# What is Gravity? (split from The Nature of Gravitons)

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Is Gravity Mass induced Time dilation within a quantised space? and not gravity waves but time dilation percussion across the quantised field?

What is Gravity?

Mass curves Space Time which means Time has to travel a greater distance along the curved space then at flat space. Time always travels at the same speed (always the same from the perspective of the observer).

Because space is quantised and there is a greater distance to travel along curved space then flat space, it takes longer for time to travel along the greater distance of curved space which causes time dilation.

There is a fixed amount of energy within the quanta of space time. When time is required to travel the greater distance over curved space this requires additional energy to do so which is not available within the quanta causing a low energy region within curved Space Time.

Time at normal Space Time energy levels is forced towards the low energy level of curved Space Time causing movement of Time towards the low energy level in an increasing level of acceleration. This is due to the continually decreasing amount of energy towards the centre of mass as the centre of mass has the lowest energy level.

Distance, Speed over Time. Time has changed, distance and speed remain the same which causes momentum. This is why when you free fall you experience zero gravity as you are falling at the speed Time is moving towards the low energy of Mass i.e. Earth. When you stop falling and stand on Earth you stop moving with Time and from Times perspective accelerating towards the centre of Earth you are accelerating in the opposite direction of Time away from the centre of Earth.

Because Space Time is bound by Time (Mass which includes Earth and our bodies) we feel the velocity of this acceleration in the opposite direction of Time as Gravity.

How is the fabric of Space Time curved?

There is a fixed amount of energy within a quanta of the fabric of Space Time. Mass draws energy out of the quanta. The more massive the mass is the more energy is drawn creating a low energy region in the quanta and therefore in the fabric of Space Time.

The sum of energy of Mass and the quanta always remains the same.

Total quanta energy – Energy of Mass = the curvature of space time.

The centre of Mass is the most dense aka has the most energy drawn from the quanta therefore the centre of Mass has the lowest energy and the deepest curvature in the fabric of Space Time.

What is Time?

The more Mass (lower quanta energy) the slower time is. Time at the singularity would have stopped (zero quanta energy) and time without Mass would have infinite time.

Time is the dilation of quantised space. The speed of time of the observer remains the same because the energy that makes up the body of the observer is within the equation of mass and that quantised space and runs at the speed the quanta energy is running at i.e. everything within the quanta runs at the speed of the quanta clock. Different mass quanta equations equal different quanta clock speeds i.e. More mass at black hole, less energy, slower time, slower quanta clock. Quanta clock on earth, less gravity, runs faster then black hole.

Edited by 3WM
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Gravity is simply  spacetime geometry.

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Like the heavy ball curving stretched out fabric model? All thought I agree with the model in how space time looks its probably just me but this model needs an external force to push down on the ball to curve the fabric and when the model is being demonstrated, gravity pulls down on the ball to warp the fabric but then we are saying that the curve of the fabric is gravity. What is pulling down / in on mass in space to warp space to create the curve in the fabric of spacetime which is gravity? Cheers

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3 hours ago, 3WM said:

Like the heavy ball curving stretched out fabric model? All thought I agree with the model in how space time looks its probably just me but this model needs an external force to push down on the ball to curve the fabric and when the model is being demonstrated, gravity pulls down on the ball to warp the fabric but then we are saying that the curve of the fabric is gravity. What is pulling down / in on mass in space to warp space to create the curve in the fabric of spacetime which is gravity? Cheers

It's indistinguishable in relativity, curvature and gravity. They tend to be saying the same thing, two sides of a different coin if you will. Gravity is a pseudo force, so we'll need to be clear about what we mean when we ask questions like ''what is pulling down on and around spacetime to cause the curvature?'' A simple case of a planet like ours with mass, it is pretty much near spherical because of spacetime curvature. Curvature is the presence of mass and energy and the curvature is more significant the denser the object. So it is mass that is affecting the spacetime structure giving rise to gravity and further, in fact all types of energy distorts the fabric of spacetime.

