Body odour and race

[Function]

Hello everyone

Just to make some things clear:

• Everything mentioned in here is mentioned from a scientific point of view and results from personal observations.
• This thread is not meant to be racist; if anyone feels in a more or less direct way offended by this post, please let me know what can be changed to work towards a solution that works for both parties.

So I sat on the train today, after spending too much money on some sweets, a little reward to myself for successfully taking the exam on pneumology, haematology, and nephrology earlier today.

Looking into my candy bag, and picking some sweets, I suddenly noticed a specific odour. An odour that was very well known to me, an odour that I had come to associate with black people over time. Without knowing who sat in my vicinity, I noticed some frizzy afro-american hairs protruding above the seat in front of me; and it was clear to me that the odour was indeed coming from that person. And I have totally no problem with that; I just noticed it and found it remarkable that I could determine the presence of a person of a certain race in my vicinity just by smelling. Above all, I have 2 black nephews and a black aunt and whenever I'm near them, I cannot help but notice the same familiar, typical odour.

I'm trying to find what correlation can be made between race and body odour, but I only find some shifty fora with discussions that lead to nothing. I'm looking for scientifically validated data and articles that state that indeed different races do have specific body odours.

Can someone help me in this search?

Thank you kindly.

Function

[StringJunky]

Possibly they have more sweat glands because they are necessary to manage the heat in their ethnic groups places of origin. Apparently,  far eastern people sweat the least.

[iNow]

Diet and cooking techniques strike me as likely to be far more relevant

[Sensei]

22 minutes ago, Function said:

I just noticed it and found it remarkable that I could determine the presence of a person of a certain race in my vicinity just by smelling.

Did you also notice that even white person heavily tanned, has changed skin smell.. ?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=smell+of+body+after+tanning

 

 

[John Cuthber]

Looks like confirmation bias to me

[StringJunky]

3 minutes ago, John Cuthber said:

Looks like confirmation bias to me

Why? I haven't noticed it myself but I do remember a chap asking another black chap the same sort of question. It was innocently asked but it did cause an awkward momentary silence.

iNow's post is equally plausible.

[John Cuthber]

Some people smell more than others-   not least depending on washing themselves and their laundry.
It's not hard to imagine someone noticing it for some member of a particular group and forming the hypothesis that the odour was because of the group membership.

 

That's exactly the sort of thing that would be reinforced by confirmation bias. You perceive the odour, but you only remember it when it's in the presence of the "right" people.

Having said that, ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_histocompatibility_complex

 

[StringJunky]

4 minutes ago, John Cuthber said:

Some people smell more than others-   not least depending on washing themselves and their laundry.
It's not hard to imagine someone noticing it for some member of a particular group and forming the hypothesis that the odour was because of the group membership.

 

That's exactly the sort of thing that would be reinforced by confirmation bias. You perceive the odour, but you only remember it when it's in the presence of the "right" people.

Having said that, ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_histocompatibility_complex

 

Yes, that's true but each group may have their own general signature smell which distinguishes itself from the group of the person smelling. White people may have a smell that distinguishes them to other groups. That link you posted is over my head.

[beecee]

It seems to me that a major part of the odour of a person of a particular nationality, maybe a result of their staple diet/s. eg: curry, garlic additives in larger then average quantities?

Edited January 29, 2018 by beecee

[iNow]

6 minutes ago, beecee said:

It seems to me that a major part of the odour of a person of a particular nationality, maybe a result of their staple diet/s. eg: curry, garlic additives in larger then average quantities?

That seems like a promising idea

 

2 hours ago, iNow said:

Diet and cooking techniques strike me as likely to be far more relevant

 

[MigL]

Would have to agree with iNow, diet is probably the primary factor, nothing to do with race.

Ethnicity, on the other hand...
Being of Italian descent, I notice my own BO changes if I eat too much garlic or preserved meats.
I've noticed the same of Slavic people ( garlic and pickled foods ).

X-posted with BeeCee.

 

Edited January 29, 2018 by MigL

[Raider5678]

3 hours ago, John Cuthber said:

Looks like confirmation bias to me

I've experienced this as well, so have several others it seems. I doubt it's simply confirmation bias.

 

Additionally, through some research I've concluded that both INow and StringJunky are pretty much both correct.

The gland which is mainly(not entirely, but mainly) responsible for body odor would be called an Apocrine sweat gland, which genetic differences between races mean it tends to show up less in some races like Asians, and more in others.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocrine_sweat_gland

https://health.howstuffworks.com/wellness/hygiene-tips/body-odor2.htm

Additionally, diet also plays a role, most notably with garlic and other spices.

Spices are a very cultural food, as well as interestingly vegetables.

Both things that can cause body odor.

 

 

Another interesting thing is that body odor changes with age, from pre-pubescent, to pubescent, to middle age, to elderly.

Anyone else ever notices your grandma always smells a certain way? Not bad, but definitely different.

 

Edited January 30, 2018 by Raider5678

[CharonY]

Partially correct. Essentially there is a SNP assocciated with the functions of a protein (I want to say ABCC11) increased activity of this proteins results in higher apocrine secretion as well as a higher metabolic content. The latter increases bacterial activity, which ultimately results in increased sweat related body odor. In Asians a variant is more prevalent which results in lower activity (which is one of the reasons why in East Asia deodorants are rarely used). However, this is specific to sweat-related odor and AFAIK there is no known difference between black and white folks. For overall odor, a mixture of diet and the microbiome  is more relevant. The latter can be dependent on where you live, who you interact with and what you eat. Also personal care products.

