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Ten oz

How do you all feel about Spoilers

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This is a bit of a silly thread but it something that has been annoying me of late. It seems that nearly all shows and movies coming out nowadays treat their entire plots as secrets. I understand some stories have twist endings or are center around riddles but all stories aren't mysteries. I am finding it increasingly difficult to even get a useful synopsis of stories. As a result I find myself simply watching less content. Since I can't get a feel for the story I just pass. For me knowing a bit of happens is not a bad thing and I feel like in the past this wasn't as big of an issue. How do members in here feel about spoilers? Does knowing a bit a story going in enhance or diminish the experience?

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4 minutes ago, Ten oz said:

This is a bit of a silly thread but it something that has been annoying me of late. It seems that nearly all shows and movies coming out nowadays treat their entire plots as secrets. I understand some stories have twist endings or are center around riddles but all stories aren't mysteries. I am finding it increasingly difficult to even get a useful synopsis of stories. As a result I find myself simply watching less content. Since I can't get a feel for the story I just pass. For me knowing a bit of happens is not a bad thing and I feel like in the past this wasn't as big of an issue. How do members in here feel about spoilers? Does knowing a bit a story going in enhance or diminish the experience?

i don't watch TV or films any more but I would like to know the general storyline to see if it might interest me.

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Hate spoilers. Can still enjoy the show, but one can’t replace the pure unadulterated and fresh surprise of the experience once someone gives something away. I also enjoy figuring things out on my own and feel robbed of that when someone up and tells me. Agree that synopses are weaker, but I’m willing to accept that. I also don’t get to watch much tv anymore anyway, so could be unrepresentative of the median. 

Edited by iNow

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41 minutes ago, iNow said:

Hate spoilers. Can still enjoy the show, but one can’t replace the pure unadulterated and fresh surprise of the experience once someone gives something away. I also enjoy figuring things out on my own and feel robbed of that when someone up and tells me. Agree that synopses are weaker, but I’m willing to accept that. I also don’t get to watch much tv anymore anyway, so could be unrepresentative of the median. 

I guess we are different in that regard. What makes a movie good for me in the strength of things like cinematography, score, editing, and story development. Knowing what happens doesn't bother me. Whether I know or not the filmmakers still have to deliver. I feel so many movies in recent years purposely hold back critical information just for the sake of having a surprise. Not only in marketing but often within the film themselves it seems like the audience is being force to wait for a reveal rather than experience a natural progression of events. In my opinion it is poor story telling.  One of my favorite books is F Scott Fitzgerald's The Great Gatsby. That story has a few twists yet at no point is information intentionally withheld. The audience knows everything the narrator knows. It is the choices people make and natural development of the characters that create the spoiler worthy moments.

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1 hour ago, Ten oz said:

This is a bit of a silly thread but it something that has been annoying me of late. It seems that nearly all shows and movies coming out nowadays treat their entire plots as secrets. I understand some stories have twist endings or are center around riddles but all stories aren't mysteries. I am finding it increasingly difficult to even get a useful synopsis of stories. As a result I find myself simply watching less content. Since I can't get a feel for the story I just pass. For me knowing a bit of happens is not a bad thing and I feel like in the past this wasn't as big of an issue. How do members in here feel about spoilers? Does knowing a bit a story going in enhance or diminish the experience?

I don't really mind them. In 1968 I remember seeing the greatest Sci/Fi movie ever made in 4 times in the first year, trying to figure out the whole gist of the bloody thing. That movie of course was 2001: A Space Odyssey: Then I got hold of the book and read it over three nights. All was revealed! Since then I have seen 2001 probably 24, 25 times and have it on dvd also. 

Sometimes I will read the gist of a particular movie I wish to watch before watching it...sometimes its fun working backwards in your mind as to how a known conclusion will be reached. Don't get me wrong, I still enjoy a good "who dunnit"  movie and love working out who the baddie or culprit is. Actually either way satisfies me as long as the movie plot and acting is decent.

