martillo Posted July 19, 2017 Author Share Posted July 19, 2017 From my point of view there's too much suffering and paining everywhere. May be you are lucky in a comfortable situation and you feel fine enough to look for improving the things. I feel comfortable sometimes but when i feel fine I look around near or far away and lot others are not so lucky. So I concluded we are all in a bad situation and of course looking for something better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 From my point of view the Physics System of the Universe running all the Physics' Laws of the Universe seems to have some "flaw". Some physics-parameters could have a wrong real running value, some physical things could not be exactly the way they should be and the Universe could be in a not ideal state. Nature could be different. Nature could be different. But it isn't this is not a flaw in physics, it is just wishful thinking. From my point of view there's too much suffering and paining everywhere. May be you are lucky in a comfortable situation and you feel fine enough to look for improving the things. I feel comfortable sometimes but when i feel fine I look around near or far away and lot others are not so lucky. So I concluded we are all in a bad situation and of course looking for something better. That has nothing to do with physics, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 From my point of view there's too much suffering and paining everywhere. May be you are lucky in a comfortable situation and you feel fine enough to look for improving the things. I feel comfortable sometimes but when i feel fine I look around near or far away and lot others are not so lucky. So I concluded we are all in a bad situation and of course looking for something better. I'm sorry, I was commenting on your physics argument only. I have zero interest in your philosophical view (sorry ), but I feel it lends tacit support to bad science not to correct flaws. Also, I'm not good at blending the what/where/when/how aspects of science with the why aspect of philosophy. For instance, I have no idea why you think "things" with science need improving more than the method already allows for. It's the most trustworthy way we've ever had of explaining phenomena, and it's been squeezing the supernatural out of the gaps in our knowledge quite successfully for some time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martillo Posted July 19, 2017 Author Share Posted July 19, 2017 strange wrote: That has nothing to do with physics, though. Phi for All wrote: I'm sorry, I was commenting on your physics argument only. I have zero interest in your philosophical view (sorry ), but I feel it lends tacit support to bad science not to correct flaws. You treat Physics and life problems as totally separated while they are strongly related... But I understand, don't worry. By the way I'm not trying to convince anyone, may be just looking for someone that could be interested, and that's because I'm explaining my point of view, just that. Phi for All wrote: Also, I'm not good at blending the what/where/when/how aspects of science with the why aspect of philosophy. For instance, I have no idea why you think "things" with science need improving more than the method already allows for. It's the most trustworthy way we've ever had of explaining phenomena, and it's been squeezing the supernatural out of the gaps in our knowledge quite successfully for some time. I don't disagree with the scientific method. I think both empiricism and rationalism complement each other and must work together in the method. What I see is just that it became quite solely empirical and I would claim of a more advance in rationalism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 You treat Physics and life problems as totally separated while they are strongly related... Can you explain how they are related? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martillo Posted July 19, 2017 Author Share Posted July 19, 2017 Can you explain how they are related? Already posted at #24: A PHYSICS' FLAW From my point of view the Physics System of the Universe running all the Physics' Laws of the Universe seems to have some "flaw". Some physics-parameters could have a wrong real running value, some physical things could not be exactly the way they should be and the Universe could be in a not ideal state. Nature could be different. For example too energetic photons are present which can "break" organic molecules causing mutations, cancer, cells' deterioration, aging and death. Note that any atom can accumulate the energy of several successive lower energetic photons and spontaneously emit a much higher energetic photon. Seems the upper limit in the photons’ energy is too high and too harmful photons are allowed. Evidence is found in the amount of information about the harmful ultra-violet effects. If the photons' spectrum would have a lower limit just in the "deep blue" color of light may be a more ideal kind of life could exist. Other physics-parameters' values could also be different and a totally different kind of life could be possible. Hope would exist if some "Superior Intelligence" would exist, responsible for the Universe Physics System and capable to fix it. But it and its systems could also have been affected by their own Physics' problems and so not being able to think and work properly... Our Universe seems to have not born perfect. Something could have gone wrong in its creation. The problems/flaws would be solved/fixed someday. May be we, all humans at Earth with all of our developed knowledge, technology and our imagination, could be helping someway just following our intuition. Everything could be important. That's what makes sense to me although with the lack of some proofs. That's my faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 As I say, just pointless wishful thinking. "If physics were different then we wouldn't have as much cancer." But if physics were that different, we probably wouldn't exist. