Sign in to follow this  
Outrider

Mental retardation

Recommended Posts

2 minutes ago, Outrider said:

and if you are going to assert they are wrong then you need to provide some citations of your own.

 

Since I didn't assert any such thing why would I need to?   

8 minutes ago, Outrider said:

I largely agree with this and only want to add that sometimes changing our words can help change attitudes. 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     Words won't change attitudes without education...                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, dimreepr said:

Since I didn't assert any such thing why would I need to?   

You specifically said "it really has nothing to do with the words we use."

Why is it do you think they want people to stop using the r word?

It's because they think it has alot to do with the words we use.

Do you remember when I said it would help if you would read the links?

It really would!

http://www.r-word.org/r-word-why-pledge.aspx#.WezQBXNOm7N

 

Quote

Our campaign asks people to pledge to stop saying the R-word as a starting point toward creating more accepting attitudes and communities for all people.  Language affects attitudes and attitudes affect actions.  Pledge today to use respectful, people-first language.

There is my cite thats words do matter can I see yours claiming they don't or would you rather just withdrawal your comment?

 

1 hour ago, dimreepr said:

Words won't change attitudes without education...       

Of course not no one has claimed they will. But it is funny how you mention it since you stubbornly refuse to educate yourself on this issue. I have provided links where you can do just that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To be fair, I agree 100% with Dimreeper in that you're not helping your case when citing this website. What does their support or dissent have to do with anything at all? What sort of citation or proof is that? It doesn't make much sense to me.

I mean, I agree with you to a certain extent, especially since we found common ground in the discussion, but this part is meaningless.

Edited by Lord Antares

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You don't understand because you won't go read. I have told you this before these are the experts in this field. These are the organizations that work with and for disabled people every day. Where else would you go to get an educated opinon on the matter. Your not disabled, you don't take care of anyone disabled so why do think your opinion is better than those who are and do?

The site is ran by  The Joseph P. Kennedy Jr. Foundation for the Benefit of Persons with Intellectual Disabilities and supported by The Special Olympics if that helps any.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Outrider said:

I have told you this before these are the experts in this field.

And?

We're not discussing science. We're discussing ethics (or whatever). So what does one's credibility matter and how does one even have more credibility in ethics?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Outrider I think people are asking why the experts think the way they do, rather than a simple restatement that they do or their credentials, and maybe evidence and/or anecdotes demonstrating the harm done to nail home the point.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Words have context; It is context that makes them offensive or not.

You cannot say " this timing belt is chronologically challenged " when you mean the timing is retarded by so many degrees.
Or are we getting so ridiculous that describing a timing belt scan be considered offensive ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It has been tangentially been addressed, but a big part of the word itself is that it was used as a medical term and while it has been abandoned by the medical community it was used in situations where it created ambiguity in terms of its use (i.e. description or insult). This is also the reason why experts would prefer it not to be used as it might still associate their patients with something which is now fully used as an insult.

I suspect the difference between retard and moron (or similar) could be due to the fact that the latter may have been abandoned from scholarly used faster or earlier. Either way,  word usages and the offense taken in their use are historic and change with societal context. For examples just take a look when 'black' was considered more offensive than 'negro'. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm also of the opinion that insults of any kind , whether moron, idiot, stupid or even retard, don't belong in a discussion forum.

If you need to stoop to insults in a discussion, it means you've run out of arguments for your position.
Let's be civil people; And if someone asks you to stop using a word that offends them, concession is the civil thing to do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Lord Antares said:

We're not discussing science. We're discussing ethics (or whatever). So what does one's credibility matter and how does one even have more credibility in ethics?

They have more experience L.A. which gives them a better understanding of the situation IMO. I'm thinking of it in these terms who is in better position to decide how we use this word a doctor who treats mentally challenged patients, a parent of one of these patients, me or you?

I have some limited experience with mentally challenged people but I think from your reactions you have none. Am I wrong about that? This may be why we approaching this in such different ways. I understand that it's not all completely logical but I also understand I don't have know that my child will always be different from not only their peers(if they even have any) but their parent as well.

40 minutes ago, MigL said:

I'm  also of the opinion that insults of any kind , whether moron, idiot, stupid or even retard, don't belong in a discussion forum.

Or really anywhere else.

 

41 minutes ago, MigL said:

 

If you need to stoop to insults in a discussion, it means you've run out of arguments for your position.

Thats a great point if I have to insult you to win the argument not only have I already lost but I probaly know it too.

 

44 minutes ago, MigL said:

Let's be civil people; And if someone asks you to stop using a word that offends them, concession is the civil thing to do.