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17 minutes ago, beecee said:

I don't really mind them. In 1968 I remember seeing the greatest Sci/Fi movie ever made in 4 times in the first year, trying to figure out the whole gist of the bloody thing. That movie of course was 2001: A Space Odyssey: Then I got hold of the book and read it over three nights. All was revealed! Since then I have seen 2001 probably 24, 25 times and have it on dvd also. 

To anecdotally test my view that stories are treated more secretly now days I just watched the original trailer for 2001: A Space Odyssey to compare. Sure enough the trailer clearly outlines the basic set up for story and gives away a some gems which by todays standards would most certainly be considered spoilers. However the qualify of the premise and movie was such that there was no reason to hide plot points in my opinion. 

 

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44 minutes ago, Ten oz said:

One of my favorite books is F Scott Fitzgerald's The Great Gatsby. That story has a few twists yet at no point is information intentionally withheld. The audience knows everything the narrator knows. It is the choices people make and natural development of the characters that create the spoiler worthy moments.

Books are different, though. You’re changing reference frames. Even with Gatsby, the movie synopsis (modern, no comment on original) and trailer both still manage to draw us in. 

 

To be clear, I’m still more than capable of enjoying shows despite spoilers. However, if I’m seeking to maximize enjoyment, spoilers would be absent. 

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2 hours ago, iNow said:

Hate spoilers. Can still enjoy the show, but one can’t replace the pure unadulterated and fresh surprise of the experience once someone gives something away. I also enjoy figuring things out on my own and feel robbed of that when someone up and tells me.

This is me as well. One of my best entertainment experiences was when I told a friend of mine the only things I knew about 24 was it starred Kiefer Sutherland and each episode took place in real time, so a season was one whole day. He handed me the first season set of DVDs and I had no preconceptions, there were no clips I remembered from trailers, absolutely nothing to take me out of the experience. It's like being in the first car on the roller coaster, in the fog. You can't see very far ahead and you just have to hold on. Fabulous!

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8 hours ago, iNow said:

Hate spoilers. Can still enjoy the show, but one can’t replace the pure unadulterated and fresh surprise of the experience once someone gives something away. I also enjoy figuring things out on my own and feel robbed of that when someone up and tells me. Agree that synopses are weaker, but I’m willing to accept that. I also don’t get to watch much tv anymore anyway, so could be unrepresentative of the median. 

How will you know what show to choose then if you wont watch a trailer or if the trailer reveals nothing? Trust your friends recommendation?

That backfired on me so bad. American Gods as an example.

Many movies nowadays have great trailers but very weak plots. I know it's DC trash tear but always loved the "Suicide squad". When a movie was being released I even loved the trailer but the movie turned out to be abysmal. :(

Edited by Silvestru

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7 hours ago, iNow said:

Books are different, though. You’re changing reference frames. Even with Gatsby, the movie synopsis (modern, no comment on original) and trailer both still manage to draw us in. 

That trailer is a good example. If one hadn't already read the book they would have no way of knowing what the movie about. The trailer provides no natural order of events, concept of who characters are in relationship to each, meaningfulness of locations, what year it is, and etc. All that gets addressed is that DiCaprio is a guy with some grand vision.  In the case of the Great Gatsby it is fair to assume the audience knows the story. However there have been modern updates of stories that are told from different perspectives like Baz Lurmann's Romeo and Juliet so some clarity on what to expect was needed for me. In the case of Gatsby I didn't see the movie. I was initially interested but struggle with the marketing as appeared to be very contemporary stylistically. I wouldn't mind a contemporary Gatsby film but that isn't what it appeared to be. Rather Luhrmann's vision seemed to be playing fast and loose with eras and style. 

 

47 minutes ago, Silvestru said:

How will you know what show to choose then if you wont watch a trailer or if the trailer reveals nothing? Trust your friends recommendation?

That backfired on me so bad. American Gods as an example.

