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Randolpin

Reconciling science and religion

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Religion remains a matter of faith.  Hard good science consists of provable facts repeatable by hard experimentation.  The two are by definition non irreconcilable.

But ... but ... and I am not religious at all but somewhere if the correct questions are asked, the hard science guy just says ... "I don't know, but wouldn't that be nice"!  :)

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18 hours ago, John Cuthber said:

 

And you have made that claim in the past.

I asked then, and I'm asking again, if there's any "wisdom" in the Bible that's not just common sense?

If not, are you, on behalf of the Book, claiming knowledge that it actually lacks?

 

I'm not sure I ever claimed anyone's loyalty.

And round we go again, this from page 7:

Quote

I've pointed out the good teachings found in the bibles, which you insist is common sense, but even common sense has to be learned; western culture seems to teach revenge rather than forgiveness, intolerance rather than tolerance and loving your enemy is a foreign concept, since the initial reaction is to bomb the shit out of them.

 

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Loop Break

There are many ways science and religion could be reconciled for example if god spoke to a scientific prophet perhaps with a TOE :) Or perhaps knowing the mind of god and exactly what god is might help, This is a link to holographic universe https://www.sciencenews.org/article/entanglement-gravitys-long-distance-connection

The holographic universe explains many things through entanglement, the above link mentions the universe is a big quantum computer, could that the mind of god. Maybe religion misunderstands exactly what god is. In the quantum universe all things are entangled to a certain extent, all things are connected, sounds religious.

Perhaps a TOE will unite science and religion.

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13 minutes ago, Handy andy said:

Loop Break

There are many ways science and religion could be reconciled for example if god spoke to a scientific prophet perhaps with a TOE :) Or perhaps knowing the mind of god and exactly what god is might help, This is a link to holographic universe https://www.sciencenews.org/article/entanglement-gravitys-long-distance-connection

The holographic universe explains many things through entanglement, the above link mentions the universe is a big quantum computer, could that the mind of god. Maybe religion misunderstands exactly what god is. In the quantum universe all things are entangled to a certain extent, all things are connected, sounds religious.

Perhaps a TOE will unite science and religion.

I think you mean 'Loopy break'.

18 hours ago, HB of CJ said:

Religion remains a matter of faith.  Hard good science consists of provable facts repeatable by hard experimentation.  The two are by definition non irreconcilable.

But ... but ... and I am not religious at all but somewhere if the correct questions are asked, the hard science guy just says ... "I don't know, but wouldn't that be nice"!  :)

You forget that each side is made up of people, not definitions, and people can always, with the right motivation, reconcile their differences.

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8 hours ago, dimreepr said:

western culture seems to teach revenge rather than forgiveness, intolerance rather than tolerance and loving your enemy is a foreign concept, since the initial reaction is to bomb the shit out of them.

This is almost literally the "Wisdom" of the Bible specifically Exodus 21:24.

As I pointed out before.

So, yes, we are going round in circles, because you keep saying stuff like that- and it keeps being not true, so I keep on calling you out on it.

I don't plan to stop pointing out the problems so the recursive nature of the discussion is in your court...

 

What you don't seem to understand is that a book which has some good stuff (even if it's obvious) and some rubbish (ditto) isn't any use unless you can tell those two groups apart.

If you can separate the wheat from the chaff*, then you don't need the book.

If you can't tell them apart then the book's no use to you.

 

8 hours ago, Handy andy said:

There are many ways science and religion could be reconciled for example if god spoke to...

Well, if it was properly documented etc, then it would be science.

If it wasn't documented properly then it would be religion.

7 hours ago, dimreepr said:

I think you mean 'Loopy break'.

OK, it may not happen often, but Dimreeper and I are in complete agreement on this.

* Matthew 3:12 

:)

Edited by John Cuthber

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One way that I see on how science and christianity could be reconciled is by saying that science as well as philosophy are tools to explain or support the truth claims in the bible. 

Example is the discovery of science that the earth floats in empty space which exactly what Job 26:7 says and in philosophy the term "greatest conceivable being" which is a perfect or maximally great being which also exactly what the scripture says that God is perfect.

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12 hours ago, John Cuthber said:

This is almost literally the "Wisdom" of the Bible specifically Exodus 21:24.

As I pointed out before.

So, yes, we are going round in circles, because you keep saying stuff like that- and it keeps being not true, so I keep on calling you out on it.

I don't plan to stop pointing out the problems so the recursive nature of the discussion is in your court...

 

What you don't seem to understand is that a book which has some good stuff (even if it's obvious) and some rubbish (ditto) isn't any use unless you can tell those two groups apart.

If you can separate the wheat from the chaff*, then you don't need the book.

If you can't tell them apart then the book's no use to you.

 

Well, if it was properly documented etc, then it would be science.

If it wasn't documented properly then it would be religion.

OK, it may not happen often, but Dimreeper and I are in complete agreement on this.

* Matthew 3:12 

:)

Just trying to help you out of the shit discussion you were having :) I think you will find a close similarity to what I wrote in Luke some where.

Did you know the exodus flood story might be based on the earlier Santorini explosion, the Jews just nicked the story of the tsunami from 500 years earlier, and said our god did that so don't mess with us. The Nile turning red is documented in much earlier (500 years approx) Egyptian texts before the fictional date of the exodus. some of your old testament stories of floods could be based on actual historic natural disasters. The horrible Egyptians were apparently descended from the 2nd son of Noah who went off to found the Egyptian nation after he was cursed for having his way with a drunken noah and possibly his mother as well. As for moses he had to be the dummest person on the planet if he existed, you could stroll from Egypt to where Israel is today in a week along established trade routes. He got lost for 40 years in the desert then lead the jews to the promised land :) come on . There are scholarly articles which indicate that the jews originally came from somewhere else in the middle east, based on a mountain range, and some ancient ruins which were bulldozed very quickly by the Saudis I think it was.

