DrmDoc

What is faith?

Recommended Posts

1 minute ago, Moontanman said:

The issue is religious faith. 

Why do I need protection from that, do you?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Moontanman said:

The issue is religious faith. 

!

Moderator Note

It's quite clear from the OP that the faith discussed in this thread is from believers in religion.

 
3 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

Why do I need protection from that, do you?

!

Moderator Note

FreeWill, this is an example of a strawman, since Moontanman never claimed dimreepr needed protection from religious faith. See the difference?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

Moderator Note

It's quite clear from the OP that the faith discussed in this thread is from believers in religion.

My issue is, it doesn't matter who believes in what? Reality will bite...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, dimreepr said:

My issue is, it doesn't matter who believes in what? Reality will bite...

We all know that though. This is a science site, so we are well versed on the fact that whatever we believe it doesn't impact on reality. (Apart from things like placebo effects... but even that is a belief that effects the well being and make up of a hugely complex human body... placebo's might effect biological machines but they won't effect the laws of physics).

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, DrP said:

We all know that though. This is a science site, so we are well versed on the fact that whatever we believe it doesn't impact on reality.

Did you cook breakfast?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

Did you cook breakfast?

Whether I believe that I did or that I did not doesn't change the fact of what actually happened.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

My issue is, it doesn't matter who believes in what? Reality will bite...

!

Moderator Note

Then you're off-topic. This thread is NOT discussing if belief matters or not. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, DrP said:

Whether I believe that I did or that I did not doesn't change the fact of what actually happened

This is the beauty of it. Reality: the past and the present.

To experience and learn the past and the present, gives trust in Nature, while gives a firm belief that there is Future and one day we can have every question answered. 

We already answered so many of them.

I think, I can firmly believe, that our scientific understanding will continue to develop, and at the end of the road we will have the possibility to answer Every question (including the ones religious people interested at).

 

Edited by FreeWill

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎5‎/‎21‎/‎2019 at 7:41 PM, FreeWill said:

I can firmly believe, that our scientific understanding will continue to develop

I fully agree with you. Science has the ability to advance both weapons and medicine.

 

On ‎5‎/‎21‎/‎2019 at 7:41 PM, FreeWill said:

and at the end of the road we will have the possibility to answer Every question (including the ones religious people interested at).

I doubt that science will be able to answer the questions about God in my lifetime. In the meantime, I just put my faith and trust in a God that created the universe, and without the science to back it up. I am not anti science, I just find faith in God to be helpful.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Eric H said:

I fully agree with you. Science has the ability to advance both weapons and medicine.

Along with most other aspects of our life.

Quote

I doubt that science will be able to answer the questions about God in my lifetime. 

Science doesn't need to answer any questions re the existence of anything we have no evidence for and which appears to be a stop gap answer and attempts in explaining that which science has not yet been able to explain.

Quote

In the meantime, I just put my faith and trust in a God that created the universe, and without the science to back it up. I am not anti science, I just find faith in God to be helpful.

That's your prerogative. I prefer the support of evidence, or to simply admit that we are ignorant of all the answers at this time, but are ever so slowly chipping away at that ignorance and gaining more and more evidenced backed knowledge all the time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/21/2019 at 4:16 PM, FreeWill said:

Delusion 

Okay, so you have an issue with using the word delusion in the context o faith, I can understand your concern. I would like to know what word would you rather use to describe the worshipers who donated their money to this guy:

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, koti said:

Okay, so you have an issue with using the word delusion in the context o faith, I can understand your concern. I would like to know what word would you rather use to describe the worshipers who donated their money to this guy:

 

Dolusioned, manipulated and exploited 

It is a perfect example, bit disgusted to watch...

Edited by FreeWill

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, FreeWill said:

Dolusioned, manipulated and exploited 

It is a perfect example, bit disgusted to watch...

Okay so the problem is apparently with me, I fail to understand why you spent all this time in this thread advocating the opposite of what you wrote above.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, koti said:

Okay so the problem is apparently with me, I fail to understand why you spent all this time in this thread advocating the opposite of what you wrote above.  

The problem is assuming that someone who believes something you don't is delusional or ignorant.

Very few people actually understand "the standard model" and if nothing else this site highlights that as a fact, sorry high probability.

But we all have to live together and whilst I get your zealous pursuit of enlightenment (given your local circumstances) banging your head against a wall is more likely to lead to endarkenment, at least for you.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, dimreepr said:

The problem is assuming that someone who believes something you don't is delusional or ignorant.

Very few people actually understand "the standard model" and if nothing else this site highlights that as a fact, sorry high probability.