Edited January 30, 2018 by CharonY

[Burak Ozdelice]

My humble oppinion is smell was (and is still)  one of the key communication tool before light or sound. Its root probably goes to billion years back. So it is totally expectable that smell is shaped by very long time process and depends on the living environment. Thus it should be totally normal that races  have different smells.   

[Sensei]

11 hours ago, Burak Ozdelice said:

My humble opinion is smell was (and is still)  one of the key communication tool before light or sound.

Whether there is day or night can be detected by microorganism/bacteria.

 

Edited February 2, 2018 by Sensei

[theresav fields]

It is bad for a skin to smell. We should always aware this and follow  personal observations

[mistermack]

In my experience, there's no particular racial smell. But there are lots of individual smells, with a lot of different causes. The strongest smells I find come from clothes, not skin. If I change my clothes regularly, I never get stinky, no matter how long I leave it between baths or washes. But if I pick up a shirt that I wore a few days ago and put it on, it smells as soon as it gets warm. Even if I only wore it for a few hours. It might smell ok when I sniff it, but it won't once it's been on for half an hour. I think that the bacteria get to work on it, once you've worn it.

I can't imagine a reason why the same thing doesn't happen on the skin, If I don't bath, but it definitely doesn't. 

I had a Mauritian girlfriend, of mixed race, but mostly African, and she smelt of nothing different to white girls. I find that women rarely smell bad, I think they change their undies more promptly than men. Maybe what people think of as racial might be more to do with laundry habits, of different cultures. 

Diet definitely DOES have an affect too. I had a very nice (white) flatmate years ago, who was pretty addicted to garlic, and you always got a faint whiff while she was around. We did get intimate once, and up close, her skin was exuding garlic aroma really strongly. You might think that sounds, unpleasant, but it was really a sort of modified version, having gone through her body, and it smelt pretty wonderful, actually. 

She was aware of it and not bothered, she'd probably had previous favourable reactions from boyfriends. 

The worst smelling person I ever met was a (white) guy with an amputated leg. It was absolutely horrendous, but nobody wanted to bring the subject up, as it might have been to do with his disability.

So no, I don't think there's a racial reason for a different smell. Cultural, from diet or laundry habits possibly. But that can apply to all races.

[Kelli9]

Well this is really true because I've observed this as well... And, I know this is about humans but...

Different animal species have their own unique "species smell",  horses smell like horses do,  cows smell like cows, chickens smell like chickens, fish, smell like well, fish! I'm sure you could understand too that a troop of Gorillas also has their own unique smell, and a dog smells like a dog(after a bath?) 

I know it sounds weird and it's different than the subject post but it is very true and gives more credibility to this observation.

It gives me all the proof I myself need that different races of humans have their own unique smell too(but for what purpose, is it possibly something that goes understood into our minds subconsciously?) I think it plays some important roles that we do not understand....but could understand.

Edited October 29, 2018 by Kelli9

[StringJunky]

4 minutes ago, Kelli9 said:

Well this is really true because I've observed this as well... And, I know this is about humans but...

Different animal species have their own unique "species smell",  horses smell like horses do,  cows smell like cows, chickens smell like chickens, fish, smell like well, fish! I'm sure you could understand too that a troop of Gorillas also has their own unique smell, and a dog smells like a dog(after a bath?) 

I know it sounds weird and it's different than the subject post but it is very true and gives more credibility to this observation.

It gives me all the proof I myself need that different races of humans have their own unique smell too(but for what purpose, is it possibly something that goes understood into our minds subconsciously?) I think it plays some important roles that we do not understand....but could understand.

Different ethnicities are not different species.

[Kelli9]

Just now, StringJunky said:

Different ethnicities are not different species.

Well, no. Of course not... But do you understand the idea? Similarities though. Just thoughts.

[StringJunky]

2 minutes ago, Kelli9 said:

Well, no. Of course not... But do you understand the idea? Similarities though. Just thoughts.

If there is any general difference it will be tied to diet or practices, I would think.

[SamIam]

I had to look this up in my Principles of Surgery book. I hope this helps.

Eccrine sweat is the clear aqueous solution containing 99% water and 1% solids, half of which are ganic salts and half organic compounds. Under normal circumstances it is hypotonic, but at high rates of sweating it depends on material that is in the blood stream; it is not a simple ultrafiltrate of plasma but, but represents an active secretion. The concentration of sodium and chloride is lower than that in plasma, while the concentration of potassium is somewhat higher. The concentration of chloride depends on many factors and is usually in the range of 15 to 60 meq\L. The sodium concentration is almost entirely equivalent to that of chloride and varies in a parallel fashion. Chloride and sodium concentrations rise with prolongation of sweating and with the rate of sweating and temperature of the skin. The salt concentration of sweat also depends on the intake, and an adequate supply of drinking water depress the concentration. The loss of potassium through the skin ranges between 2.7 and 3.1 meq\L.

Nitrogen compounds are almost lost transdermally , and the concentration of urea in sweat is twice as high as that in the blood. Creatinine is present in sweat in only a minute amount, and amino acids have also been noted. Ammonia is a primary constituent of sweat, and it can be concentrated by the sweat glands with nearly the same efficiency as the renal excreting unit. Large amounts of lactic acid and lactate have been demonstrated in sweat, particularly during heavy musuclar exercise and in association with thermogenic sweat. The concentrations are 10 to 20 times higher then that in the blood, and it is felt that the lactic acid originates from breakdown of glycogen within the sweat glands.