Where it's at

[Airbrush]

In grammar school I learned that it is not proper English to end a sentence with "at", such as in "I don't know where it's at", rather than standard English is "I don't know where it is".  Does anyone else ever think saying "where it's at" is an awkward usage?  It is very common to hear it, so much so that is now seems standard, but to me sounds uneducated.  Didn't those people learn in grammar school that is not appropriate English usage?  Do many of you prefer to use "where it's at" than "where it is"?  Does anyone else agree "where it's at" sounds wrong?

I understand the wide acceptance of the use of double negatives in a sentence, such as in "he doesn't know nothing!" rather than "he doesn't know anything!".  That puts emphasis on the negative, which makes sense to me because it communicates a negative.  It just sounds uneducated.

[Strange]

This idiotic "rule" about not ending sentences with propositions started out when the writer Dryden noted that "English sentences should not end in prepositions because Latin sentences cannot end in prepositions."(1) Which is a totally moronic idea. Why should any language, especially a Germanic one, be expected to follow the rules of a long dead language? But for some reason it caught on with some schoolteachers. 

And in the case of English which has a huge number of phrasal verbs ("get up", "do in", "pick up", etc) as well as idioms like "where it's at" it is almost impossible to avoid ending a sentence with a preposition without bizarre distortions. (As in the example credited to Churchill: "this is a rule up with which I will not put.")

I don't use "where it's at" not because it sounds wrong but because it sounds incredibly dated!

(1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Dryden#Reputation_and_influence

And ...

Quote

As the 1995 Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of English Usage notes, in the entry on "Preposition at End",

…recent commentators — at least since Fowler 1926 — are unanimous in their rejection of the notion that ending a sentence with a preposition is an error or an offense against propriety. Fowler terms the idea a "cherished superstition."

http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=3407

Edited September 3, 2017 by Strange

[John Cuthber]

1 minute ago, Strange said:

This idiotic "rule" about not ending sentences with propositions started out when the writer Dryden noted that "English sentences should not end in prepositions because Latin sentences cannot end in prepositions."

I gather the same is true of split infinitives.

[Strange]

2 minutes ago, John Cuthber said:

I gather the same is true of split infinitives.

Indeed. The best, and in fact sometimes the only, position for an adverb is between the preposition and the verb.

Some argue that there is no such thing as a split infinitive: the infinitive of the verb "to go" is "go", while "to" is just a preposition.

 

[DrKrettin]

4 minutes ago, Strange said:

 Why should any language, especially a Germanic one, be expected to follow the rules of a long dead language?  

And in the case of English which has a huge number of phrasal verbs ("get up", "do in", "pick up", etc) as well as idioms like "where it's at" it is almost impossible to avoid ending a sentence with a preposition without bizarre distortions. (As in the example credited to Churchill: "this is a rule up with which I will not put.")

 

No language is dead if the literature is worth reading, but I agree that it makes no sense having rules of a Germanic language dictated by a Latin. Over half of English vocabulary originates from or via Latin, but the grammar is resolutely Germanic. As for phrasal verbs, I am reminded of what the child said when its mother intended to read a bedtime story from a particular book, had second thoughts and put it away, so the child said 

Mummy, what did you put that book I was going to be read to out of up for?

[geordief]

20 minutes ago, Strange said:

.

 

 

18 minutes ago, DrKrettin said:

No language is dead if the literature is worth reading, but I agree that it makes no sense having rules of a Germanic language dictated by a Latin. Over half of English vocabulary originates from or via Latin, but the grammar is resolutely Germanic. As for phrasal verbs, I am reminded of what the child said when its mother intended to read a bedtime story from a particular book, had second thoughts and put it away, so the child said 

Mummy, what did you put that book I was going to be read to out of up for?

:Mummy, for why did you put that book the which  I was going to be read to out of up for?

 

If "where it's at" is dated ,could it be a Dylanologism? (it comes in "Like a Rolling Stone" )

Edited September 3, 2017 by geordief
how do you delete frames ? Can you?

[John Cuthber]

You can get hopelessly lost in that sort of thing

This is the house that Jack  built.

This is the house, that the malt lay in, that Jack built.

This is the house that the malt, that the rat ate, lay in, that Jack built.

This is the house that the cat, that the rat, that the malt lay in, ate, killed, that jack built.

[Airbrush]

I don't know or care much about use of other prepositions, just the word "AT".  Does anyone here prefer to say "where it's at" than "where it is"?

Please stop using the absurd figure of speech "there is more than one way to skin a cat".  I love cats!  We had 2 lovely cat sisters that lived to be 21 and 22 years old.

Edited September 4, 2017 by Airbrush

[geordief]

37 minutes ago, Airbrush said:

I don't know or care much about use of other prepositions, just the word "AT".  Does anyone here prefer to say "where it's at" than "where it is"?

Please stop using the absurd figure of speech "there is more than one way to skin a cat".  I love cats!  We had 2 lovely cat sisters that lived to be 21 and 22 years old.

They are different expressions.I can imagine circumstances where "where  it's at"  might  be appropriate (if "it" referred to a point on a journey for example)

[Strange]

Yes, my impressions is that "where it's at" is used in a more metaphorical sense. 

So saying "this restaurant is where it's at" means it is a really good ("happening") restaurant. Not that some event is occurring at the restaurant.

The phrase may be used as a more literal synonym for "where it is" in some parts of the US, though. In Bristol (UK) they say "where it's to" (as in: "I found a great pub last night" "Oh yeah, where's that to then?")

[DrKrettin]

9 minutes ago, Strange said:

The phrase 

The clause 

[StringJunky]

'Where it's at' is more about the state of a situation currently, or to put it another way: this is the present state of play or fashion. It's a colloquial/informal expression and shouldn't be used in any formal work or conversation.

Edited September 4, 2017 by StringJunky