But we all have to live together and whilst I get your zealous pursuit of enlightenment (given your local circumstances) banging your head against a wall is more likely to lead to endarkenment, at least for you.  

Zealous pursuit? Gee Dim, I’m not pursuing anything, it looks like another strawman from you. I think that people who donate money to and pray with a guy like in the interview I posted are delusional hence faith in itself is delusional in many if not most cases (not alwawys, I agree) I think. This has nothing to do with me having the same faith or not, I do not label people delusional just because they believe in something I don’t or have a different opinion from me - 2 strawman in one post Dim, youre going for a record?

Edit: @dimreepr, please dont take delusion/faith personally. I think most people are delusioned by something or into something at some point in their life. I’ve been delusioned by my ex wife into believing a reality which didn’t exist, fortunately that delusion is over for me. Theres no shame in this, the shame is in consciously pursuing delusion for profit and doing harm to people by consciously using it - like reverant dickhead does.

Edited by koti

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, koti said:

Zealous pursuit? Gee Dim, I’m not pursuing anything, it looks like another strawman from you. I think that people who donate money to and pray with a guy like in the interview I posted are delusional hence faith in itself is delusional in many if not most cases (not alwawys, I agree) I think. This has nothing to do with me having the same faith or not, I do not label people delusional just because they believe in something I don’t or have a different opinion from me - 2 strawman in one post Dim, youre going for a record?

Well, deflection may not seem like a full on headbutt but concussion is tricky to diagnose. 

Koti, lets not pretend your history in this subject is limited to this thread.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

Well, deflection may not seem like a full on headbutt but concussion is tricky to diagnose. 

Koti, lets not pretend your history in this subject is limited to this thread.  

Well ofcourse, my views on this subject are pretty well defined and known here on the forums. I honestly dont get why you think Im deflecting. Let me quickly synthesize what my views are again so we have it over with: if you give money and pray with reverent d head over there, I will call delusion. Thats about it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, koti said:

Well ofcourse, my views on this subject are pretty well defined and known here on the forums. I honestly dont get why you think Im deflecting. Let me quickly synthesize what my views are again so we have it over with: if you give money and pray with reverent d head over there, I will call delusion. Thats about it.

And if I don't but still believe? Which bit of "it" is about it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, FreeWill said:

Dolusioned, manipulated and exploited 

It is a perfect example, bit disgusted to watch...

https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/delusion?s=t

First example: Misconception, misbelief, Other words that struck my fancy.:

Deception, fantasy, chicanery, Self deception.

 

Quote

 

28 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

And if I don't but still believe? Which bit of "it" is about it?

I would think it's just another attempt to obfuscate this thread and draw it away from religious belief. 

If you believe that smacking your finger with a hammer will feel good you are delusional but not in the religious sense. I can demonstrate with your finger and a hammer how delusional you are. If you believe in god and give your money because then you think god wants your pastor or church to be rich then you are delusional in the religious sense and there is no way to demonstrate god is real much less want you to donate money to him. 

Edited by Moontanman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, koti said:

delusion

I was a believer for decades. I can only conclude that I was deluded (well - other conclusions could be come to - but I prefer delusion to insanity). The word describes well how I was for many years imo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
 
 
delusion
/dɪˈluːʒ(ə)n/
noun
 
  1. an idiosyncratic belief or impression maintained despite being contradicted by reality or rational argument, typically as a symptom of mental disorder.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, dimreepr said:
 
 
 
delusion
/dɪˈluːʒ(ə)n/
noun
 
  1. an idiosyncratic belief or impression maintained despite being contradicted by reality or rational argument, typically as a symptom of mental disorder.

I'd like to think it wasn't a mental disorder...  I do wonder sometimes though.  :blink:

It says 'typical of'...  presumably you can be deluded without the mental disorder?   

 

4 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

belief or impression maintained despite being contradicted by reality or rational argument

This - exactly. Reality and rational argument contradicts.... but the belief is(was) still there.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Who are most disordered, those that think they understand "the standard model" or those that think they understand the bible

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
Just now, dimreepr said:

Who are most disordered, those that think they understand "the standard model" or those that think they understand the bible

or those that think they are the Dalai Llama?

Edited by DrP

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

Who are most disordered, those that think they understand "the standard model" or those that think they understand the bible

Having read the bible both as one would read a book and the cherry picked parts my pastor required us to read with no rational explanation of any of it I would think that cosmologists at least have math and experimental data to back them up...   Most importantly "if you can't show it then you don't know it" AronRa but more importantly if you claim something is true there is no evidence for then you are lying... 

Edited by Moontanman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.