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Outrider

Mental retardation

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Well, we can quibble about the semantics but I fail to see how I'm wrong with my initial post.  

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12 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

Well, we can quibble about the semantics but I fail to see how I'm wrong with my initial post.  

I agree with just about everything you have said in this thread. I'm  not ignoring you and if you had "inner peace" like me it wouldn't bother you if I was.:cool:

1 minute ago, dimreepr said:

Strangely, you're not helping... 

What part of please do not use the word do you not understand?

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2 minutes ago, Outrider said:

I agree with just about everything you have said in this thread. I'm  not ignoring you and if you had "inner peace" like me it wouldn't bother you if I was.:cool:

LOL, what do you think "inner peace" means?

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17 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

LOL, what do you think "inner peace" means?

It was just a little joke based on that seems to be your answer for most things I actually like you as a poster and it was meant to be a friendly jab. Sorry if you didn't take it that way and also gor getting us off topic.

2 hours ago, Lord Antares said:

Yes, that's what I'm saying. I don't see the logic behind it. I would like to hear the justification from the people who think it's unnaceptable.

Tell you what from now on when somebody posts something stupid I'll say stop being a Lord Antares and I doubt anybody will have to explain how thats insulting to you. Of course I won't do that.

When you make a comparison it unavoidably goes both ways. When someone is being stubborn or deliberately obtuse and you call them mentally disabled you imply that those with disabilities choose to be that way.

Thats one heres another.

There are people who discriminate harshly towards the mentally disabled rising to the level of persecution in some cases. When you call a bad person retarded you reinforce notions that mentally disabled persons are bad. 

Or you could just stop because they asked you too. I have no idea why thats so hard maybe you could explain that to me.

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No apology necessary, but I'd still like to know what you think 'inner peace' means?

 

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23 minutes ago, Outrider said:

When you make a comparison it unavoidably goes both ways. When someone is being stubborn or deliberately obtuse and you call them mentally disabled you imply that those with disabilities choose to be that way.

No, I don't. Why would I do that? I simply wish to tell the person he has low intelligence. I wouldn't say that to a disabled person, of course.

25 minutes ago, Outrider said:

Or you could just stop because they asked you too. I have no idea why thats so hard maybe you could explain that to me.

What I want you to explain is why you would persecute the word ''retarded'' and not the words ''moron'' or ''idiot''? They all mean the same things. All of these used to be medical terms referring to mentally slow people? So why does the word ''retarded'' bear so much taboo and the other words don't?

I've asked this many times throughout the thread, without proper answer. Why can I call someone an idiot and not a retard? Why isn't simply calling someone stupid insulting to the people of low intelligence? This is contradictory to me. This isn't an attack, it's just a logical question.

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16 hours ago, Outrider said:

 

DrP said

 You had plenty of synonyms. Why did you go with the most offensive term.

 

I used it to describe a law not a person. Mental disability was not implied and it was aimed at no person. But I hear you.

I find the law I was describing, which was changed 20 years ago thankful, pretty offensive and so far out of date I do not know how else to describe it.

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30 minutes ago, Lord Antares said:

No, I don't. Why would I do that? I simply wish to tell the person he has low intelligence. I wouldn't say that to a disabled person, of course.

But you did. I do realize it was not intentional but there gets a point where intention dosent matter.

If you call me a grapefruit you are saying I am in some way similar to the grapefruit (who got the bigger insult I dont know) but you are also saying the grapefruit is in the same way similar to me. I am sorry but there is no way around that.

If I call a sot an Irishman I am implying that all Irish are drunks. Any word I use as an insult that can be traced back to a particular group of people is in fact an insult to that group.

41 minutes ago, Lord Antares said:

What I want you to explain is why you would persecute the word ''retarded'' and not the words ''moron'' or ''idiot''? They all mean the same things. All of these used to be medical terms referring to mentally slow people? So why does the word ''retarded'' bear so much taboo and the other words don't?

I've asked this many times throughout the thread, without proper answer. Why can I call someone an idiot and not a retard? Why isn't simply calling someone stupid insulting to the people of low intelligence? This is contradictory to me. This isn't an attack, it's just a logical question.

