Ten oz Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 The standard operating playbook that nearly all world govts/economies have followed since the industrial revolution is growth. In Western countries with lower birth rates they bring in migrants to make up the difference. Until societies reject the growth models which dominate our govt's and businesses over population won't be tackled. Education, as it currently exists, won't provide solutions as it promotes growth. Businesses must produce more year after year which means they need more costumers year after year. Colleges follow this model which is part of the reason student loan debt is such a huge problem. Campus are expanding, fees are increasing, and a ever increasing number of students are needed. A complete shift in the global monetary system is required. Sustainability needs greater focus but would require sacrifices I fear few are willing to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Externet Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 Solution to overpopulation... Compensation has to be the key. Allow benefits / less taxation / incentives / health care / access and preferences to housing programs, employment, pay raises... to families with less children. Instead of punishing families with too many children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvestru Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 Anyone who has seen Utopia knows what the solution to overpopulation is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itoero Posted July 24, 2018 Author Share Posted July 24, 2018 On 22/07/2018 at 6:12 PM, Phi for All said: After this statement blew up my active irony meter, I found my spare, switched off and in a drawer downstairs, with a crack in the faceplate. Good to know. According to a religious forecast for 2050 by Pew Research Center the percentage of the world's population that unaffiliated or Nonreligious is expected to drop, from 16% of the world's total population in 2010 to 13% in 2050. The decline is largely due to the advanced age (median age of 34) and low fertility among unaffiliated or Nonreligious 1.7 children per woman in the 2010–2015 period. Sociologist Phil Zuckerman's global studies on atheism have indicated that global atheism may be in decline due to irreligious countries having the lowest birth rates in the world and religious countries having higher birth rates in general. Atheism/agnosticism is spreading and it increases in number but that's peanuts compared to growth of religion.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_of_religion Globally, Muslims have the highest fertility rate, an average of 3.1 children per woman—well above replacement level (2.1) due to young age of Muslims (median age of 23) compared to other religious groups. Christians are second, at 2.7 children per woman.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_population_growth Most population growth/overpopulation is due to religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 8 minutes ago, Itoero said: Most population growth/overpopulation is due to religion. Correlation is not causation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itoero Posted July 24, 2018 Author Share Posted July 24, 2018 2 minutes ago, Strange said: Correlation is not causation. Religion causes a higher fertility rate. The facts/data show this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 18 minutes ago, Itoero said: Religion causes a higher fertility rate. The facts/data show this. Nah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nihilist scientist Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 (edited) 55 minutes ago, Itoero said: Good to know. According to a religious forecast for 2050 by Pew Research Center the percentage of the world's population that unaffiliated or Nonreligious is expected to drop, from 16% of the world's total population in 2010 to 13% in 2050. The decline is largely due to the advanced age (median age of 34) and low fertility among unaffiliated or Nonreligious 1.7 children per woman in the 2010–2015 period. Sociologist Phil Zuckerman's global studies on atheism have indicated that global atheism may be in decline due to irreligious countries having the lowest birth rates in the world and religious countries having higher birth rates in general. Atheism/agnosticism is spreading and it increases in number but that's peanuts compared to growth of religion.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_of_religion Globally, Muslims have the highest fertility rate, an average of 3.1 children per woman—well above replacement level (2.1) due to young age of Muslims (median age of 23) compared to other religious groups. Christians are second, at 2.7 children per woman.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_population_growth Most population growth/overpopulation is due to religion. Very funny approach. Please, look at counteries that have many atheists. Look at their economy, life standards, geopolitics. Probably, they are European countries and maybe a few Asian countries. Have you ever think why they are atheist? As Marx say, Religion is the opium of the people. People in atheist countries that don’t need religion, because they are not suffering from anything. They are fat and happy. They don’t live in the wild world. However, People in muslim (or another religion) countries, generally suffer from many thing. Starvation, poverty, terror and other social problems are too much. They need religion. They don’t have an another leg to stand on to live. Also, you should consider situation of Middle East countries that depended on third world countries’ exploitation attacks for many years. Please, don’t speak without thinking. Edited July 24, 2018 by nihilist scientist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itoero Posted July 25, 2018 Author Share Posted July 25, 2018 13 hours ago, Strange said: Nah According to a religious forecast for 2050 by Pew Research Center the percentage of the world's population that unaffiliated or Nonreligious is expected to drop, from 16% of the world's total population in 2010 to 13% in 2050. The decline is largely due to the advanced age (median age of 34) and low fertility among unaffiliated or Nonreligious 1.7 children per woman in the 2010–2015 period. Sociologist Phil Zuckerman's global studies on atheism have indicated that global atheism may be in decline due to irreligious countries having the lowest birth rates in the world and religious countries having higher birth rates in general. Atheism/agnosticism is spreading and it increases in number but that's peanuts compared to growth of religion.