Many movies nowadays have great trailers but very weak plots. I know it's DC trash tear but always loved the "Suicide squad". When a movie was being released I even loved the trailer but the movie turned out to be abysmal. :(

Lots of movies seem to include things in trailers that don't even end up in the film. They also edit separate scenes together to give the appearance of characters interacting that actually aren't. It is just a bunch of misdirection. I don't understand it. In none of the advertising for the movie Black Panther was I able to discern who the antagonist was or what they wanted. For the most recent Star Wars the marketing played it up as through any number of characters may or may not be turning bad. I eventually saw Black Panther once enough detailed reviews were out. I didn't bother with the new Star Wars as even after reviews I still had no idea what the story was about.

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18 minutes ago, Ten oz said:

Lots of movies seem to include things in trailers that don't even end up in the film. They also edit separate scenes together to give the appearance of characters interacting that actually aren't. It is just a bunch of misdirection. I don't understand it. In none of the advertising for the movie Black Panther was I able to discern who the antagonist was or what they wanted. For the most recent Star Wars the marketing played it up as through any number of characters may or may not be turning bad. I eventually saw Black Panther once enough detailed reviews were out. I didn't bother with the new Star Wars as even after reviews I still had no idea what the story was about.

I still cant get out of my head a scene that is only in the trailer for Inglorious basterds where Hitler screams Nein Nein Nein Nein and then it cuts to Brad Pitt's character (forgot his name) saying : Oh Yes Yes Yes Yes. (you can check the trailer). I remember waiting for the second scene the whole movie and it didn't show up haha. I guess it's a letdown when this happens but it's more important to sell tickets and make people go watch the movie even if they are let down. (no one asks for their money back anymore)

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I hate spoilers and even avoid trailers. I enjoy just going to the cinema with no idea about what i am about to see. Same for books -  just need to know the genre.

Most big films don't need trailers anyway. Star Wars, Avengers, Transformers etc... you can pretty much guess the entire script beforehand let alone the plot. You only go for the pretty effects.

A good trailer i saw was La La Land. The film was OK, but the trailer actually subverted expectations at one point in the movie which i thought was a nice dynamic.

Edited by Prometheus

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3 hours ago, Silvestru said:

I still cant get out of my head a scene that is only in the trailer for Inglorious basterds where Hitler screams Nein Nein Nein Nein and then it cuts to Brad Pitt's character (forgot his name) saying : Oh Yes Yes Yes Yes. (you can check the trailer). I remember waiting for the second scene the whole movie and it didn't show up haha.

This is a big reason, once I've made up my mind to see a movie, I don't watch trailers. For me, once the movie gets to one of the clips from a trailer, my mind looks for the trailer's pattern for the next clip, I jump ahead and now I'm out of the movie experience. :angry:

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2 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

This is a big reason, once I've made up my mind to see a movie, I don't watch trailers. For me, once the movie gets to one of the clips from a trailer, my mind looks for the trailer's pattern for the next clip, I jump ahead and now I'm out of the movie experience. :angry:

Haha ok but how do you decide what movies to watch. Even if you like let's say thrillers, there are thousands of movies released each year. As I mentioned I don't trust my friends with recommendations. I like to live or die by my own decisions :( 

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3 hours ago, Prometheus said:

I hate spoilers and even avoid trailers. I enjoy just going to the cinema with no idea about what i am about to see. Same for books -  just need to know the genre.

Most big films don't need trailers anyway. Star Wars, Avengers, Transformers etc... you can pretty much guess the entire script beforehand let alone the plot. You only go for the pretty effects.

This doesn't apply for me. I have not seen all the Star Wars or Marvel films. I never read comic books as a kid. Without a synopsis I have no idea who the characters are in many mainstream movies. As such I have no desire to see the films as they do so little to sell their stories or characters. The film industry is slumping as other forms of media compete for audiences attention. Like wise network television struggles as well. I can't help but the feel the treat every detail as a spoiler approach is part of the problem though concede probably only a very small part. For me, I don't feel one should have to already be a fan or research other films or media to understand what a movie is about. Unless the movie is a who done it mystery I see no useful reason in hiding plot details. 2 hours of my day is too much to give just to find out what a movie is about in hopes I enjoy it. As result I simply watch less movies.

