DrP Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 10 minutes ago, dimreepr said: Did you cook breakfast? Whether I believe that I did or that I did not doesn't change the fact of what actually happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 36 minutes ago, dimreepr said: My issue is, it doesn't matter who believes in what? Reality will bite... ! Moderator Note Then you're off-topic. This thread is NOT discussing if belief matters or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeWill Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, DrP said: Whether I believe that I did or that I did not doesn't change the fact of what actually happened This is the beauty of it. Reality: the past and the present. To experience and learn the past and the present, gives trust in Nature, while gives a firm belief that there is Future and one day we can have every question answered. We already answered so many of them. I think, I can firmly believe, that our scientific understanding will continue to develop, and at the end of the road we will have the possibility to answer Every question (including the ones religious people interested at). Edited May 21, 2019 by FreeWill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric H Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 On 5/21/2019 at 7:41 PM, FreeWill said: I can firmly believe, that our scientific understanding will continue to develop I fully agree with you. Science has the ability to advance both weapons and medicine. On 5/21/2019 at 7:41 PM, FreeWill said: and at the end of the road we will have the possibility to answer Every question (including the ones religious people interested at). I doubt that science will be able to answer the questions about God in my lifetime. In the meantime, I just put my faith and trust in a God that created the universe, and without the science to back it up. I am not anti science, I just find faith in God to be helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beecee Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Eric H said: I fully agree with you. Science has the ability to advance both weapons and medicine. Along with most other aspects of our life. Quote I doubt that science will be able to answer the questions about God in my lifetime. Science doesn't need to answer any questions re the existence of anything we have no evidence for and which appears to be a stop gap answer and attempts in explaining that which science has not yet been able to explain. Quote In the meantime, I just put my faith and trust in a God that created the universe, and without the science to back it up. I am not anti science, I just find faith in God to be helpful. That's your prerogative. I prefer the support of evidence, or to simply admit that we are ignorant of all the answers at this time, but are ever so slowly chipping away at that ignorance and gaining more and more evidenced backed knowledge all the time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koti Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 On 5/21/2019 at 4:16 PM, FreeWill said: Delusion Okay, so you have an issue with using the word delusion in the context o faith, I can understand your concern. I would like to know what word would you rather use to describe the worshipers who donated their money to this guy: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeWill Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, koti said: Okay, so you have an issue with using the word delusion in the context o faith, I can understand your concern. I would like to know what word would you rather use to describe the worshipers who donated their money to this guy: Dolusioned, manipulated and exploited It is a perfect example, bit disgusted to watch... Edited May 30, 2019 by FreeWill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koti Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 6 minutes ago, FreeWill said: Dolusioned, manipulated and exploited It is a perfect example, bit disgusted to watch... Okay so the problem is apparently with me, I fail to understand why you spent all this time in this thread advocating the opposite of what you wrote above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 48 minutes ago, koti said: Okay so the problem is apparently with me, I fail to understand why you spent all this time in this thread advocating the opposite of what you wrote above. The problem is assuming that someone who believes something you don't is delusional or ignorant. Very few people actually understand "the standard model" and if nothing else this site highlights that as a fact, sorry high probability. But we all have to live together and whilst I get your zealous pursuit of enlightenment (given your local circumstances) banging your head against a wall is more likely to lead to endarkenment, at least for you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koti Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, dimreepr said: The problem is assuming that someone who believes something you don't is delusional or ignorant. Very few people actually understand "the standard model" and if nothing else this site highlights that as a fact, sorry high probability. But we all have to live together and whilst I get your zealous pursuit of enlightenment (given your local circumstances) banging your head against a wall is more likely to lead to endarkenment, at least for you. Zealous pursuit? Gee Dim, I’m not pursuing anything, it looks like another strawman from you. I think that people who donate money to and pray with a guy like in the interview I posted are delusional hence faith in itself is delusional in many if not most cases (not alwawys, I agree) I think. This has nothing to do with me having the same faith or not, I do not label people delusional just because they believe in something I don’t or have a different opinion from me - 2 strawman in one post Dim, youre going for a record? Edit: @dimreepr, please dont take delusion/faith personally. I think most people are delusioned by something or into something at some point in their life. I’ve been delusioned by my ex wife into believing a reality which didn’t exist, fortunately that delusion is over for me. Theres no shame in this, the shame is in consciously pursuing delusion for profit and doing harm to people by consciously using it - like reverant dickhead does. Edited May 30, 2019 by koti 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 8 minutes ago, koti said: Zealous pursuit? Gee Dim, I’m not pursuing anything, it looks like another strawman from you. I think that people who donate money to and pray with a guy like in the interview I posted are delusional hence