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Multiculturalism vs. diversity


Moreno
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Surely multiculturalism implies a measure of separation between cultures and therefore a limitation to the degree of intermixing, therey preserving diversity.

Even if this is not the case humans will, it seems, always find ways of distinguishing themselves from others. We may choose to call these subcultures, but in some cases I suggest they are more distinct from the culture they have arisen from than supposedly distinct cultures are from it. Example: I suspect I have much more in common with Mr. Average from Trinidad than I do with a Hell's Angel.

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38 minutes ago, Moreno said:

Is it good?

Can you clarify what you mean? are you assuming that when people of different ethnicities mix they will move towards a global average ethnicity, or are you assuming that an ethnic grouping from the assumed free world will over power all the different global ethnicities? How would politics work, are you thinking of a benign world government with a global police force policing the world? What ethnic food would you eat, how would you dress, who would be in charge the Chinese, Americans, Russians, Moslems, Christians etc.

I like travelling and meeting people with different mind sets politics and cultures, it broadens the mind. I am also boarder line anarchistic in some of my views as are many people who travel.

I would say having a global culture where everyone behaves the same would NOT be beneficial, nor would it be likely to happen anytime in the near future.  

1 minute ago, Area54 said:

Surely multiculturalism implies a measure of separation between cultures and therefore a limitation to the degree of intermixing, therey preserving diversity.

Even if this is not the case humans will, it seems, always find ways of distinguishing themselves from others. We may choose to call these subcultures, but in some cases I suggest they are more distinct from the culture they have arisen from than supposedly distinct cultures are from it. Example: I suspect I have much more in common with Mr. Average from Trinidad than I do with a Hell's Angel.

Mr Average from Trinidad is just as likely to smoke cannabis as is your traditional hells angel. However people riding Harley Davidsons looking like hells angels on the weekend are today most likely executives or merchant bankers, who wear suits to work.

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1 hour ago, Moreno said:

But when all ethnicities and nation will intermix there will be no diversity anymore.

Hasn't happened in the last few thousand years and I see no reason why that will change.

14 minutes ago, Handy andy said:

However people riding Harley Davidsons looking like hells angels on the weekend are today most likely executives or merchant bankers, who wear suits to work.

But real Hell's Angels are something else again.

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2 minutes ago, Strange said:

But real Hell's Angels are something else again.

I think that depends on the class social group and education of the hells angel in question, also the country they originate from etc. I used to know some nice hells angels, I was also aware of some dangerous hells angels who were possibly better suited to living in prison rather than riding a motor bike. The point being you cant judge a persons because of the social group they move in.

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There will always be diversity: education, economics, age, diet, religion, and etc. In places where there isn't much racial or ethnic diversity people still separate themselves by other things.

 

In my opinion the less people concern themselves with their own perceived cultural norms the better. One of the more burdensome things about my job is the I must shave daily. It is considered more professional. My face hates it! I have tried many different razors and lotions but the discomfort persists. It is a stupid cultural norm that causes me to shave. In no way does it change who I am. It merely changes the way other perceive me, but why does it matter, why should other give a rats bottom whether or not I shave daily vs weekly?

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1 hour ago, Ten oz said:

 In no way does it change who I am. It merely changes the way other perceive me, but why does it matter, why should other give a rats bottom whether or not I shave daily vs weekly?

So, even if your cultural situation allowed to shave daily you would still be a subjugated wage slave? Interesting position to take.

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3 minutes ago, Area54 said:

So, even if your cultural situation allowed to shave daily you would still be a subjugated wage slave? Interesting position to take.

Slave is a stronger word than I would use but there are many things which which are culturally forced/pressured to do for employment which do not impact performance or productivity. How a person wears their hair, whether or not they shave, and etc are things that should be left to personal choice in my opinion. It is worse for women. In most office environments women are excepted to have shave legs, under arms, and natural hairless faces. While not written into them rules by many employers societal norms demand it.

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I have to shave daily also, if I'm working.
But not because society demands a hairless face, rather, it's  condition of employment as my job may require me to wear supplied air breathing equipment in an emergency situation.
Safety considerations can, do, and should trump societal norms. 

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18 hours ago, Ten oz said:

Slave is a stronger word than I would use

Just throwing in a bit of Cicero and Marx for contrast.

 

7 hours ago, koti said:

These two are virtually synonyms in the current geo-political reality so I have to ask what are you asking/talking about ?

You may be right, but I perceive multiculturalism as referencing things like the mix, in the UK, of Afro-Caribean, Indian sub-continent and traditional "British" cultures. Diversity would be the variations present in each of these. I suspect the OP has yet another take on it.

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43 minutes ago, Area54 said:

You may be right, but I perceive multiculturalism as referencing things like the mix, in the UK, of Afro-Caribean, Indian sub-continent and traditional "British" cultures. Diversity would be the variations present in each of these. I suspect the OP has yet another take on it.

