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Raider5678

Women in the United States Draft

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I was talking about the women's rights movement and some of the things it has accomplished, and the subject of women not being required to register for the draft came up.

Should women be required to register for the draft?

If so, should they get leniency in assigned roles, such as not being assigned to combat roles if they opt out of it?

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3 minutes ago, Raider5678 said:

I was talking about the women's rights movement and some of the things it has accomplished, and the subject of women not being required to register for the draft came up.

Should women be required to register for the draft?

If so, should they get leniency in assigned roles, such as not being assigned to combat roles if they opt out of it?

The best individual should be assigned for the task not taking into account gender. If the individual is suitable, trained and willing she/he should be assigned to this role.

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1 minute ago, Silvestru said:

The best individual should be assigned for the task not taking into account gender. If the individual is suitable, trained and willing she/he should be assigned to this role.

It's talking about a draft.

Willing is not a factor.

 

So, assuming the woman is not willing, should she still be assigned to an active combat role if she's suitable and trained against her will?

Edited by Raider5678

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1 minute ago, Silvestru said:

Should women be required to register for the draft?

This could be controversial but I think women should have the right to register but not the obligation to do it.

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Just now, Silvestru said:

This could be controversial but I think women should have the right to register but not the obligation to do it.

The right to register for the draft?

Wouldn't that be the same as simply enlisting in the army?

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Just now, Raider5678 said:

The right to register for the draft?

Wouldn't that be the same as simply enlisting in the army?

Ok sorry, we are posting really fast and I am getting lost in the thread haha.

I really think that the best environment and team needs diversity and gender balance but in this case I feel like only men should be drafted and women, like you said simply having the right to enlist in the army and then having equal rights/opportunities. It's traditionally men who start wars so women should not be drafted. Actually no one should be ever drafted but I understand that that's not the world we live in.
 

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Just now, Silvestru said:

Ok sorry, we are posting really fast and I am getting lost in the thread haha.

I really think that the best environment and team needs diversity and gender balance but in this case I feel like only men should be drafted and women, like you said simply having the right to enlist in the army and then having equal rights/opportunities. It's traditionally men who start wars so women should not be drafted. Actually no one should be ever drafted but I understand that that's not the world we live in.

4

Okay.

 

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Just now, Raider5678 said:

Okay.

Haha was expecting you to say:

Quote

There is no such thing as selective equality!

 

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Just now, Silvestru said:

Haha was expecting you to say:

 

Nah, I'm sexist.

I fully embrace it at this point.

I think men have a responsibility to do things that women should not be responsible to do.

Like dying in wars. 

I have no problem with women in the military, but I also don't think it's their responsibility.

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Just now, Raider5678 said:

Nah, I'm sexist.

I fully embrace it at this point.

I think men have a responsibility to do things that women should not be responsible to do.

Like dying in wars. 

I have no problem with women in the military, but I also don't think it's their responsibility.

I feel it's a bad idea from the government side. I feel like it's harder and harder to convince the nation to go to war and you have to kinda sell the idea of "attacking an enemy nation" now and make it look as acceptable as possible. 

Taking daughters away from their family to be drafted in order to kill and die "for their nation" just doesn't sound good. I would rather have a smaller army and bigger support from the citizens than a big army of people, many of which absolutely think it's wrong to be there.

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5 minutes ago, Raider5678 said:

Nah, I'm sexist.

I fully embrace it at this point.

Hopefully, you'll outgrow this.

I think the draft itself should be eliminated. If we must have it, however, it should apply equally to all regardless of gender. Once through training, people will naturally be sorted into the roles for which they're best fit. What plumbing they use to reproduce is extraneous and irrelevant.

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1 minute ago, Silvestru said:

I feel it's a bad idea from the government side. I feel like it's harder and harder to convince the nation to go to war and you have to kinda sell the idea of "attacking an enemy nation" now and make it look as acceptable as possible. 

Taking daughters away from their family to be drafted in order to kill and die "for their nation" just doesn't sound good. I would rather have a smaller army and bigger support from the citizens than a big army of people, many of which absolutely think it's wrong to be there.

I highly doubt a draft will be required anytime soon.

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Just now, Silvestru said:

Nah, I'm sexist.

I fully embrace it at this point.

I hope I am not out of place, I feel like I got to know a bit about you just through this forum and I feel that you are too young to make this decision.

I feel like you will change your mind as time passes and you experience more of life. Don't label yourself :P

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3 minutes ago, Silvestru said:

Don't label yourself :P

 

I stopped trying to get rid of the label after someone said I was sexist for commenting that for most teenager single mothers who struggle to provide for their kid, there was a guy involved making that child and then left. And I said those guys turned their back on the responsibility to help take care of the child.

I was called a sexist because apparently, I assume that single women aren't capable without men and that I should try and get over my bigoted mindset.

So I gave up at that point and I've stopped trying to get rid of the label.

