability and co-incidence). 

What did Paul have?  -  I always thought it would be the Torah - but I am not an expert. I'm not sure it's relevant exactly what he had anyway - he'd have had whatever all the other Pharisees carried with them at the time, which I thought would have been the Torah - which is clearly fiction as it describes talking animals and a small boat with magic internal dimensions that supposedly took every living animal on board two by two along with many other impossible things - not of which there is any evidence for and in many circumstances evidence against.

 

 

36 minutes ago, coffeesippin said:

Science contradicts itself frequently and dramatically .. does that make science untrue?   Case in point, Aristarchus established the earth revolved around the sun 2,000 years ago instead of the then Consensus sun around the earth

But it is updated when new evidence comes to light (as you have pointed out for us above)....  unlike the bible which continues to claim fiction as truth.

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3 hours ago, coffeesippin said:

Along with those things I learned that the entire King James Bible is true from first word to last, from the Alpha to the Omega.

As DrP noticed, you did not answer my question: so here is it again.

How should one prepare for the coming of God's kingdom:

- according to Jesus

- according Paul

If you evade to answer the question again, we all know that your believe in the bible is a lie.

Edited by Eise

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6 minutes ago, Eise said:

As DrP noticed, you did not answer my question: so here is it again.

How should one prepare for the coming of God's kingdom:

- according to Jesus

- according Paul

If you evade to answer the question again, we all know that your believe in the bible is a lie.

From memory:- According to Jesus it is 'to love the lord your god with all your heart and mind and soul and to love your neighbour as yourself'....  and then taken further ' to give all of your possessions and money to the poor, because it is harder for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven that it is for a camel to fit through the eye of the needle'.

According to Paul?...  I cannot remember if the specific question was put directly to him...  There are parts of his writing that suggest faith alone is enough... that your belief is enough to save you (as per John 3:16) through gods grace and there are writings of his that suggest works of spreading the gospel are necessary I think..   I am un aware from memory what he states are the required preparations.  There seems to be some debate around Paul's writings though as to whether you need faith alone through grace or Christian works to be performed for one to be saved. 

 

13 minutes ago, Eise said:

If you evade to answer the question again, we all know that your believe in the bible is a lie.

being fair he may not know if there is a difference.

You might think the holy ghost would just give him the words to say to answer the question correctly (blah, chapter blah, verses, blah to blah...'when you stand before men to witness for me do not prepare your words, rather, let the holy spirit give you the words you need as you require them...' or something like that)

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1 hour ago, DrP said:

From memory

Hey! Coffeesippin should answer this! In the end, he knows the bible is the truth, so he should know this.

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4 minutes ago, Eise said:

Hey! Coffeesippin should answer this! In the end, he knows the bible is the truth, so he should know this.

Yea ....and if the bible is true then the holy ghost in side of him should be able to give him wisdom and knowledge to just answer these questions correctly without any research or reading - yes I agree.   But... his failure in this respect is further proof that the book and his belief is nonsense/delusion.

 

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3 hours ago, Eise said:

As DrP noticed, you did not answer my question: so here is it again.

How should one prepare for the coming of God's kingdom:

- according to Jesus

- according Paul

If you evade to answer the question again, we all know that your believe in the bible is a lie.

Once more then: Paul said he spoke the commandments of God, though he admitted he failed at times and was saved through grace.  Jesus did and and spoke the commandments of God, without failure.  Therefore we would prepare the same way according to Jesus or according to Paul.   The answer is 1 Timothy 4:10 .. works and faith.

"For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe."  To that we can easily ad, "shall we sin?  God forbid."  

For an answer beyond that you will have to begin with "In the beginning..." and continue to the last word "Amen."

How do you prepare for the kingdom of God, Eise?

 

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13 minutes ago, coffeesippin said:

Once more then: Paul said he spoke the commandments of God, though he admitted he failed at times and was saved through grace.  Jesus did and and spoke the commandments of God, without failure.  Therefore we would prepare the same way according to Jesus or according to Paul.   The answer is 1 Timothy 4:10 .. works and faith.

"For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe."  To that we can easily ad, "shall we sin?  God forbid."  

For an answer beyond that you will have to begin with "In the beginning..." and continue to the last word "Amen."

How do you prepare for the kingdom of God, Eise?

 

OK  -- So what is the best way to Mordor?

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28 minutes ago, coffeesippin said:

For an answer beyond that you will have to begin with "In the beginning..."

Or, "once upon a time"...

Edited by dimreepr

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13 minutes ago, DrP said:

OK  -- So what is the best way to Mordor?