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_of_religion Globally, Muslims have the highest fertility rate, an average of 3.1 children per woman—well above replacement level (2.1) due to young age of Muslims (median age of 23) compared to other religious groups. Christians are second, at 2.7 children per woman.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_population_growth Do you deny all this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 5 minutes ago, Itoero said: Do you deny all this? No. CORRELATION IS NOT CAUSATION. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringJunky Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 59 minutes ago, Itoero said: According to a religious forecast for 2050 by Pew Research Center the percentage of the world's population that unaffiliated or Nonreligious is expected to drop, from 16% of the world's total population in 2010 to 13% in 2050. The decline is largely due to the advanced age (median age of 34) and low fertility among unaffiliated or Nonreligious 1.7 children per woman in the 2010–2015 period. Sociologist Phil Zuckerman's global studies on atheism have indicated that global atheism may be in decline due to irreligious countries having the lowest birth rates in the world and religious countries having higher birth rates in general. Atheism/agnosticism is spreading and it increases in number but that's peanuts compared to growth of religion.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_of_religion Globally, Muslims have the highest fertility rate, an average of 3.1 children per woman—well above replacement level (2.1) due to young age of Muslims (median age of 23) compared to other religious groups. Christians are second, at 2.7 children per woman.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_population_growth Do you deny all this? What's fertility got to do with religion? Absurd. Fertility is a biological process unaffected by ones religious belief. How can what one thinks affect it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nihilist scientist Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Itoero said: According to a religious forecast for 2050 by Pew Research Center the percentage of the world's population that unaffiliated or Nonreligious is expected to drop, from 16% of the world's total population in 2010 to 13% in 2050. The decline is largely due to the advanced age (median age of 34) and low fertility among unaffiliated or Nonreligious 1.7 children per woman in the 2010–2015 period. Sociologist Phil Zuckerman's global studies on atheism have indicated that global atheism may be in decline due to irreligious countries having the lowest birth rates in the world and religious countries having higher birth rates in general. Atheism/agnosticism is spreading and it increases in number but that's peanuts compared to growth of religion.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_of_religion Globally, Muslims have the highest fertility rate, an average of 3.1 children per woman—well above replacement level (2.1) due to young age of Muslims (median age of 23) compared to other religious groups. Christians are second, at 2.7 children per woman.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_population_growth Do you deny all this? You say : Religious countries are get in trouble with overpopulation because of religion. That is too explanatory! It is unbelievable! You are such a genius! You show statistics and you don’t ask “why”. I hope, you are not a scientist. Actually, In Islam, using birth control methods are allowable and making babies is not compulsory. That is to say, Islam don’t say “ you must make a lot of baby and don’t be preserved.” Even, Christianity is more strict about that , but as you say, christian are second fertility rate. If it depend on religion like you think, christians would have the highest fertility rate. As I mentioned before, It is about education, economics and life standards. I hope that you break down your prejudices. Also, these countries have another mid points except religion. Please , focus them and see the big picture. Edited July 25, 2018 by nihilist scientist 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itoero Posted July 25, 2018 Author Share Posted July 25, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Strange said: CORRELATION IS NOT CAUSATION. Why Not? Edited July 25, 2018 by Itoero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringJunky Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Itoero said: Why Not? Just because two things occur together does not necessarily mean that one is the cause of the other. It could be but it shouldn't be assumed. Edited July 25, 2018 by StringJunky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itoero Posted July 25, 2018 Author Share Posted July 25, 2018 54 minutes ago, StringJunky said: What's fertility got to do with religion? Absurd. Fertility is a biological process unaffected by ones religious belief. How can what one thinks affect it? Fertility rate is the average number of children that would be born to a woman over her lifetime https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_fertility_rate Religious people have on average a higher fertility rate. If you understand what religions like Christiannity and Islam really are then you know that a higher fertility rate is normal, it's expected. It's an evolutionary trait. 