koti Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 47 minutes ago, Quantum321 said: Epiphany Glad you slept on it and thought it through +1. I would encourage you to keep on lutking into this topic and expand your knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantum321 Posted June 21, 2018 Author Share Posted June 21, 2018 Thank you but it does not explain the Hubble constant and why galaxies are accelerating away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiot Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 Thank you for wasting my time and goodnight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantum321 Posted June 21, 2018 Author Share Posted June 21, 2018 (edited) LOL Sorry but the BB does not explain the Hubble constant and why galaxies are accelerating away from each other. It seems we are back where we started Moderator Note: The other moderator already gave me a demerit for this. Now you give me another one for the same thing? Edited June 21, 2018 by Quantum321 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 30 minutes ago, Quantum321 said: Moderator Note: The other moderator already gave me a demerit for this. Now you give me another one for the same thing? ! Moderator Note Moderators give warning points, but you haven't been given any. We don't control the reputation system, though. That's the membership expressing themselves non-vocally about some part of your posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantum321 Posted June 21, 2018 Author Share Posted June 21, 2018 Oh I see so someone in the membership is not pleased with my thinking. I don't always accept the current dogma, its sad that other blindly do. -1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringJunky Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 5 minutes ago, Quantum321 said: Oh I see so someone in the membership is not pleased with my thinking. I don't always accept the current dogma, its sad that other blindly do. You've been here long enough to know how this place works. Just remember: you are not Galileo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantum321 Posted June 21, 2018 Author Share Posted June 21, 2018 (edited) I already said I am not special. Galileo was special. How do you explain the Hubble constant? What causes the galaxies to be accelerating away? Edited June 21, 2018 by Quantum321 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 13 minutes ago, Quantum321 said: I don't always accept the current dogma, its sad that other blindly do. That's quite an assumption. Perhaps they simply had an epiphany before you did. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantum321 Posted June 21, 2018 Author Share Posted June 21, 2018 Giving members the ability to give demerits to others for not going along with the current accepted dogma by mainstream science limits creative thought. As long as anyone does not disrupt the site in an unacceptable way..one should be able to express their ideas 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringJunky Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Quantum321 said: Giving members the ability to give demerits to others for not going along with the current accepted dogma by mainstream science limits creative thought. As long as anyone does not disrupt the site in an unacceptable way..one should be able to express their ideas We don't want people talking out of their derriere. You have to build from what is known. You can't create an island of an idea in the middle of nowhere and expect it to make scientific sense. Edited June 21, 2018 by StringJunky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantum321 Posted June 21, 2018 Author Share Posted June 21, 2018 And if I put forth a concept that is not yet accepted by mainstream science how do you know it isn't already a known fact? Because you haven't heard of it yet doesn't mean it does not exist. I apologize if anything I may say you don't agree with...just ignore it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringJunky Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 4 minutes ago, Quantum321 said: And if I put forth a concept that is not yet accepted by mainstream science how do you know it isn't already a known fact? Because you haven't heard of it yet doesn't mean it does not exist. I apologize if anything I may say you don't agree with...just ignore it. I'm just saying how it is. If it's not accepted by mainstream science then it's not a fact because it hasn't passed peer review. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantum321 Posted June 21, 2018 Author Share Posted June 21, 2018 I understand your position perfectly. However, science has progressed far beyond publicized physics and peer review. Advancements have been made that are kept secret for fear other countries may find a way to use it against us. Don't get me wrong, Einstein was a truly revolutionary thinker and changed to world. Its a shame we the public are not privy to the current state of science. For example. Star wars was supposed to have been cancelled. But it wasn't. The US now has a space based laser satellite. Particle beam weapons have progressed. I know this because I have talked with an engineer who worked on them. And while he could not talk about the details he urged me to look up space based lasers on line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 11 minutes ago, Quantum321 said: Advancements have been made that are kept secret for fear other countries may find a way to use it against us. ! Moderator Note Please, no more of that. This is NOT a conspiracy site. If you have evidence, we have time to discuss it in another thread. But we will not allow unsubstantiated assertions in mainstream sections, and conspiracy isn't welcome anywhere on SFN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantum321 Posted June 21, 2018 Author Share Posted June 21, 2018 I am not taking about conspiracies. It's just that so much of what is known in science isn't published to the main stream. I will comply with your rules. -2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beecee Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 (edited) 10 hours ago, Quantum321 said: I am not here to talk about gravity. I just can't accept the premise that matter will go with space as it expands. How could it do that without some mechanism to make it happen? Let me put it as best as I can in my best layman's style: The discovery of the universe expanding was the first observational clue/evidence that led to the BB theory. [All one needs to do is mentally reverse that expansion] Since then of course other observational data has been forthcoming supporting the BB model overwhelmingly, the final nail in the coffin for alternative models being the discovery of the CMBR. What causes spacetime to expand? The momentum itself from the BB is the answer to that, remembering of course that the BB was itself the evolution of space and time, and as counter intuitivley as it may sound, is expanding into nothing. The DE component was observed when it was found that this