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God is simply a higher power at work in the universe. God is the higher power that is attributed responsibility for the existence of the universe and for mankind.

On 4/16/2018 at 10:13 AM, sci-man said:

im wondering about the being called 'god' and just how exactly could a being be a god.

so here are the questions.

1. what is a 'god'

2. how could a 'god' be

3. what proof is there of a 'god'

4. how do you know the bible or some other religious book wasn't just some storybook for kids to behave way back when.

5. when you now look at the evidence is the possibility of a 'god' real or not?

6. how would a 'god' exist/ be made?

 

A human understanding of a higher purpose for existence is the basis of an understanding for the concept of a higher power at work in the universe. It doesn't make sense to demand proof for a god in the way that you are when this is considered. 

38 minutes ago, DrP said:

...  so you made it up?  Doesn't look like evidence or proof or proper understanding or secret facts to me. 

The line I used to take (rather than making stuff up) - was to use biblical passage  -  regarding the 6 days..  it says in the bible that a day to the Lord is like a thousand years.  I saw creation as 6 time periods rather than literal days.    But after a while I saw how tenuous that was  too -  why would god be so cryptic  - why not just explain himself and tell it how it is instead of giving us mythical stories, seeing as there is supposed to be so much at stake and all...    -  answer is - he isn't actually there and it a made up construct of the human psyche. . 

I think it can be hard to accept if you have had 'a close personal relationship' with god. You have to come to terms that what you have believed for many years is delusion and myth and has no evidence for any of it being based in reality at all.  Open your eyes - the truth will set you free. 

 

If you understood how god was a higher power at work in the universe, it becomes clear that god has a way of communicating indirectly through such a way. 

Evidence for a god does not come externally, but internally, deriving from a personal understanding of a higher power at work in the universe, so it doesn't make sense for you to demand proof in the way that you are for a god.

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9 minutes ago, Endercreeper01 said:

God is simply a higher power at work in the universe. God is the higher power that is attributed responsibility for the existence of the universe and for mankind.

A human understanding of a higher purpose for existence is the basis of an understanding for the concept of a higher power at work in the universe. It doesn't make sense to demand proof for a god in the way that you are when this is considered. 

If you understood how god was a higher power at work in the universe, it becomes clear that god has a way of communicating indirectly through such a way. 

Evidence for a god does not come externally, but internally, deriving from a personal understanding of a higher power at work in the universe, so it doesn't make sense for you to demand proof in the way that you are for a god.

So it is indistinguishable from something you imagined?

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5 minutes ago, Strange said:

So it is indistinguishable from something you imagined?

It is not simply a thing that can be imagined, but a force at work in the universe. It is reasoned from a human understanding of existence that higher forces are responsible for existence.

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2 minutes ago, Endercreeper01 said:

It is not simply a thing that can be imagined, but a force at work in the universe. 

If it were a force at work, you would be able to measure its effects. 

3 minutes ago, Endercreeper01 said:

It is reasoned from a human understanding of existence that higher forces are responsible for existence.

Only people who already believe in a god or gods. No one else is going to reason that way. 

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1 minute ago, Strange said:

If it were a force at work, you would be able to measure its effects. 

Only people who already believe in a god or gods. No one else is going to reason that way. 

A force means a higher power at work over the course of the universe, with the effects of the force or influence being human existence as a whole.

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16 minutes ago, Endercreeper01 said:

A force means a higher power at work over the course of the universe, with the effects of the force or influence being human existence as a whole.

But, as we have explanations for human existence without invoking a higher power, then your undetectable force is not necessary (apart from making you feel good).

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48 minutes ago, Endercreeper01 said:

A force means a higher power at work over the course of the universe, with the effects of the force or influence being human existence as a whole.

We may have at one time many eons ago, needed this "higher force" to explain the earth and Universe around us, now it is simply unscientific and superfluous.                             

 

Edited by beecee
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8 minutes ago, Strange said:

But, as we have explanations for human existence without invoking a higher power, then your undetectable force is not necessary (apart from making you feel good).

The existence of the human as creatures is not what requires a higher power. It is the existence of a consciousness existing within a body that attributes a higher power to the existence of everything around it. When it is understood that the conscious self has an existence independent from everything around it, it becomes apparent how a higher power is responsible for creating everything around the consciousness for the self to exist within.

6 minutes ago, beecee said:

We may have at one time many eons ago, needed this "higher force" to explain the earth and Universe around us, now it is simply unscientific and superfluous.                             

 

Around us? How about the us? We, the consciousness, don't simply exist because of everything around us, but rather everything around us exists as a result of a higher power to allow us to exist within what the higher power has created.

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2 minutes ago, Endercreeper01 said:

 it becomes apparent how a higher power is responsible for creating everything around the consciousness for the self to exist within.

A stage of evolution I would say...one that we may not yet fully understand, but that's no reason to invoke the unscientific "god of the gaps"  scenario.

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1 minute ago, Endercreeper01 said:

The existence of the human as creatures is not what requires a higher power. It is the existence of a consciousness existing within a body that attributes a higher power to the existence of everything around it. When it is understood that the conscious self has an existence independent from everything around it, it becomes apparent how a higher power is responsible for creating everything around the consciousness for the self to exist within.