Curvature also doesn't make much sense without a concept of four dimensional space.

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Thank you.

So mass and energy or should we just say energy because mass is essentially energy right?

Curviture is the 'presence' of energy? What do you mean by presence? Do you mean just because energy is present it curves spacetime? Or does the energy of mass affect spacetime in some way which causes curviture? And if so how is the presence of energy in spacetime curving spacetime?

Cheers

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Mass can be thought of as a condensed form of energy yes. Just as energy can be often be taken as a diffusion of mass.

Presence means local vicinity of. So if you have a bunch of particles in local vicinity, they will exert a spacetime disturbance. Hell, even a particle should disturb the vacuum in some way albeit, very small. It is a ''response'' mechanism to how matter should travel in space - a curve in space may conserve energy making it the most plausible geodesic (principle of least action). In relativity, we call the method to calculate those curvatures as Parallel Transport.

How is energy affecting spacetime? Because spacetime is not nothing, it is dynamical.

This is why famously people have said, the Einstein field equations explain how one side states matter tells space how to curve, whereas the other side space (geometry) tells matter how to move.

My typos are bad today, sorry, fixed.

Edited by Dubbelosix
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22 minutes ago, Dubbelosix said:

Mass can be thought of as a condensed form of energy yes. Just as energy can be often be taken as a diffusion of mass.

!

Moderator Note

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It is mainstream. Matter actually is a condensed form of energy, sorry you don't like that Swansont. I know you like making these public declarations, but I don't need to put in my effort here.

Read a very nice book by David Bodanis called E=mc^2. He explains why energy is a diffused mass and why matter is a condensed form of energy.

wrote that wrong fixed it

Now in what context we think it is a condensed form of energy is unclear, only that in physics, mass translates as a lot of energy through a conversion factor. It is in effect, a condensed form of energy - the atom itself, harbours a great deal of what could otherwise be free energy.

But its trapped there and by simply splitting the atom, we can in effect release all the energy inside of it - a funny thing is, Einstein once considered this impossible to do.

I find it ironic because his own theory predicts the convertibility.

Edited by Dubbelosix
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9 hours ago, 3WM said:

Like the heavy ball curving stretched out fabric model? All thought I agree with the model in how space time looks its probably just me but this model needs an external force to push down on the ball to curve the fabric and when the model is being demonstrated, gravity pulls down on the ball to warp the fabric but then we are saying that the curve of the fabric is gravity. What is pulling down / in on mass in space to warp space to create the curve in the fabric of spacetime which is gravity? Cheers

It is just an analogy. You can’t take it too seriously.

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yes an analogy.

But not too far from the truth.

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Dubbelosix

Thank you.

What I am trying to conclude is what is the interaction between mass / energy and spacetime and how actually does mass / energy curve space time.

All the explanations I have read and watched explain WHAT is happening but are not saying HOW it is happening.

Are you able to direct me to a lecture or material that explains what is mass / energy doing to spacetime to warp it?

No probs about typo’s I wouldn’t be able to tell any way haha

swansont

String theory is essentially explaining how everything is energy which is kinda mainstream now.

Its ok to include non mainstream ideas. My theory which I posted is not mainstream at all and I am looking for comments for or against what I have posted to improve my understanding.

Strange

Haha that is actually quite good you see my dilemma

The mass of the ball is warping spacetime which is causing the curve which is gravity.

I am surmising with my post that there is an interaction with the energy of mass that is either adding to or subtracting away from the energy within the spacetime field and the result of this energy difference is creating the curve of spacetime and the curve is gravity… but what IS gravity? We cannot say because there is a curve the ball rolls into the centre of the curve because this requires the outside force like the pictures and with mass in curved space alone doesn’t explain they there is a constant pull of gravity (or the feel of acceleration)?