Your not the first to make it but it is the best point. If someone says thats offensive to me please stop and it's easy (like finding another word to convey a thought) to do what they ask why not just do it.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎22‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 0:58 PM, iNow said:

 and I still cringe when reading your comments about Malaysia’s backward approach to the topless selfie and the earthquake that followed. 

Fair enough  -  although I still cringe in embarrassment for the Malaysian people who have been portrayed by their prime minister as backward superstitious tribes people. I am angry that the poor young girl from my country was imprisoned for weeks in a foreign jail being threatened with a life of imprisonment due to their 'out of date and superstitious' beliefs. Seriously - I am glad I am not PM or I'd have sent in the SAS to rescue her. Announcing to the world that you believe the mountain spirits caused the quake due to the actions of a teenage girl is totally embarrassing in this day and age and I, personally, believe they should be ridiculed for this into rethinking their superstition.

 

11 hours ago, MigL said:

If you need to stoop to insults in a discussion, it means you've run out of arguments for your position.
Let's be civil people; And if someone asks you to stop using a word that offends them, concession is the civil thing to do.

so tell me MigL....  how can a law or an idea be insulted or offended? Or were you not including my use of the word as a verb in your statement here?

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, DrP said:

Fair enough  -  although I still cringe in embarrassment for the Malaysian people who have been portrayed by their prime minister as backward superstitious tribes people. I am angry that the poor young girl from my country was imprisoned for weeks in a foreign jail being threatened with a life of imprisonment due to their 'out of date and superstitious' beliefs. Seriously 

1

iNow's point is a cultural difference which should be respected despite logic; if I'm a guest in my neighbours house and their children misbehave according to my standards, would it be acceptable to admonish them?

Would that parent allow such admonition or would they get angry and kick your arse out of their home?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd tell the parents..  although the scenario is quite ambiguous and I'm not sure it is ideal at describing the situation.

I will try not to use the word in future (on here anyway) - although I despair at the PCs gone too far when you can't call a spade a spade but have to resort to calling it a manually operated mechanical earth moving implement. 

One last time though  -  the law that allowed people to rape their spouses that was only abolished 20 years ago was totally backwardly regressive, held back by religious definition of marriage, totally offensive to my being. By very definition of the word (NOT the mental definition, but the definition that means held back) it WAS retarded. And I won't apologise for saying so.

Also - the situation with the girl on the mountain was totally ridiculous and the PM of that country should rethink how he wants to portray his nations intellect to the rest of the world. The poor young girl was imprisoned and must have been terrified. Despite her lack of respect (although I am sure it wasn't made clear to her that she would go to prison for taking selfies on the mountain peak) she did not deserve imprisonment. I still think that describing their beliefs the way I did as an accurate use of the word with no relevance to mental retardation what so ever.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, DrP said:

although I despair at the PCs gone too far when you can't call a spade a spade but have to resort to calling it a manually operated mechanical earth moving implement. 

 

My point is, a spade is a spade whatever language we use, it's just that different cultures/languages use it differently; some dig to plant vegetables and some dig a grave.

Edited by dimreepr

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

My point is, a spade is a spade whatever language we use, it's just that different cultures/languages use it differently; some dig to plant vegetables and some dig a grave.

My point is that some people use it to indicate a person of dark skin (not me I hasten to add). I think it is wrong and offensive....  should we ban the word when talking about the digging implement because it has another meaning?

If a view or a law is backward and held back by some stupidity then it has been held back by that stupidity...  why should the word not be used  in this concept where it causes no offence except to people that don't understand that words have multiple meanings? Surely it is better to educate the offended person as to the context of the word which carries no offence? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think words should be banned either, DrP, as I previously said, context can dramatically change the intended meaning.

However...
As far as I know, there's no law against spitting, and the sidewalk surely can't be offended, but if I asked you not to spit in my presence because it offends me, what do you think would be the civil thing to do ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, MigL said:

if I asked you not to spit in my presence because it offends me, what do you think would be the civil thing to do ?

Walk with you into a closed elevator, press the button for the highest floor, and then fart.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh, that was you in the elevator the other day ?

edit; merged replies

Just wondering, Outrider...

You are reading Tom Sawyer or Huckleberry Finn to a bunch of kids ( in a classroom , say ).
Would you take the liberty of changing the way Joe and Jim are referred to in the stories ?
Or read it as written ?

Edited by MigL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

MigL

As a lifelong fan of Samuel Langhorne Clemens I would of course pick A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court it's the better read anyway.

That's the point in most settings we have a choice. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, DrP said:

I despair at the PCs gone too far when you can't call a spade a spade but have to resort to calling it a manually operated mechanical earth moving implement. 