I did give the short answer to that in a reply to John and that is I really dont use those words either and wish you wouldn't. 

The main reason this particular word over the others is because the group that it hurts says it's the most hurtful. Now I'm just guessing but I think it is because it is the most ingrained. When is the last time you libidiot or reporon? Also maybe because idiot and moron felt into disuse in the medical profession a long time ago. This word was abandoned in more recent memory. 

45 minutes ago, DrP said:

I used it to describe a law not a person. Mental disability was not implied and it was aimed at no person. But I hear you.

I find the law I was describing, which was changed 20 years ago thankful, pretty offensive and so far out of date I do not know how else to describe it.

Thank you for your acknowledgement.

You described the law in 5 different ways in your post so I think you can if you want to.

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At work we use a cellulose thickener in our products. To slow the thickening process we use a retarded grade. It has a dissolvable coating that slows the process to better incorporate the additive and it makes for easier mixing. It is advertised as a retarded grade. It's not wrong, it is just a word that describes something that is held back.

In the context I used the word I was describing a law that had been held back... presumably by the religious definition of marriage. I don't know. In this context, imo, it was religion that retarded the law. It has nothing to do with mental health in this context and is just a word in the English language. 

 

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5 hours ago, Lord Antares said:

Is calling challenged people retarded the topic or is calling unchallenged people retarded the topic?

Yes.

They’re not mutually exclusive. It’s both. 

11 hours ago, Lord Antares said:

why is there a fuss about ''retarded'' and not ''moron'', for example?

 

8 hours ago, Lord Antares said:

Why is ''idiot'' so widely accepted and ''retarded'' is not?

 

8 hours ago, Lord Antares said:

why does no one jump at being called an idiot and they do at being called a retard?

7 hours ago, Lord Antares said:

I don't see the logic behind it. I would like to hear the justification from the people who think it's unnaceptable.

Please consider this possibility: Maybe it’s because large swaths of the population weren’t summarily labeled as idiots or morons and thrown into asylums like prisoners. Maybe it’s because there’s no massive population of people who were previously classified as idiots by us in the majority actively asking the rest of us to stop using the term. 

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12 hours ago, John Cuthber said:

Really?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignition_timing#Setting_the_ignition_timing

By all means deprecate it as a description of people, but don't ban the word.

Maybe he got his definition of the word from google or a cheap dictionary that only defines the mental health description of the word. Maybe the OP should purchase a better dictionary...  the Oxford and the Cambridge dictionaries I have read seem to do a good job of giving all and multiple definitions/meanings of words. None of them are perfect...  the full sized ones come in volumes like an encyclopedia, but I find the cheap ones unsuitable for defining words for intelligent debate. 

 

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28 minutes ago, DrP said:

Maybe he got his definition of the word from google or a cheap dictionary that only defines the mental health description of the word. Maybe the OP should purchase a better dictionary...  the Oxford and the Cambridge dictionaries I have read seem to do a good job of giving all and multiple definitions/meanings of words. None of them are perfect...  the full sized ones come in volumes like an encyclopedia, but I find the cheap ones unsuitable for defining words for intelligent debate. 

 

It doesn't get cheaper than free.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/retard

 

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Looks like his dictionary only defines the noun and not the verb. 

...also, is it the case that it is more offensive in the US rather than the UK? I don't think it is acceptable to call anyone a retard, but the word is just a normal word when used as a verb.

 

I still support that it is correct to call an idea or a thought retarded...  (not the person). I had a post deleted the other year when I said that the VIEWS of the Malaysian government were retarded when they imprisoned a British girl for taking a topless selfie on a mountain.  There was an earthquake a short time after and they blamed her actions for the earthquake. They said she upset the mountain spirits and they caused the earthquake. I did not say that the Malaysian PM was retarded...  of course not. I said that his BELIEF that the photo and the girls actions could anger the spirits that then sent the earthquake was retarded. Does anyone feel that these views are not retarded by our current understanding of the world? Does anyone still think that I am using the word with offence towards the mentally ill? It is not the case - read the dictionary. 

The view taken by the Malaysian PM was hundreds of years behind the times...  it was by very definition of the word - retarded. No offence or relevance even to mental retardation at all.   