Time of course is affected by this curve in spacetime and as explained with the elevator demonstration that acceleration / deceleration is the same as gravity, I am saying that the deceleration of Time (as spacetime is curved so the speed of Time is changing not just moving linier) towards the most dense part of Mass its centre, means that when we are in the elevator on Earth on the surface Time is decelerating past us towards the centre of Earth but the ground is preventing the elevator to move with Time and keeps the elevator in a fixed location on the ground but in the acceleration equation has the “change in time” part to it which is what is happening because we know that the clock at the top of the tower runs faster than the clock at the bottom of the tower.

If we move in time with Times deceleration i.e. in free fall, we no longer feel Times dilation and feel weightlessness.

So I am saying that the feel of gravity (what it is) is the dilation of Time (Time deceleration) when a body is in a fixed position and Time is in a constant state of deceleration because there is a constant change in time / curve in time within that space.

The curve in spacetime in a 2D picture can also represent the deceleration of time over distance?

Cheers

Edited by 3WM
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Yes I will look for material for you and will post it up today or tomorrow.

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To better explain my theory, I have used the Newton vs Einstein Apple fall conflict. You cant watch at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdC0QN6f3G

Regarding Einstein's graph I understand that that graph may be not what Einstein drew him self and could be wrong but let me know your thoughts all the same.

Cheers

NewtonEinstineSaulApple.pdf

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Sorry, I got the wrong thread earlier, you wanted me to get papers for you. What exactly do you understand about the term ''spacetime distortion?''

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Hi, no probs.

Umm well I understand spacetime distortion to arise from a trigonometry of Spacetime being Mass, Speed & Time acting as one unit.

For example, there can be all of one and none of the others or some of all but must balance to ensure the total sum isn’t more or less then all of one.

1. There can be infinite mass with no time or speed.
2. There can be infinite speed with no time or mass.
3. There can be infinite time with no mass or speed.
4. And you can have a balance between mass, speed and time as long as total sum doesn't equal more then the total of one.

Time is relative right? but we say time is a constant in empty space and light travels at 300 etc mps in the vacuum of space and we wonder why light travels that fast? But then we are happy to conclude that mass slows light down because of the curvature of space caused by mass.

But hang on a minute... if mass like a planet, sun black hole etc or (any mass really) slows light down from 300 etc mps, then hang on a second we are living in a universe which in it self is mass in space so if we continue with the mass slows the speed of light down then surly the fact there is a universe present and all its overall mass and therefore the overall curvature has caused light to slow down from infinity?? to its current speed of 300 mps.

Time and the speed of light is intrinsically bound together as both are slowed down by curved space.

If we apply the principle described above to time then the presents of the universe and the overall curve of spacetime by the universe has also slowed time down from infinity also to its present speed.

If we evac matter out of our universe then there will be less mass and things will start to speed up as more mass is evaced out.

So basically what I am saying is there is no flat space in our universe and because it has an overall mass bend in its spacetime that is why we have time and that is why the speed of light is the speed of light.

Imagine time dilation from an observer outside of our universe. The observer only has the mass of them self to slow time but they look in the distance and see our universe. To this observer who's time is travelling near infinity will see our universe flash up and disappear in a blink of an eye but of course to those inside the universe that blink of an eye is billions and billions of years due to time dilation.

Sorry digressed. My original question was what is Einstein or others saying how mass / energy bends spacetime. Are they saying mass is energy in or out of spacetime to cause it to bend?

Cheers

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On 11/11/2017 at 0:39 AM, 3WM said:

swansont

String theory is essentially explaining how everything is energy which is kinda mainstream now.

Its ok to include non mainstream ideas. My theory which I posted is not mainstream at all and I am looking for comments for or against what I have posted to improve my understanding.

!

Moderator Note

1. The topic of the original thread was gravitons, not string theory.

2. Whether it is OK to include non-mainstream ideas is not your call to make. Responses to speculations need to be mainstream physics.

3. I just noticed the inclusion of your pet theory in a thread you did not start. This is known as thread hijacking, and it's against the rules. It has been split into a new thread. Don't hijack threads.

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