6 minutes ago, StringJunky said: 15 minutes ago, Itoero said: Just because two things occur together does not necessarily mean that one is the cause of the other. It could be but it shouldn't be assumed. Ok but the correlation is present in all major religions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringJunky Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Itoero said: Fertility rate is the average number of children that would be born to a woman over her lifetime https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_fertility_rate Religious people have on average a higher fertility rate. If you understand what religions like Christiannity and Islam really are then you know that a higher fertility rate is normal, it's expected. It's an evolutionary trait. They might have more children per capita but that's a policy decision, or other social reason, not because of reproductive viability. If you persist with your argument, you need to tell us the physiological mechanism by which religion affects fertility. Edited July 25, 2018 by StringJunky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Itoero said: Why Not? Good grief. (Maybe I shouldn't be surprised; there are so many things we take for granted and assume are common knowledge...) Well, there could be a third thing (or things) which are the cause of both the correlated factors. Or it could be coincidence. Or it could just be more complicated than that. I don't think I can do better than refer you to the excellent examples here: http://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations (and I bet they are all better correlated than religion vs birthrate) Edited July 25, 2018 by Strange Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itoero Posted July 25, 2018 Author Share Posted July 25, 2018 5 minutes ago, StringJunky said: They might have more children per capita but that's a policy decision, or other social reason, not because of reproductive viability. Yes and the data show this social reason is related to religion. -1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvestru Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 9 minutes ago, Itoero said: Yes and the data show this social reason is related to religion. I don't think you understand what fertility is or you are not giving the right arguments for your case. "Staying in a kneeling position (while praying for example) increases the chances of pregnancy due to ....." - Would be a hypothetical example of BS that we are expecting. You give religious believe as your argument which I guess is "not even wrong." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 16 minutes ago, Itoero said: Yes and the data show this social reason is related to religion. Correlated to religion. (Maybe. If there is any such correlation.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringJunky Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 16 minutes ago, Itoero said: Yes and the data show this social reason is related to religion. But fertility is not a social reason. I'm wondering if your knowledge of English is letting you down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itoero Posted July 25, 2018 Author Share Posted July 25, 2018 2 minutes ago, Strange said: Correlated to religion. (Maybe. If there is any such correlation.) No... Just now, StringJunky said: But fertility is not a social reason. I'm wondering if your knowledge of English is letting you down. I never said fertility is a social reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringJunky Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 2 minutes ago, Itoero said: No... I never said fertility is a social reason. But you said (in essence) religious people are more fertile and religious belief is a social reason 47 minutes ago, Itoero said: Fertility rate is the average number of children that would be born to a woman over her lifetime https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_fertility_rate Religious people have on average a higher fertility rate. If you understand what religions like Christiannity and Islam really are then you know that a higher fertility rate is normal, it's expected. It's an evolutionary trait. Ok but the correlation is present in all major religions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itoero Posted July 25, 2018 Author Share Posted July 25, 2018 9 minutes ago, Silvestru said: I don't think you understand what fertility is or you are not giving the right arguments for your case. "Staying in a kneeling position (while praying for example) increases the chances of pregnancy due to ....." - Would be a hypothetical example of BS that we are expecting. You give religious believe as your argument which I guess is "not even wrong." I just base myself on Wikipedia. I don't understand why people deny the relationship religion-fertility rate.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_fertility_rate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringJunky Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Itoero said: I just base myself on Wikipedia. I don't understand why people deny the relationship religion-fertility rate.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_fertility_rate I think you would be on far better ground if you said "Religious people exhibit a higher birth rate", which doesn't have to be associated with fertility. Edited July 25, 2018 by StringJunky 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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