That is, if the consciousness is indeed independent of the body it inhabits. Since neurological phenomena have a strong impact on our perception and our consciousness, I am not convinced that this is the case

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9 minutes ago, Endercreeper01 said:

Around us? How about the us? We, the consciousness, don't simply exist because of everything around us, but rather everything around us exists as a result of a higher power to allow us to exist within what the higher power has created.

Gaps and ignorance at this time in science is no reason to invoke the unscientific "god of the gaps" [I just said that somewhere :P

Edited by beecee
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Just now, YaDinghus said:

That is, if the consciousness is indeed independent of the body it inhabits. Since neurological phenomena have a strong impact on our perception and our consciousness, I am not convinced that this is the case

Consciousness is about the self more than what the self experience. That is, the consciousness is supposed to be the self that is experiencing the brain or the body in the present moment. The fact that a consciousness is affected when the brain is affected shows how the consciousness is really experiencing the brain and becoming the brain, with an existence that requires a brain.

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2 minutes ago, Endercreeper01 said:

Consciousness is about the self more than what the self experience. That is, the consciousness is supposed to be the self that is experiencing the brain or the body in the present moment. The fact that a consciousness is affected when the brain is affected shows how the consciousness is really experiencing the brain and becoming the brain, with an existence that requires a brain.

That is a really nice and interesting idea. Alas, this idea doesn't get the status of hypothesis or even theory...

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3 minutes ago, Endercreeper01 said:

Consciousness is about the self more than what the self experience. That is, the consciousness is supposed to be the self that is experiencing the brain or the body in the present moment. The fact that a consciousness is affected when the brain is affected shows how the consciousness is really experiencing the brain and becoming the brain, with an existence that requires a brain.

So god doesn't exist when I die?

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13 minutes ago, YaDinghus said:

That is a really nice and interesting idea. Alas, this idea doesn't get the status of hypothesis or even theory...

Well yes, it is rather philosophical than scientific, but still very interesting however.

13 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

So god doesn't exist when I die?

Not if you are truly the higher power at work all along...

 

Edited by Endercreeper01
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Moderator Note

OT physics has been split off to the trash. This isn't a physics thread, and it isn't a prove-the-Bible-is-correct thread.

 
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3 hours ago, Endercreeper01 said:

The existence of the human as creatures is not what requires a higher power. It is the existence of a consciousness existing within a body that attributes a higher power to the existence of everything around it.

Any evidence for that claim?

3 hours ago, Endercreeper01 said:

When it is understood that the conscious self has an existence independent from everything around it, it becomes apparent how a higher power is responsible for creating everything around the consciousness for the self to exist within.

Do you have any evidence that the consciousness exists independently from everything around it?

But even if it were true (and I see zero reason to believe it) it doesn't logically follow that a higher power is responsible.

3 hours ago, Endercreeper01 said:

We, the consciousness, don't simply exist because of everything around us, but rather everything around us exists as a result of a higher power to allow us to exist within what the higher power has created.

So you keep saying. But I don't find your repeated statements of belief very convincing. If you had some evidence to support these claims ...

 

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4 hours ago, Strange said:

Any evidence for that claim?

Do you have any evidence that the consciousness exists independently from everything around it?

But even if it were true (and I see zero reason to believe it) it doesn't logically follow that a higher power is responsible.

So you keep saying. But I don't find your repeated statements of belief very convincing. If you had some evidence to support these claims ...

 

The self is what is at the center of a consciousness. If you or I, as in the self, reason that "I" or the self exists independently from everything around it, it makes more sense.

It is about knowing that "I" the self exist regardless of everything around me. However, this perspective only makes sense from the point of view of a consciousness reasoning about itself, and won't make sense if you look externally. 

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2 hours ago, Endercreeper01 said:

The self is what is at the center of a consciousness. If you or I, as in the self, reason that "I" or the self exists independently from everything around it, it makes more sense.

It may make some sense to you, but it makes no sense to me. And it making sense to you is not evidence and is not a logical or rational argument. It is just a statement of what you believe.

 

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29 minutes ago, Strange said:

It may make some sense to you, but it makes no sense to me. And it making sense to you is not evidence and is not a logical or rational argument. It is just a statement of what you believe.

 

The reasoning derives from a specific idea that needs to be accepted first  If this idea is accepted, the rest follows.

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36 minutes ago, Endercreeper01 said:

The reasoning derives from a specific idea that needs to be accepted first  If this idea is accepted, the rest follows.

Yep. That's what I said: if you already believe in a god, then you will accept the arguments for a god. This is not a rational argument, it is just an assertion of your beliefs.

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1 hour ago, Endercreeper01 said:

The reasoning derives from a specific idea that needs to be accepted first  If this idea is accepted, the rest follows.

The tipping point for all priests, marketers, and con men.

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5 hours ago, Strange said:

Yep. That's what I said: if you already believe in a god, then you will accept the arguments for a god. This is not a rational argument, it is just an assertion of your beliefs.

It's not about a god, it's about a higher power. The reasoning is supposed to show how a higher power creates around consciousness.

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1 minute ago, Endercreeper01 said:

It's not about a god, it's about a higher power. The reasoning is supposed to show how a higher power creates around consciousness.

A higher power with supernatural abilities? Stop being obtuse. It's an unscientific concept, pure and simple and we have absolutely no evidence for it.,

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