Is there anywhere where that's real, rather than a parody?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, DrP said:

If a view or a law is backward and held back by some stupidity then it has been held back by that stupidity...  why should the word not be used  in this concept where it causes no offence except to people that don't understand that words have multiple meanings?

This maybe dosent apply on the board but what if you  are speaking in public how do you know there isn't someone in earshot that has the capability of understanding the insult but isn't able to understand how you are using the word? I have already conceded that there are certain situations where it would be really awkward to avoid it but I don't see that this is one of them. 

It's not so much that you  should not. 

Its more like it would be nice if you did not.

5 hours ago, DrP said:

Surely it is better to educate the offended person as to the context of the word which carries no offence? 

Yes that's the better option I assume you will take care of that for me. Just kidding. It really would be a nice world if everybody had your level of education but thats just not the reality we have. So now the better educated among us are being asked, as a favor to the less-fortunate, to express their selves in a different way. 

 

5 hours ago, DrP said:

 

I will try not to use the word in future (on here anyway)

Thank You!

Edited by Outrider

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, John Cuthber said:

Is there anywhere where that's real, rather than a parody?

Not that I am aware of - sorry if I gave the impression that it was the case   -  it was my very own straw man I built to hit about. I was just saying that the word retarded has other meanings beside the out of date medical term and the word should not be discarded due to the over sensitivity of the PC brigade who might only know of one use of it.

11 hours ago, Outrider said:

what if you  are speaking in public how do you know there isn't someone in earshot that has the capability of understanding the insult but isn't able to understand how you are using the word?

but there was no insult - that would be their own misinterpretation of the word. How will they learn if their error is not pointed out? Who told them it was offensive anyway?

 

11 hours ago, Outrider said:

So now the better educated among us are being asked, as a favor to the less-fortunate, to express their selves in a different way. 

I do not think that fair at all and I despise the very thought of holding back society because a very small few do not understand basic language which is clearly laid out in any dictionary worth more than £5.00 or free on the internet. My cynicism level regarding the ability of the human race to survive is increasing daily. Although, I have already said that I will try not to use the word when describing views and laws on here. I hate using a sentence though when 1 word sums it up plainly. How would you describe the law I was discussing?

 

 

This is how things like Brexit and Trump happen  -  *you preach to the converted and let true offenders go about their business or ignore them or label them as a lost cause. Get out of your information bubbles and talk to some working class people. Vote in a party that will spend money on education for the masses not just the rich so everyone knows what you are talking about.

*you here does not mean 'you' outrider - it is a generic rant towards the left wing and libs...  of which I am probably one well and truly now and have been sometime but haven't always been. Talk to the people that use the term Libtard! They are the ones you need to convince.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, DrP said:

Talk to the people that use the term Libtard! They are the ones you need to convince.  

 

Indeed, since the basic tenant of the American pledge of allegiance "Liberty and Justice for all" is about as liberal as it gets.

Quote

Liberalism is a political philosophy or worldview founded on ideas of liberty and equality.[1][2][3] Liberals espouse a wide array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but generally they support ideas and programmes such as freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of religion, free markets, civil rights, democraticsocieties, secular governments, gender equality and international cooperation.[4][5][6][7][8][9][10]

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I admit that I'm slightly mentally challenged, therefore I probably won't be able to understand general relativity, quantum field theory and string theory in my lifetime.

Mathematics is the language of physics but unfortunately for me the mathematics is just way too difficult for me to understand and to memorize all the advanced mathematical concepts and principles is also really difficult because you need to have a really good memory to do that.

I really love physics but given that I'm slightly mentally retarded I don't think that a lifetime career in physics is a good and realistic career option for me.

I guess that just like everyone can't be an astronaut or a successful pilot because you need to be superhealthy to become an astronaut or a pilot for that matter then likewise not everyone can become a successful mathematical physicist and that's because mathematics is really difficult to learn for many people.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, seriously disabled said:

I admit that I'm slightly mentally challenged, therefore I probably won't be able to understand general relativity, quantum field theory and string theory in my lifetime.

Mathematics is the language of physics but unfortunately for me the mathematics is just way too difficult for me to understand and to memorize all the advanced mathematical concepts and principles is also really difficult because you need to have a really good memory to do that.

I really love physics but given that I'm slightly mentally retarded I don't think that a lifetime career in physics is a good and realistic career option for me.

I guess that just like everyone can't be an astronaut or a successful pilot because you need to be superhealthy to become an astronaut or a pilot for that matter then likewise not everyone can become a successful mathematical physicist and that's because mathematics is really difficult to learn for many people.

What's your point in the context of this thread? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this