faith in itself is delusional in many if not most cases (not alwawys, I agree) I think. This has nothing to do with me having the same faith or not, I do not label people delusional just because they believe in something I don’t or have a different opinion from me - 2 strawman in one post Dim, youre going for a record? Well, deflection may not seem like a full on headbutt but concussion is tricky to diagnose. Koti, lets not pretend your history in this subject is limited to this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koti Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, dimreepr said: Well, deflection may not seem like a full on headbutt but concussion is tricky to diagnose. Koti, lets not pretend your history in this subject is limited to this thread. Well ofcourse, my views on this subject are pretty well defined and known here on the forums. I honestly dont get why you think Im deflecting. Let me quickly synthesize what my views are again so we have it over with: if you give money and pray with reverent d head over there, I will call delusion. Thats about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 Just now, koti said: Well ofcourse, my views on this subject are pretty well defined and known here on the forums. I honestly dont get why you think Im deflecting. Let me quickly synthesize what my views are again so we have it over with: if you give money and pray with reverent d head over there, I will call delusion. Thats about it. And if I don't but still believe? Which bit of "it" is about it? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, FreeWill said: Dolusioned, manipulated and exploited It is a perfect example, bit disgusted to watch... https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/delusion?s=t First example: Misconception, misbelief, Other words that struck my fancy.: Deception, fantasy, chicanery, Self deception. Quote 28 minutes ago, dimreepr said: And if I don't but still believe? Which bit of "it" is about it? I would think it's just another attempt to obfuscate this thread and draw it away from religious belief. If you believe that smacking your finger with a hammer will feel good you are delusional but not in the religious sense. I can demonstrate with your finger and a hammer how delusional you are. If you believe in god and give your money because then you think god wants your pastor or church to be rich then you are delusional in the religious sense and there is no way to demonstrate god is real much less want you to donate money to him. Edited May 30, 2019 by Moontanman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrP Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 41 minutes ago, koti said: delusion I was a believer for decades. I can only conclude that I was deluded (well - other conclusions could be come to - but I prefer delusion to insanity). The word describes well how I was for many years imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 delusion /dɪˈluːʒ(ə)n/ noun an idiosyncratic belief or impression maintained despite being contradicted by reality or rational argument, typically as a symptom of mental disorder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrP Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, dimreepr said: delusion /dɪˈluːʒ(ə)n/ noun an idiosyncratic belief or impression maintained despite being contradicted by reality or rational argument, typically as a symptom of mental disorder. I'd like to think it wasn't a mental disorder... I do wonder sometimes though. It says 'typical of'... presumably you can be deluded without the mental disorder? 4 minutes ago, dimreepr said: belief or impression maintained despite being contradicted by reality or rational argument This - exactly. Reality and rational argument contradicts.... but the belief is(was) still there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 Who are most disordered, those that think they understand "the standard model" or those that think they understand the bible 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrP Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 (edited) Just now, dimreepr said: Who are most disordered, those that think they understand "the standard model" or those that think they understand the bible or those that think they are the Dalai Llama? Edited May 30, 2019 by DrP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, dimreepr said: Who are most disordered, those that think they understand "the standard model" or those that think they understand the bible Having read the bible both as one would read a book and the cherry picked parts my pastor required us to read with no rational explanation of any of it I would think that cosmologists at least have math and experimental data to back them up... Most importantly "if you can't show it then you don't know it" AronRa but more importantly if you claim something is true there is no evidence for then you are lying... Edited May 30, 2019 by Moontanman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 1 minute ago, DrP said: or those that think they are the Dalai Llama? Or you could just smile... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koti Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, dimreepr said: Who are most disordered, those that think they understand "the standard model" or those that think they understand the bible Depends on who you ask. Since we are on a scienceforum and evidence counts here I think you know the answer. The „good” guys at reverent dick head headquaters managed to label this site „unsafe” but I really urge you to compare the contents of it to the standard model: http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/ Edited May 30, 2019 by koti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 6 minutes ago, Moontanman said: Having read the bible both as one would read a book and the cherry picked parts my pastor required us to read with no rational explanation of any of it I would think that cosmologists at least have math and experimental data to back them up... And therein lies the problem, most of us don't know the language, we just get the synopsis... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 12 minutes ago, dimreepr said: And therein lies the problem, most of us don't know the language, we just get the synopsis... Again, you post a meaningless obfuscation of the OT.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Moontanman said: Again, you post a meaningless obfuscation of the OT.... Rito... but in case you meant the OP, what language are you using? Edited May 30, 2019 by dimreepr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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