"Walking Directions From the Shire to Mordor in Google Maps. If you go to Google Maps, click “Get Directions,” select walking, and search for directions from The Shire to Mordor, this amusing Lord of the Rings Easter egg from Google will caution you that “One does not simply walk into Mordor."   (But that's from Google, not me.)  It's an interesting exercise to think that a person may or may not be convinced that Mordor does or does not exist unless he or she follows that map.  And if the map doesn't take him or her to Mordor, he or she may believe that the map is wrong, and try Internet Explorer.   

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10 minutes ago, coffeesippin said:

"Walking Directions From the Shire to Mordor in Google Maps. If you go to Google Maps, click “Get Directions,” select walking, and search for directions from The Shire to Mordor, this amusing Lord of the Rings Easter egg from Google will caution you that “One does not simply walk into Mordor."   (But that's from Google, not me.)  It's an interesting exercise to think that a person may or may not be convinced that Mordor does or does not exist unless he or she follows that map.  And if the map doesn't take him or her to Mordor, he or she may believe that the map is wrong, and try Internet Explorer.   

Thanks....  Do you see my point though?  It is clearly a fictitious place.  

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2 hours ago, DrP said:

Thanks....  Do you see my point though?  It is clearly a fictitious place.  

There's a Mordor  near All Creatures veterinary services .. Mordor tattoo.  https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Mordor+Tattoo/@48.1989234,-122.1282559,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x54854f83747c98e1:0xaac65611a6ef6bfc!8m2!3d48.1989234!4d-122.1260672

To some people Mordor is just down the street where you get a tattoo. 

Until that search Mordor was a place or thing I've vaguely heard of in a fictional book I've never looked into. It could have been a real place for all I knew, or it could be a thing, like a humidor .. there could be money in Mordor Humidors especially now that weed is legal in the dry air of Canada's winter.  Maybe I should change my interest from science to marketing.  :ph34r:

2 hours ago, dimreepr said:

Or, "once upon a time"...

Hey .. then I thought, 'Once upon a time travel .. great title for a book.'   But Google told me it's already been done.  https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/36469446-once-upon-a-time-travel

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20 hours ago, coffeesippin said:

Once more then: Paul said he spoke the commandments of God, though he admitted he failed at times and was saved through grace.  Jesus did and and spoke the commandments of God, without failure.  Therefore we would prepare the same way according to Jesus or according to Paul.   The answer is 1 Timothy 4:10 .. works and faith.

Doesn't suffice as an answer. I suggest you have a look e.g. at this Christian site: www.jesuswordsonly.com, especially this page.

In short:

  • Jesus said you have to live according to the Jewish law, i.e. prepare by being morally good, doing good works and loving God and each other.
  • Paul, on the other hand, said that people should accept Jesus as saviour, that's all. For gentiles (non-Jews) it is not necessary to keep to the Jewish laws. He saw Jesus resurrection as the first sign, that the apocalypse actually had begun.

So the Catholic Church (and I assume most protestant churches too. Or are the protestant boys circumcised? Or don't protestants eat pork?) are not Christians, but Paulians. It is not the religion that Jesus taught, but Paul. Paul's religion is a religion about Jesus, not the religion of Jesus.

20 hours ago, coffeesippin said:

How do you prepare for the kingdom of God, Eise?

I don't. Jesus said it would happen during his lifetime, or at least shortly after (as did John the Baptist). Also Paul assumed it would happen pretty soon, and he hat to quieten some churches where people were worried that some of their companions had died before God's Kingdom was established. Obviously God's Kingdom did not come in nearly 2000 years, so we can safely put this prediction aside.

The only thing I do is trying to get at peace with life as it is, including its suffering and eventually my personal death. But I do not do this because I want to be rewarded in some fantasised afterlife. (And of course you know that Jesus meant the coming of God's Kingdom was on earth, not some afterlife).

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11 minutes ago, Eise said:

I don't. Jesus saidlit would happen during his lifetime, or at least shortly after (as did John the Baptist). Also Paul assumed it would happen pretty soon, and he hat to quieten some churches where people were worried that some of their companions had died before God's Kingdom was established. bel God's Kingdom did not come in nearly 2000 years, so we can safely put this prediction aside.

4

I believe the bible is teaching contentment so this makes sense to me.

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4 hours ago, Eise said:

Doesn't suffice as an answer. I suggest you have a look e.g. at this Christian site: www.jesuswordsonly.com, especially this page.

In short:

  • Jesus said you have to live according to the Jewish law, i.e. prepare by being morally good, doing good works and loving God and each other.
  • Paul, on the other hand, said that people should accept Jesus as saviour, that's all. For gentiles (non-Jews) it is not necessary to keep to the Jewish laws. He saw Jesus resurrection as the first sign, that the apocalypse actually had begun.

