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1*0=0 What is the comparable observation of this axiom?


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42 minutes ago, Strange said:

Really? You are struggling with basic arithmetic now?

This and your moronic comments about religion suggest a science site is not the best place for you. 

Mathematical clarity is a scientific necessity. 

The good thing is that my bit disturbed mathematical knowledge does not stop the clear and streight forward provable explanation of the axiom from your side. Which you constantly forget to do when you comment. I wonder why... (because it is a dogma you would try to protect and somewhere you know that...)

Edited by Lasse
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16 minutes ago, Strange said:

It is possible to formally define, and prove, the properties of numbers, and the operations on them, starting from a few basic examples. One of the first examples was https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peano_axioms

 

0 is a natural number

I agree with that. The rest I need time to understand.

what is 0?

What 0 means in mathematics and physics? How and why the 2 recognize 0 differently. Isn't it a kind of inconsistency?

Edited by Lasse
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4 minutes ago, Lasse said:

what is 0?

The properties of zero are defined by the rest of the axioms.

5 minutes ago, Lasse said:

How and why the 2 recognize 0 differently.

Why do you think they do?

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28 minutes ago, Strange said:

Why do you think they do?

This you already well know.

Because 1*0=0 and physically 0 can not exist since there is something.

This is specially awkward when I describe anything from nature e.g a tree outside, with the natural number One (1) and determin just to observe it and do nothing (0, lack of information for operation) and I should expect that the tree which originally recognized with number One should be gone.

Note please that my observation of the tree, that there is one in the moment of observation, is true throughout the Universe. I.e anyone from anywhere could recognize the same tree with the right technological knowledge.

Edited by Lasse
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30 minutes ago, Lasse said:

This you already well know.

Because 1*0=0 and physically 0 can not exist since there is something.

This is specially awkward when I describe anything from nature e.g a tree outside, with the natural number One (1) and determin just to observe it and do nothing (0, lack of information for operation) and I should expect that the tree which originally recognized with number One should be gone.

Note please that my observation of the tree, that there is one in the moment of observation, is true throughout the Universe. I.e anyone from anywhere could recognize the same tree with the right technological knowledge.

 

Perhaps your difficulty is in failing to distinguish between Mathematics and Physics.

No thing in the physical world is quite a different concept from zero in Mathematics.

Numbers and equations are in the province of Mathematics, which deals in mathematical objects as precisely defined as we can make them.

Zero is such an object and therefore can be said to exist mathematically.

The mathematical object 'zero' follows certain rules (yes Peano's are as good as any) which require 1*0 = 0*1 = 0

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, John Cuthber said:

Zero exists in the real world

It is the number of sisters I have.

 

When you think about it, you cannot be 100% certain. There is a small chance that your Father doesn’t know too. There are better examples of zero existing in the teal world - like the amount of my tax return this year. 

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1 hour ago, Lasse said:

Because 1*0=0 and physically 0 can not exist since there is something.

Let’s take a physical example: a £1 coin. The number of them I have is 0; in other words 1x0 = 0 pounds. 

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5 hours ago, studiot said:

Perhaps your difficulty is in failing to distinguish between Mathematics and Physics.

I can not at some level. Mathematics seems to be so fundamental.

6 hours ago, studiot said:

No thing in the physical world is quite a different concept from zero in Mathematics

I think so too and I wonder why and how?

6 hours ago, studiot said:

Numbers and equations are in the province of Mathematics, which deals in mathematical objects as precisely defined as we can make them

Exactly this ability of precision and "infinite" option for application what amaze me about it.

6 hours ago, studiot said:

Zero is such an object and therefore can be said to exist mathematically.

I agree with you. Zero mathematically perceivable. Does zero communicate information? What?

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6 hours ago, John Cuthber said:

Zero exists in the real world.

It is the number of sisters I have.

Physics doesn't have a problem with zero.

 

Yeah, but what if you have like a million times the number of sisters you have! Then you'd have like a million zero sisters. 

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6 hours ago, studiot said:

The mathematical object 'zero' follows certain rules (yes Peano's are as good as any) which require 1*0 = 0*1 = 0

Here comes the problem.

I can take anything around me. My dog walking with me in the forest. She is one in this spacetime even she constantly moving she is one inside of spacetime. 

If I assume that under the smallest possibly measurable time in this space Nothing happened with the dog how I could ever expect that her absolute biophysical values ever could degrade to mathematically zero information. 0. 

I can execute this thought experiment with everything from atoms to the universe itself.

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19 minutes ago, Lasse said:

I think so too and I wonder why and how?

Try viewing zero as an absence rather than as nothing. Something can always be absent of a quality. Zero is the expression absences. I can have zero trees in my yard yet that doesn't mean trees to do not exist.  

26 minutes ago, Lasse said:

I agree with you. Zero mathematically perceivable. Does zero communicate information? What?

If my bank account reads zero it communicates to be that I don't have any money in my account. 

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1 hour ago, Lasse said:

If I assume that under the smallest possibly measurable time in this space Nothing happened with the dog how I could ever expect that her absolute biophysical values ever could degrade to mathematically zero information. 0. 

But when you are out walking with 1 dog, you are also walking with 0 cats.

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7 hours ago, koti said:

When you think about it, you cannot be 100% certain. There is a small chance that your Father doesn’t know too. There are better examples of zero existing in the teal world - like the amount of my tax return this year. 

Zero is the number of declared sisters I have.

It's also very probably the number of sisters.

Whereas, for example 0.3 is  certainly not the number of sisters I have.

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