 

Quote

 

Movie theater attendance in the US and Canada in 2017 fell to its lowest point since at least 1992, Bloomberg reports. Box Office Mojo estimates around 1.24 billion tickets were sold, a drop off of 5.8 percent from the previous year. Even with higher ticket prices, domestic revenue also dropped 2.7 percent from last year, from $11.4 billion to $11.1 billion.

The slump is part of an ongoing downward trend when it comes to domestic ticket sales. The Hollywood Reporter estimates that attendance in North America could be at a 27-year low. But when you factor in international theater attendance, things look slightly less dire. As The Hollywood Reporter points out, global box office revenue hit a record $40 billion this year (an increase of 3 percent worldwide).

https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/3/16844662/movie-theater-attendance-2017-low-netflix-streaming

 

 

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41 minutes ago, Silvestru said:

Haha ok but how do you decide what movies to watch.

The easiest is by actor. I haven't seen a bad Simon Pegg movie yet. Frances McDormand. Benedict Cumberbatch. Cate Blanchett.

Studios with great production values, Pixar, DreamWorks. 

Franchises are often a no-brainer. I've seen all the other Pirates of the Caribbean movies, why wouldn't I see the next? I don't need to see the trailers to know Bruckheimer's formula.

And directors, of course. I'd pay to see JJ Abrams direct traffic.

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33 minutes ago, Silvestru said:

Haha ok but how do you decide what movies to watch. Even if you like let's say thrillers, there are thousands of movies released each year. As I mentioned I don't trust my friends with recommendations. I like to live or die by my own decisions :( 

This is how I feel. I don't understand how someone is even able to decide what to watch anyone when marketing campaigns purposefully hide information and misdirect audiences. I guess studios just rely on the fact one is already committed to the material based on having seen previous films, play the game, or read the comic. As for my friends, they are mostly all a**holes when it comes to film and TV. They will tell me something is great but then refuse to provide story details because they "don't want to spoil it", hahahaha. So I just end up not watching.

One recent exception would be Westworld. That show was told through the perspective of characters who themselves were unaware of details. The audiences learn as the characters did. The mysterious nature of the show was appropriate and well done. Where as properties like the Walking Dead constantly imply danger for a character in the final act of a episode and then don't bother to follow up with that character for another couple episodes just to dangle audiences along. It is annoying and cause me to abandon the series.

3 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

And directors, of course. I'd pay to see JJ Abrams direct traffic.

MI:3 is tied for 2nd worst in the series, Super 8 was a poorly done Spielberg formula rip off, I never finished the Force Awakens, and Star Trek Into the Darkness had the exact sort of hidden plot information this thread in complaining about. Had Into the Darkness just openly embraced Khan as the stories protagonist rather than conceal it for maximum shock value the movie could have been considerable better and about 30 minutes shorter.. Enterprise vs Khan works just fine without Sixth Sensing it up with misdirection.  

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19 minutes ago, Ten oz said:

As such I have no desire to see the films as they do so little to sell their stories or characters. 

I feel you. This is what most trailers look like to me, i must be getting old: 

 

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11 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

And directors, of course. I'd pay to see JJ Abrams direct traffic.

Hahaha I would share a seat with you.

10 minutes ago, Ten oz said:

One recent exception would be Westworld. That show was told through the perspective of characters who themselves were unaware of details. The audiences learn as the characters did. The mysterious nature of the show was appropriate and well done. Where as properties like the Walking Dead constantly imply danger for a character in the final act of a episode and then don't bother to follow up with that character for another couple episodes just to dangle audiences along. It is annoying and cause me to abandon the series.

Yeah west world was great and frankly original. When I first heard about the plot as described by my friend: "It's basically the wild west but with robots" I was shocked.