That is the popular view however in places where there are few differences in national origin people still  develop different cultural norms. Here in the United States a person raised Sant George Utah would be in for a culture shock if they moved to Seattle Washington.

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I'd expect multicultural, multilingual television to ameliorate culture shock in many cases. Moreover, future shock is, I think, more troubling for people. People can adapt to a new culture, or they may return to theirs.

 

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32 minutes ago, EdEarl said:

I'd expect multicultural, multilingual television to ameliorate culture shock in many cases. Moreover, future shock is, I think, more troubling for people. People can adapt to a new culture, or they may return to theirs.

 

Nazis chanting "Jews will not replace us" in Charlottesville Virginia and a President that ran his campaign on a platform of building a wall and banning Muslims are strong indications that people seriously struggle with matters of culture. Wars have been and are currently being fought over it. From Hilter's gas chambers to ISIS executing those who practice Islam differently than they do the unwillingness to accept people of different cultures has been and continues to be one of the greater problems humans face. 

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2 hours ago, Ten oz said:

That is the popular view however in places where there are few differences in national origin people still  develop different cultural norms. Here in the United States a person raised Sant George Utah would be in for a culture shock if they moved to Seattle Washington.

If you moved from Kelvinside, a suburb of Glasgow, to Govan, a suburb of Glasgow you would be in for an equally big culture shock.

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1 hour ago, Ten oz said:

Nazis chanting "Jews will not replace us" in Charlottesville Virginia and a President that ran his campaign on a platform of building a wall and banning Muslims are strong indications that people seriously struggle with matters of culture. Wars have been and are currently being fought over it. From Hilter's gas chambers to ISIS executing those who practice Islam differently than they do the unwillingness to accept people of different cultures has been and continues to be one of the greater problems humans face. 

I loved this quote from the movie 'Bulworth' about 'racial deconstruction', but it would probably also be helpful in eliminating cultural issues.

Quote

White people, black people, brown people, yellow people, get rid of 'em all/ All we need is a voluntary, free spirited, open-ended program of procreative racial deconstruction/ Everybody just gotta keep fuckin' everybody til they're all the same color.

 

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1 hour ago, Ten oz said:

Nazis chanting "Jews will not replace us" in Charlottesville Virginia and a President that ran his campaign on a platform of building a wall and banning Muslims are strong indications that people seriously struggle with matters of culture. Wars have been and are currently being fought over it. From Hilter's gas chambers to ISIS executing those who practice Islam differently than they do the unwillingness to accept people of different cultures has been and continues to be one of the greater problems humans face. 

I agree that bigotry is a hugely important issue that has adversely affected millions or billions of people. I suppose some bigots have experienced culture shock, but I think most learn very little about their targets; thus, do not experience culture shock. Moreover, comparing bigotry to culture shock is apples to orangutans. My comparison of future shock to culture shock may be apples to oranges, but the resulting shock is the same for both. Moreover, both Hitler and Trump had/have ulterior motives for using bigots. I don't know about Hitler, but I think Trump is not a bigot; he dislikes everyone equally.

Edited by EdEarl
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2 hours ago, EdEarl said:

I agree that bigotry is a hugely important issue that has adversely affected millions or billions of people. I suppose some bigots have experienced culture shock, but I think most learn very little about their targets; thus, do not experience culture shock. Moreover, comparing bigotry to culture shock is apples to orangutans. My comparison of future shock to culture shock may be apples to oranges, but the resulting shock is the same for both. Moreover, both Hitler and Trump had/have ulterior motives for using bigots. I don't know about Hitler, but I think Trump is not a bigot; he dislikes everyone equally.

Classism is a form of bigotry and has nothing to do with race. People have found many ways to segregate themselves into tribes. This thread is asking about the value of accepting different cultures and groups. So in context culture shock isn't an issue but rather cultural preference is. If one moves from Utah to Washington and is treating poorly because of their culture or vice versa than it is a problem and totally equivalent to bigotry. My point about culture shock was that different cultures exist free from race or national origin. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On ‎9‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 8:38 AM, Area54 said:

Even if this is not the case humans will, it seems, always find ways of distinguishing themselves from others. 

Still I believe there exist a thing which can bring people of different races, religions, sexual orientations, etc, to a mutual understanding. This is the respect of law. And passion about legality. Personally, I agree to forgive someone who dislikes me, let say on the basis of my nationality, religion, political views etc. If they keep their feeling inside. I may not even react on their opinion expressed openly. Committing crimes, however, is a different thing. 

 

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Football is another thing which can bring different people together ;)

Assuming multiculturalism implies diverging lets say worldviews, I would think its "good" in sense that it creates dynamics in society and dynamics leads to progress. 

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