So as you say religion is based on stories and science is based on actual observations or mathematical thereoms predicting something from observations. Those thereoms as in religion can be pushed beyond there believable limits and should be taken with a pinch of salt :) unless you follow science like a religion.

I don't believe that religion is a good thing in society today, however the view I put forward above is inline with Pantheism I understand, which could be regarded as sexed up atheism and possibly acceptable to scientists and new age religions.

The old religions need to lose there blood lust and stop trying to expand their influence across the globe.

Loopey huh, that is an understatement :) Only trying to help you get out of the shit, unless you like being in the pig sty your arguments have got into.

 

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19 hours ago, John Cuthber said:

I don't plan to stop pointing out the problems so the recursive nature of the discussion is in your court...

 

OK let's agree to disagree.

19 hours ago, John Cuthber said:

OK, it may not happen often, but Dimreeper and I are in complete agreement on this.

At least we can agree on something :)

 
5 hours ago, Handy andy said:

So as you say religion is based on stories and science is based on actual observations or mathematical thereoms predicting something from observations. Those thereoms as in religion can be pushed beyond there believable limits and should be taken with a pinch of salt :) unless you follow science like a religion.

4

Unless you understand science (you don't seem too), it's also based on stories/analogies designed to teach; the only real difference is that science is relevant/understood today.

5 hours ago, Handy andy said:

Loopey huh, that is an understatement :) Only trying to help you get out of the shit, unless you like being in the pig sty your arguments have got into.

A pigsty contains far more than just shit, just like knowledge; you have to wade through the shit to reach the bacon/understanding.

Edited by dimreepr

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7 hours ago, Randolpin said:

One way that I see on how science and christianity could be reconciled is by saying that science as well as philosophy are tools to explain or support the truth claims in the bible.

What about the truth claims in the Koran?

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2 hours ago, dimreepr said:

 

Unless you understand science (you don't seem too), it's also based on stories/analogies designed to teach; the only real difference is that science is relevant/understood today.

A pigsty contains far more than just shit, just like knowledge; you have to wade through the shit to reach the bacon/understanding.

When I look at shit I recognize it for what it is. :) 

 

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1 minute ago, Handy andy said:

When I look at shit I recognize it for what it is. :) 

 

good for you...

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1 minute ago, dimreepr said:

good for you...

I don't need to taste it or stand in it either once I have recognized it for what it is :)

 

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On ‎30‎/‎08‎/‎2017 at 6:42 PM, HB of CJ said:

The two are by definition non irreconcilable.

But ... but ... and I am not religious at all but somewhere if the correct questions are asked, the hard science guy just says ... "I don't know, but wouldn't that be nice"!  :)

Er! Double negatives

Did you mean to say none reconcilable, irreconcilable, or none irreconcilable = reconcilable.

 

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Subjectives Opinuions ...

Exact propor English is not required nor desired.  As long as the main communuication and themes is understoods, that is sufficiuffulment.  Correction of written English as an answer to a valied statement indicates a lack of mannours, intelligenience and a generally nick picky personality.    Also possibly excessive compulsive.  It is OK for some to pick there noses while keybourding.  What one does with the buggerers is not important.  That is all.  :)

Meant to be humerous.

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9 hours ago, HB of CJ said:

Correction of written English as an answer to a valied statement indicates a (1) lack of mannours, (2) intelligenience and (3) a generally nick picky personality. 

(1) I think it is polite to help people improve their written English.

(2) & (3) I am not ashamed of my intelligence nor my eye for detail.

Quote

Meant to be humerous.

Failed.

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Things intended to be humerous, rather than humourous, often turn out to be a bone of contention.

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On 9/2/2017 at 0:30 AM, Area54 said:

What about the truth claims in the Koran?

Some truth claims are not valid.

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41 minutes ago, Randolpin said:

Some truth claims are not valid.

And the only justification you have for asserting that your religion's truth is valid is that your religion asserts that it is. Just as Islam does. Just as other religions do. You have a circular argument that stands on all the solidity of a flatulent extrusion.

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4 minutes ago, Area54 said:

And the only justification you have for asserting that your religion's truth is valid is that your religion asserts that it is. Just as Islam does. Just as other religions do. You have a circular argument that stands on all the solidity of a flatulent extrusion.

Please wait. I will expund my thoughts because I am not yet good in Christian philosophy. Let me provide my arguments in the upcoming days.

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1 minute ago, Randolpin said:

Please wait. I will expund my thoughts because I am not yet good in Christian philosophy. Let me provide my arguments in the upcoming days.

I am happy to wait, though I am doubtful you will find anything to convince me of your view.

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4 minutes ago, Area54 said:

I am happy to wait, though I am doubtful you will find anything to convince me of your view.

Thank you for your consideration. I may fail but God never fails. My motive also here is not to convince anybody but to share the validity of my belief.

Edited by Randolpin

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Interestingly, the tooth fairy and Santa Claus never fail either.

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1 hour ago, Randolpin said:

My motive also here is not to convince anybody but to share the validity of my belief.

What is your motive then? Your belief is about the only thing you talk about. 

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