So the Catholic Church (and I assume most protestant churches too. Or are the protestant boys circumcised? Or don't protestants eat pork?) are not Christians, but Paulians. It is not the religion that Jesus taught, but Paul. Paul's religion is a religion about Jesus, not the religion of Jesus.

I don't. Jesus said it would happen during his lifetime, or at least shortly after (as did John the Baptist). Also Paul assumed it would happen pretty soon, and he hat to quieten some churches where people were worried that some of their companions had died before God's Kingdom was established. Obviously God's Kingdom did not come in nearly 2000 years, so we can safely put this prediction aside.

The only thing I do is trying to get at peace with life as it is, including its suffering and eventually my personal death. But I do not do this because I want to be rewarded in some fantasised afterlife. (And of course you know that Jesus meant the coming of God's Kingdom was on earth, not some afterlife).

Luke 17:20-21 King James Version (KJV)

20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.  

John 18:36

   Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence. 

    To summarize .. the Kingdom of God is with the individual believer, and is of faith in Christ, not of any other person or thing.

Jewish Law

    'One jot or one tittle shall not fail of the law till all be fullfilled.'      On the cross in his final words Jesus said, 'It is finished.'  The law was that sin had to be cleansed by blood.  The blood was shed at Golgotha.  The lamb was slaughtered (Christ) once for all time, no need for another sacrifice, except praise and thanksgiving.  The book of Hebrews is especially helpful in understanding that great sacrifice.  (but is that excuse to sin .. "God forbid.")

Books other than the bible

     Thanks, Eise, but no thanks.  Most other books about the bible are written by man, and are imperfect.  Satan also writes books about the bible.  I began with the Holy Ghost and the Word of God KJV which the Holy Ghost revealed as perfect. I had NO confusion for many years, until I began reading other books about the bible, and that confusion left when I returned to the bible only.  

The teacher who is most necessary

John 16

5But now I go my way to him that sent me; and none of you asketh me, Whither goest thou? 6But because I have said these things unto you, sorrow hath filled your heart. 7Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. 8And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9Of sin, because they believe not on me; 10Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; 11Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

12I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. 13Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

There are other teachers spoken of in the NT for the NT churches, but I don't believe I have been in a church yet that is based on New Testament order, other than perhaps the Quakers in which every man can speak, so in this period of time I don't often enter them.  Jesus spoke of a great falling away, I believe we are in that time, in which few remain with the truth.  

Our own personal death

John 11:25

25Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? 27She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

P.S.  Paul was strong on the salvation by grace, but his letters were also full of instructions as to how to lead good lives.  Three decades ago I was told by a then aged, and now long deceased lawyer, that they were included in his law classes as examples of logic.   You aren't alone in your supposed observation though, as James seemed to feel the need to remind Paul that 'what good is faith if a man have not works, for faith without works is dead.'   Perhaps James influenced Paul's letters.

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On 12/4/2018 at 9:26 PM, DrP said:

It has actually shown much of it to be complete fiction. There are contradictions too - which shouldn't have been allowed into the book if god was as it is described in the book.

Basically - once again - your entire argument depends upon the bible and nothing else.

That is patently obvious and true.

On 12/4/2018 at 9:47 PM, coffeesippin said:

The bible scriptures is the topic of this thread, Dr. P.  Not even if it is true or false.    

I find that rather bizarre that you are claiming that discussing the scriptures does not entail discussing whether they are true or not. sheesh.:rolleyes:

Quote

Science contradicts itself frequently and dramatically .. does that make science untrue?   Case in point, Aristarchus established the earth revolved around the sun 2,000 years ago instead of the then Consensus sun around the earth

Another bizarre premise. Science is a discipline in continued progress, as technology [brought about by science] enables further observations and more precise experiments. A quality we all should strive to attain. The fact that the Catholic church find no conflict in accepting the science and validity of the BB and the theory of the evolution of life, throws the bible, the scriptures in serious doubt, contradictory, and false.

5 hours ago, dimreepr said:

I believe the bible is teaching contentment so this makes sense to me.

I have absolutely no argument with that dimreepr, nor with anyone that follows the bible and scriptures. It's the hypocrisy shown by many that try and ram the scriptures down others throat, that  annoys many. Just as obviously also personally, I am as content as I could be in my life, and what I have done for others, and am still doing, without any reference to the scriptures. I live my life according to what I believe logic, sensibility and consideration dictate. 

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On 12/4/2018 at 7:08 AM, DrP said:

From memory:- According to Jesus it is 'to love the lord your god with all your heart and mind and soul and to love your neighbour as yourself'....  and then taken further ' to give all of your possessions and money to the poor, because it is harder for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven that it is for a camel to fit through the eye of the needle'.