expansion of the universe/spacetime was accelerating...Our best guess to what this DE is, is simply a property of spacetime itself. Now with regards to your apparent problem re why the galaxies are moving with the spacetime expansion, as others have informed you, it is actually the space between galactic structures and walls that is expanding: The space between stellar systems and galactic groups such as the one the Milky Way belongs to, is "decoupled" or "overcome" by the gravity of those galaxies and galactic groups.......similarly on smaller scales the planets stars and even us are held together by the strong and weak nuclear forces and EMF. The observed expansion as discovered by Edwin Hubble was illustrated in the redshift of light from distant galaxies: This has been determined as a cosmological redshift as distinct from Doppler and gravitational redshifts which also play a part. Andromeda [M31] is blueshifted due to the effects of gravity overcoming the natural spacetime expansion. Please though stay away from silly ridiculous conspiracy nonsense or invalid attempts to deride the mainstream model by those pushing other barrows. Mainstream science exists because it aligns with the scientific methodology and the direction where the abundance of evidence takes us. 3 hours ago, Quantum321 said: LOL Sorry but the BB does not explain the Hubble constant and why galaxies are accelerating away from each other. It seems we are back where we started As explained, it is the space between galaxies that is expanding. The BB theory/model along with other lines of evidence is built on that. Edited June 21, 2018 by beecee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantum321 Posted June 21, 2018 Author Share Posted June 21, 2018 Thank you but I already understand the concepts of BB and what you are saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 3 hours ago, Quantum321 said: LOL Sorry but the BB does not explain the Hubble constant and why galaxies are accelerating away from each other. It seems we are back where we started I see the mistake in your thinking now. You think because we don't know everything, we have to throw away what we do know and go "back where we started". That isn't how science works. 12 minutes ago, Quantum321 said: Thank you but I already understand the concepts of BB and what you are saying. But if you did, I think your incredulousness would be less intense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 10 hours ago, Quantum321 said: I know Einsteins equations explain all of this and this is what scientist have come to accept. It may be counter intuitive but something just doesn't set with me right. This is a good overview of Einstein's equations: http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/einstein/node7.html There is some mathematics, but you can get the gist without understanding that in depth. The two relevant points to this thread is that the movement of things towards one another in the presence of mass-energy (ie what we call "gravity") and the tendency of the distance between things to increase in the absence of mass-energy (or a homogeneous distribution of mass-energy) are the natural consequences of the nature of space-time. It requires a force to prevent things falling together, and similarly it requires a force to prevent expansion. So, it is the absence of forces holding them together that allows galaxies to drift apart; it is NOT a force pushing them. 1 hour ago, Quantum321 said: I am not taking about conspiracies. It's just that so much of what is known in science isn't published to the main stream. That IS a conspiracy theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantum321 Posted June 21, 2018 Author Share Posted June 21, 2018 I did not imply we should throw out everything we have learned. Where did you get that? And I don't think I am being incredulous. I just have not heard any explanation as to how the galaxies are accelerating their movements away. If you say, as I believe that space is expanding then how are the galaxies being physically influenced by this expansion? If you visualize galaxies x, y and z as points in the universe. As the space between them expands why should they move at all beyond the original BB expansion? The space will expand but should have no effect of the original positions of these galaxies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 1 minute ago, Quantum321 said: If you visualize galaxies x, y and z as points in the universe. As the space between them expands why should they move at all beyond the original BB expansion? The space will expand but should have no effect of the original positions of these galaxies. "Space" is just the distance between things. So, pretty much by definition, if the space (distance between them) expands then they get further apart. 3 hours ago, Quantum321 said: Sorry but the BB does not explain the Hubble constant and why galaxies are accelerating away from each other. Uh, what. That is EXACTLY what the Big Bang model explains. It adds lots of details, like the temperature of the CMB, the primordial proportions of hydrogen and helium, etc, but, basically: it explains expansion. That is what it is a theory of. 28 minutes ago, Quantum321 said: Thank you but I already understand the concepts of BB and what you are saying. Obviously not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantum321 Posted June 21, 2018 Author Share Posted June 21, 2018 Strange. " the tendency of the distance between things to increase in the absence of mass-energy (or a homogeneous distribution of mass-energy) are the natural consequences of the nature of space-time. " I honestly don't think that galaxies would accelerate away from each other as a normal consequence of the nature of space-time. You just don't get acceleration from the lack of a gravitational attraction. Sorry, but I just don't buy it... -1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 10 hours ago, Quantum321 said: Doesn't make sense to me. That is a problem with your understanding, not with the model. Just now, Quantum321 said: Strange. " the tendency of the distance between things to increase in the absence of mass-energy (or a homogeneous distribution of mass-energy) are the natural consequences of the nature of space-time. " I honestly don't think that galaxies would accelerate away from each other as a normal consequence of the nature of space-time. You just don't get acceleration from the lack of a gravitational attraction. Sorry, but I just don't buy it... It doesn't really matter what you think. That is what the model says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantum321 Posted June 21, 2018 Author Share Posted June 21, 2018 strange. " So, pretty much by definition, if the space (distance between them) expands then they get further apart. " Yes I know this is the prevailing explanation. But in my explanation of the three galaxies I don't see how space expansion between them should influence them at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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