 

But this is beside the point and off-topic.

 

Edited by Raider5678

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I'm really intrigued by this discussion, as a woman that constantly struggles with the perception that people have of women needing to be treated differently (the number of times people have apologised, specifically to me as the only woman in the room, for swearing, even though I will swear in front of the same people with a similar frequency, drives me round the bend).  Raider, why do you think women should have a different responsibility from men in this arena?  

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Just now, Juno said:

Raider, why do you think women should have a different responsibility from men in this arena?

One of them includes what typically happens to female prisoners of war. I need not describe.

Another is that while I have no problem with women in the military, I feel wrong about forcing women to join.

 

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13 minutes ago, Raider5678 said:

One of them includes what typically happens to female prisoners of war. I need not describe.

We need not describe what happens to ANY prisoner of war, men included. How is this relevant? HINT: It's not

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19 minutes ago, Raider5678 said:

One of them includes what typically happens to female prisoners of war. I need not describe.

Another is that while I have no problem with women in the military, I feel wrong about forcing women to join.

 

That sounds like your own squeamishness rather than a rational basis.  Horrible things happen to people in war all the time - the fact is that they may not be the same horrible things for men and women but if you're going to force people into a situation where they could be killed or have legs blown off, I don't see why another horrible thing also possible happening to a subset of people is really relevant.

Likewise your second point - I'd feel "wrong" about forcing anyone to join a military, male or female, but if the situation requires it, why do you feel more "wrong" about women?  

 

Edited by Juno
edited for typos - that's what I get for posting on forums while I'm also working...

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39 minutes ago, Raider5678 said:

The right to register for the draft?

Wouldn't that be the same as simply enlisting in the army?

Registering for the draft is not the same as being drafted, or enlisting. I registered for the draft in 1980, after Carter signed the Registration Under the Military Selective Service Act into law.

I was never drafted. My active duty service was voluntary. Nobody else has been drafted, either. To quote SGT  Hulka, "There ain't no draft no more."

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Juno said:

why do you feel more "wrong" about women? 

Because I'm a sexist who hates women I assume.

 

I have a sister and a brother.

I'd be upset if my brother was drafted, I'd be far more upset if my sister was drafted.

 

Edited by Raider5678

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1 minute ago, Raider5678 said:

Because I'm a sexist who hates women I assume.

Come on, you can do better than that.  It's a genuine question - men so often feel like they need to protect women without really considering whether the women actually want that protection (I imagine plenty of women do, but it's certainly not all of us).

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23 minutes ago, swansont said:

I was never drafted. My active duty service was voluntary. Nobody else has been drafted, either. To quote SGT  Hulka, "There ain't no draft no more."

 

And what's your opinion on this subject?

 

 

12 minutes ago, Juno said:

Come on, you can do better than that.  It's a genuine question - men so often feel like they need to protect women without really considering whether the women actually want that protection (I imagine plenty of women do, but it's certainly not all of us).

I can do better than that, however, it boils down to the same facet of thinking:

I view men and women differently.

 

Because of the many different views I have on men and women, and the fact I see them as two very different categories of people, it influences how I feel about them.

 

50 minutes ago, iNow said:

What plumbing they use to reproduce is extraneous and irrelevant.

 

It's not about them having a vagina and breasts.

It has much more to do with their psychology. 

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figure 1

 

Men are more likely to support a war.

Men should be the ones to fight it then.

 

 

24 minutes ago, Juno said:

Horrible things happen to people in war all the time - the fact is that they may not be the same horrible things for men and women but if you're going to force people into a situation where they could be killed or have legs blown off, I don't see why another horrible thing also possible happening to a subset of people is really relevant.

But a man getting his legs blown off is much more acceptable to me than what happened to women under ISIS.

Men were typically executed.

Women literally begged for death.

 

Plenty of documentaries, stories, interviews, etc, if you're interested.

Edited by Raider5678

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13 minutes ago, Raider5678 said:

Men are more likely to support a war.

Men should be the ones to fight it then.

What your chart shows is that there are a good proportion of men who do not support war, and a good proportion of women who do.  So, the people who support a war should fight it.  Why should the men who don't support a war be made to fight it, but the women who do support it aren't made to?  

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Just now, Juno said:

What your chart shows is that there are a good proportion of men who do not support war, and a good proportion of women who do.  So, the people who support a war should fight it.  Why should the men who don't support a war be made to fight it, but the women who do support it aren't made to?  

Because we're talking about majorities here.

Popular vote.

 

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12 minutes ago, Raider5678 said:

Because we're talking about majorities here.

Popular vote.

 

And you're suggesting that all women should be stuck with the decision of the majority of women, and that all men should be stuck with the decision of the majority of men.  You're still making a distinction between men and women without really justifying why you're making that distinction, rather than any other (political persuasion seems like it would be more relevant).

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