According to Paul?...  I cannot remember if the specific question was put directly to him...  There are parts of his writing that suggest faith alone is enough... that your belief is enough to save you (as per John 3:16) through gods grace and there are writings of his that suggest works of spreading the gospel are necessary I think..   I am un aware from memory what he states are the required preparations.  There seems to be some debate around Paul's writings though as to whether you need faith alone through grace or Christian works to be performed for one to be saved. 

 

being fair he may not know if there is a difference.

You might think the holy ghost would just give him the words to say to answer the question correctly (blah, chapter blah, verses, blah to blah...'when you stand before men to witness for me do not prepare your words, rather, let the holy spirit give you the words you need as you require them...' or something like that)

From memory:- According to Jesus it is 'to love the lord your god with all your heart and mind and soul and to love your neighbour as yourself'.... 

                'For this contains all the law and the prophets.'

and then taken further ' to give all of your possessions and money to the poor, because it is harder for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven that it is for a camel to fit through the eye of the needle'.

                 This was to a specific person .. and continues, 'yet with God all things are possible.'

According to Paul?...  I cannot remember if the specific question was put directly to him...  There are parts of his writing that suggest faith alone is enough... that your belief is enough to save you (as per John 3:16) through gods grace

                 'For we are saved by grace and not by works, lest any man should boast.'    What price in money can you put on Christ on the cross.

and there are writings of his that suggest works of spreading the gospel are necessary I think..  

                  not all converted are called to be evangelists.

I am un aware from memory what he states are the required preparations.  There seems to be some debate around Paul's writings though as to whether you need faith alone through grace or Christian works to be performed for one to be saved. 

                James .. 'faith without works is dead.'

 

being fair he may not know if there is a difference.

You might think the holy ghost would just give him the words to say to answer the question correctly (blah, chapter blah, verses, blah to blah...'when you stand before men to witness for me do not prepare your words, rather, let the holy spirit give you the words you need as you require them...' or something like that)

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On 12/4/2018 at 2:05 AM, DirtyChai said:

Hey Eise, I've never heard of that expression before, "the youngest day."  Can you please elaborate?

Also, what specific verses are you talking about wrt what Jesus said vs what Paul said?

Thanks in advance!

In 41 years with KJV I have never seen 'The youngest day' mentioned anywhere in the KJV or in an gathering whether Christian or otherwise.  Strong's Exhaustive Concordance does no include any menion of 'The youngest day.'   It's an expression I've never encountered anywhere.

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On 10/5/2018 at 4:57 AM, jajrussel said:

In 2 Timirhy 3:16 Paul speaks about scriptures and what they are good for. What scriptures would Paul have been carrying around?

Hopefully he would have been carrying the gospels, of which Einstein said:  

"As a child I received instruction both in the Bible and in the Talmud. I am a Jew, but I am enthralled by the luminous figure of the Nazarene."[27] Einstein was then asked if he accepted the historical existence of Jesus, to which he replied, "Unquestionably! No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled with such life."[27]

 Later in a 1943 interview Einstein added, "It is quite possible that we can do greater things than Jesus, for what is written in the Bible about him is poetically embellished."[53]

In the last year of his life he said "If I were not a Jew I would be a Quaker."[

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_and_philosophical_views_of_Albert_Einstein

I have to add though that while the gospels were poetic, they were not embellished.

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12 hours ago, coffeesippin said:

<lot of cherry picked bible quotes>

Sigh... 

I pick one too:

 

Quote

 

Mark 9:1 King James Version (KJV)

And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.

 

So God's kingdom would happen in at most one generation.

So what is true? Don't we know when the Kingdom of God will come, or do we not know it precisely? Jesus estimated it would happen in at most one generation. But it still did not happen... How many generations have passed since? About 60? (Taking a generation to be about 30 years).

No, John the baptist, Jesus and Paul all expected the apocalypse in a lifetime. They differed however on the question how to prepare for it: Jesus proclaimed to keep to the Jewish law; for Paul  the only thing really needed was to accept Jesus as saviour.

What you do is preaching, not arguing. 

 

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12 minutes ago, Eise said:

Sigh... 

I pick one too:

 

So God's kingdom would happen in at most one generation.

So what is true? Don't we know when the Kingdom of God will come, or do we not know it precisely? Jesus estimated it would happen in at most one generation. But it still did not happen... How many generations have passed since? About 60? (Taking a generation to be about 30 years).

No, John the baptist, Jesus and Paul all expected the apocalypse in a lifetime. They differed however on the question how to prepare for it: Jesus proclaimed to keep to the Jewish law; for Paul  the only thing really needed was to accept Jesus as saviour.

What you do is preaching, not arguing. 

 

NOW I'm preaching.  I posted the Revelation in the Lounge.  Read it and fear.

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