DrmDoc

What is faith?

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1 hour ago, FreeWill said:

I do not know, did you ever experience faith, but for sure I believe (know, has faith in*) that our scientific methodology is as good as we are able to set it up.

 

Faith is belief without evidence. Are you sure you have "faith" in our scientific methodology, or is it possibly "trust/confidence" based on actually seeing its success?

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, zapatos said:

Faith is belief without evidence.

So is trust in the future...

Edited by dimreepr

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Posted (edited)
53 minutes ago, zapatos said:

Faith is belief without evidence. Are you sure you have "faith" in our scientific methodology, or is it possibly "trust/confidence" based on actually seeing its success?

I have trust and since our scientific understanding does not seem to be absolutely complete (1/0), I have faith too. I have faith in the future of science. True, It's a trust without any* evidence.

*Future yet not appeared (I.e has no evidence) but 99.999...9% of energy and matter is present, on what the future will build on.

Trust in the past is faith in the future!

The future can not be 100% predictable and has no appeared evidence in the present. 

Edited by FreeWill

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8 minutes ago, FreeWill said:

Trust in the past is faith in the future!

I didn't say that.

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8 minutes ago, FreeWill said:

I have trust and since our scientific understanding does not seem to be absolutely complete (1/0), I have faith too. I have faith in the future of science. True, It's a trust without any* evidence.

*Future yet not appeared (I.e has no evidence) but 99.999...9% of energy and matter is present, on what the future will build on.

Trust in the past is faith in the future!

The future can not be 100% predictable and has no appeared evidence in the present. 

So you've robbed both faith and trust of their individual meanings, in order to be able to say you have faith in science. You steal from your own intellect.

2 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

I didn't say that.

Pay attention, please.

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3 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

Pay attention, please.

Sorry, I was stoned, what did you say?

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2 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

Sorry, I was stoned, what did you say?

Not me. You admonished FreeWill ("I didn't say that") when he was quoting zapatos, not you. Or did you think he was zapatos?

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LoL !

20 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

So you've robbed both faith and trust of their individual meanings, in order to be able to say you have faith in science. You steal from your own intellect.

Exactly.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Phi for All said:

So you've robbed both faith and trust of their individual meanings, in order to be able to say you have faith in science. You steal from your own intellect.

I think faith build on trust. 

 

The future has the element of insecurity even the future is highly predictable.

The level of insecurity (lack of knowledge) requires a certain level of belief in the choosen personal path One follows to understand Reality.

The predictable future outcome can be trusted and believed without absolute evidence, since it is built on Nature we perceive now.

I can not really have faith in classical religions. 

Their explanation of Natural Reality is very lame.

Knowledge and experience based belief gives faith (at least for me)

Edited by FreeWill

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51 minutes ago, FreeWill said:

I think faith build on trust. 

That's not what ANY dictionary definition supports. Instead, different words are used to distinguish between different concepts. For instance, faith is NOT built on trust, but rather is defined as "firm belief in something for which there is no proof". To equate the two or claim one is built on the other waters down both words. 

We have two distinct concepts for a good reason. Stop using trust to define faith. They are different approaches to the way we believe in things.

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53 minutes ago, FreeWill said:

I think faith build on trust. 

 

The future has the element of insecurity even the future is highly predictable.

The level of insecurity (lack of knowledge) requires a certain level of belief in the choosen personal path One follows to understand Reality.

The predictable future outcome can be believed without absolute evidence, since it is built Nature.

I can not really have faith in classical religions. 

Their explanation of Natural Reality is very lame.

Knowledge and experience based belief gives faith (at least for me)

Let me get this straight, according to you if I don’t know something I automatically have to have faith? How about just coming to terms with the fact that you don’t know something, work the best you can with what you have? Also, this is the religion section so the OP question deals with that context of faith and not the one that I have faith in you understanding that words have meaning and its a good idea not to change that meaning so we avoid misunderstanding.

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Posted (edited)

How can we call then the learned and trusted knowledge based firm belief which has no evidence?

Edited by FreeWill

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4 hours ago, dimreepr said:

Faith is trust backwards, whilst everything moves forwards.

But that doesn't mean we should be down on the faithful because we trust the future...

You are conflating trust and faith, as usual you continue to obfuscate the issue... 

29 minutes ago, FreeWill said:

How can we call then the learned and trusted knowledge based firm belief which has no evidence?

There is no firm and trusted belief that has no evidence by definition. If you have firm and trusted evidence you do not need belief... 

3 hours ago, dimreepr said:

So is trust in the future...

No, trust is based on past successes. 

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8 minutes ago, Moontanman said:

No, trust is based on past successes

, or failur.

Faith is in the firmly believed Future.

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Just now, FreeWill said:

, or failur.

Faith is in the firmly believed Future.

Please stop redefining words to fit your own needs. You might have reasonable expectations of the future based on past events but that is not faith... 

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, Moontanman said:

If you have firm and trusted evidence you do not need belief... 

True.

When all the knowledge gained faith can transform to deep absolute trust.

Edited by FreeWill

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Just now, FreeWill said:

True. When all the knowledge gained faith transforms to deep absolute trust.

I doubt the deep and absolute part... 

 

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52 minutes ago, FreeWill said:

How can we call then the learned and trusted knowledge based firm belief which has no evidence?

Give us an example. I can't imagine one.

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

Give us an example. 

Faith.

Edited by FreeWill

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1 minute ago, FreeWill said:

Faith.

Again redefine words to fit your own needs, >:D

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2 minutes ago, FreeWill said:

Faith.

Why claim faith is trusted? The definition says faith requires nothing trusted. Why do you insist on redefining the words everyone else is using?

It certainly makes my further participation meaningless.

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8 minutes ago, Moontanman said:

I doubt the deep and absolute part... 

 

The Theory of Everything will not be simple and shallow otherwise we would already found it and use it. 

The absolute part a bit over driven. It would be a deep, firm, almost absolute trust anyway.

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1 minute ago, FreeWill said:

The Theory of Everything will not be simple and shallow otherwise we would already found it and use it. 

The absolute part a bit over driven. It would be a deep, firm, almost absolute trust anyway.

I think you need to justify that, a baseless assertion is meaningless... 

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12 minutes ago, Moontanman said:
14 minutes ago, FreeWill said:

The Theory of Everything will not be simple and shallow otherwise we would already found it and use it. 

The absolute part a bit over driven. It would be a deep, firm, almost absolute trust anyway.

I think you need to justify that, a baseless assertion is meaningless... 

As far as I know, we do not know the theory of everything. 

I know that we know relativity and  I know also that 99% of the population do not understand exactly relativity so I can call it difficult and not a simple theory. 

As it looks like the theory of everything (since we yet did not find it) is more difficult than relativity so I think I can expect that it is complicated and not Simple. 

If you mean the other part, I already have knowledge based deep firm trust which I think will just deepen as I learn through Life. 

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5 minutes ago, FreeWill said:

As far as I know, we do not know the theory of everything. 

I know that we know relativity and  I know also that 99% of the population do not understand exactly relativity so I can call it difficult and not a simple theory. 

As it looks like the theory of everything (since we yet did not find it) is more difficult than relativity so I think I can expect that it is complicated and not Simple. 

If you mean the other part, I already have knowledge based deep firm trust which I think will just deepen as I learn through Life. 

TOE might be undiscovered for many reasons but what does any of this have to do with religious faith? 

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