The walking dead also became boring. After the whole prison season I left it be. The danger was no longer zombies, it was A-holes. It should be called the walking A-holes after the first 2 seasons.

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21 minutes ago, Ten oz said:

This is how I feel. I don't understand how someone is even able to decide what to watch anyone when marketing campaigns purposefully hide information and misdirect audiences. I guess studios just rely on the fact one is already committed to the material based on having seen previous films, play the game, or read the comic. As for my friends, they are mostly all a**holes when it comes to film and TV. They will tell me something is great but then refuse to provide story details because they "don't want to spoil it", hahahaha. So I just end up not watching.

I agree.  My husband is pathologically averse to telling me what something's about.  If he suggests a film, and I ask what it's about, he'll tell me who directed it, who's in it, etc., before he gets anywhere near any actual useful information.  If he puts something on at home and I ask what it is, he'll pretty much refuse to tell me, so like Ten oz I'll go and do something else.  I hate starting to watch something having no idea what it is or what it's supposed to be about.  

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I don’t really watch movies, but with TV shows I can usually make a decision based on a few sentences of blurb and a picture. I know what broadly what elements I enjoy, I know the themes that interest me, I know the actors I like to see. I find I get much more value from discovering the story by watching the whole thing play out as intended (I take the same approach to books).  It also tends to keep me more engaged. This is especially true with movies, since I generally struggle to find patience enough to sit through them. 

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29 minutes ago, Prometheus said:

I feel you. This is what most trailers look like to me, i must be getting old: 

 

Hahahaha, perhaps I am just getting old. Though when my father was my age He was the parent of small children and actively went to the movies every weekend. 

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There's still loads of great movies being made - even by Hollywood. My favourite surprise movie last year was Get Out: i'd recommend it to most people. I think that counts as Hollywood.

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1 hour ago, Prometheus said:

There's still loads of great movies being made - even by Hollywood. My favourite surprise movie last year was Get Out: i'd recommend it to most people. I think that counts as Hollywood.

Get Out was good. I think it gets a little too much credit for being fresh and original. It's catch was already done in the Skeleton's Key. The racial commentary was done better in Get Out but definitely were present in the Skeleton's Key as well. Get Out had some surprises but all the plot elements were as marketed. As an Audience member I got exactly what I expected out of Get Out. Contrast that with the soon to be release "A Quiet Place". I have no idea what A Quiet Place is about. I know a family must stay quiet but that is all. I don't know what the threat to them is (zombies, dragons, aliens, ghosts, etc), what world they are in (post apocalypse, modern day rural, etc), or what needs to be done for them to improve their circumstances. For those reasons I will not see the film despite is excellent reviews. 

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On 4/4/2018 at 8:44 AM, Silvestru said:

Yeah west world was great and frankly original.

Hmm, I was kind of primed to the backstory due to its name. While it has nice mystery elements of it, the theme was very similar (though in the end told better, I feel).

 

On 4/4/2018 at 8:29 AM, Phi for All said:

Benedict Cumberbatch.

I have a hard time finding something with him that I like. I always hope for the best (e.g. Sherlock) but get thoroughly disappointed almost every time. 

With regard to spoilers, I tend to ignore them, and I really do not care for plot, either, especially when it comes to movies. For example, Ran could be simply explained as a re-telling of King Lear. Yet it does not really tell yo anything with regard to the cinematic experience. A trailer basically looks like a samurai movie. Over the years I noticed that I tend to look more for director, editor and director of photography more than anything else. Director and editor tell me (often) what style to expect, regardless of story. The DP tells me much of the visual experience. If the cinematography is breathtaking I can overlook much of the plot, unless it is too plodding or annoying, for example. As a recent example, I thoroughly disliked Sicario's plot (and -holes). But boy, was the cinematography (by Roger Deakins) enjoyable. 

Of course, with those folks dying or being dead (talk about getting old) it takes a while until one finds a s new generation of filmmakers that one can enjoy...

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