Edited by DrP

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Perhaps there are relevant cultural differences and the impact of using this word is different in UK than US. I know the various many meanings, and I still cringe when reading your comments about Malaysia’s backward approach to the topless selfie and the earthquake that followed. 

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28 minutes ago, iNow said:

Perhaps there are relevant cultural differences and the impact of using this word is different in UK than US. I know the various many meanings, and I still cringe when reading your comments about Malaysia’s backward approach to the topless selfie and the earthquake that followed. 

But "backward" has long been used as synonym for idiot, stupid, retarded, etc. So I don't think you should use that word. Please find another one.

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12 minutes ago, Strange said:

But "backward" has long been used as synonym for idiot, stupid, retarded, etc. So I don't think you should use that word. Please find another one.

So has "Strange"- you need to change your name.

:)

 

Incidentally, as far as I can tell, the word is less often used in the UK- at least as an insult; I doubt it's used "formally" either.

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7 minutes ago, John Cuthber said:

Incidentally, as far as I can tell, the word is less often used in the UK- at least as an insult; I doubt it's used "formally" either.

I agree. 

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19 hours ago, Outrider said:

Now I'm just guessing but I think it is because it is the most ingrained. When is the last time you libidiot or reporon? Also maybe because idiot and moron felt into disuse in the medical profession a long time ago. This word was abandoned in more recent memory. 

Thank you. You've acknowledged and addressed what I was asking at last. I think you're actually right.

I don't think you're right that it SHOULD be more offensive than other synonymous words, but it's the reason it IS.

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On 10/21/2017 at 5:17 AM, Strange said:

Indeed. It is a word that is very widely used in engineering and other fields. I don't see that changing just because it is also used as an insult. 

Correct. 

17 hours ago, DrP said:

At work we use a cellulose thickener in our products. To slow the thickening process we use a retarded grade. It has a dissolvable coating that slows the process to better incorporate the additive and it makes for easier mixing. It is advertised as a retarded grade. It's not wrong, it is just a word that describes something that is held back.

Correct. 

15 hours ago, John Cuthber said:

Really?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignition_timing#Setting_the_ignition_timing

By all means deprecate it as a description of people, but don't ban the word.

Correct.

I am sorry it took me so long to acknowledge that this word is correctly used in industry all the time. I admit my "any and all uses of the word" was pretentious and heavy handed and most likely wrong.

52 minutes ago, Lord Antares said:

Thank you. You've acknowledged and addressed what I was asking at last. I think you're actually right.

And thank you. 

It's  not really my request but those who suffer this disability and those who care for them.

52 minutes ago, Lord Antares said:

I don't think you're right that it SHOULD be more offensive than other synonymous words, but it's the reason it IS.

I can agree with that but I have seen first hand how this word affects people. Those with moderate to light disability understand the word very well and identify with it in ways that they don't idiot, stupid and moron. I can't exactly tell you why that is the case although I and iNow have made some suggestions. We both know that should be and is are often two very different things.

Edited by Outrider
I can't spell.

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22 hours ago, Outrider said:

What part of please do not use the word do you not understand?

 

The reason I suggested you aren't helping, is that it really has nothing to do with the words we use. We can ban all the words that have a negative connotation in this context, but some nasty bugger will just come up with new words that become/are just as insulting; words aren't the problem, it's the attitude of those that wield them, the only way to stop the merry-go-round is to teach people about brakes.

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1 hour ago, dimreepr said:

The reason I suggested you aren't helping, is that it really has nothing to do with the words we use.

No thats just wrong the words we use have a big influence on the people we come in contact with every day. I gave you a list of over 200 organizations who say its wrong to use this word (in certain contexts DrP et al) and if you are going to assert they are wrong then you need to provide some citations of your own.

1 hour ago, dimreepr said:

We can ban all the words that have a negative connotation in this context, but some nasty bugger will just come up with new words that become/are just as insulting; words aren't the problem, it's the attitude of those that wield them, the only way to stop the merry-go-round is to teach people about brakes.

I largely agree with this and only want to add that sometimes changing our words can help change attitudes. 

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