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manticore Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 You've never met my gran then... Jokes aside, surely a wise person asks why, before dismissing. I might ask "Which one?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martillo Posted July 20, 2017 Author Share Posted July 20, 2017 (edited) I have zero interest in your philosophical view (sorry )... As I say, just pointless wishful thinking... Thanks for your opinions anyway. Edited July 20, 2017 by martillo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ten oz Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 strange wrote: Phi for All wrote: You treat Physics and life problems as totally separated while they are strongly related... But I understand, don't worry. By the way I'm not trying to convince anyone, may be just looking for someone that could be interested, and that's because I'm explaining my point of view, just that. Life's problem are insignificant to things like gravity and electromagnetism. The process of fusion occuring in a star on the other side of the universe isn't related to your problem a d will continue long after you are dead and gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 (edited) From my point of view there's too much suffering and paining everywhere. May be you are lucky in a comfortable situation and you feel fine enough to look for improving the things. I feel comfortable sometimes but when i feel fine I look around near or far away and lot others are not so lucky. So I concluded we are all in a bad situation and of course looking for something better. The poor exists in every society, what are YOU going to do about it? Don't ask what can society do for me. https://www.youtube.com/user/TEDtalksDirector Edited July 20, 2017 by dimreepr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martillo Posted July 20, 2017 Author Share Posted July 20, 2017 The poor exists in every society, what are YOU going to do about it? Don't ask what can society do for me. https://www.youtube.com/user/TEDtalksDirector In an ideal kind of life, life is in armony with nature and all resources(like food) easily available. If not would not be ideal. Poor would not exist. You may ask and work? Well I think no work needed. You know, even no technology would be needed, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 In an ideal kind of life, life is in armony with nature and all resources(like food) easily available. Tell that to a chaffinch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martillo Posted July 20, 2017 Author Share Posted July 20, 2017 (edited) Tell that to a chaffinch. To a chaffinch I would tell no birdcages. Edited July 20, 2017 by martillo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 To a chaffinch I would tell no birdcages. Why would you imagine a chaffinch has no cage, don't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martillo Posted July 20, 2017 Author Share Posted July 20, 2017 (edited) To the lion I would tell sorry, no hunting. To us humans I would tell writing, on the sand of the beach only. ... ... ... Edited July 20, 2017 by martillo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koti Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 To the lion I would tell sorry, no hunting. To us humans I would tell writing, on the sand of the beach only. ... ... ... I'm at the hospital about to be operated on. What would you say to me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martillo Posted July 20, 2017 Author Share Posted July 20, 2017 (edited) I'm at the hospital about to be operated on. What would you say to me? No harmful accident be possible, no disease of any kind, no catastrophes at all. Edited July 20, 2017 by martillo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 To the lion I would tell sorry, no hunting. You are a very cruel person: "Sorry, no hunting. You must starve to death." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martillo Posted July 21, 2017 Author Share Posted July 21, 2017 (edited) You are a very cruel person: "Sorry, no hunting. You must starve to death." I didn't say nor meant that. It would be: "Sorry no hunting. Go vegan." Edited July 21, 2017 by martillo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 I didn't say nor meant that. It would be: "Sorry no hunting. Go vegan." Same thing. Lions are carnivores. They would die. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martillo Posted July 21, 2017 Author Share Posted July 21, 2017 (edited) Same thing. Lions are carnivores. They would die. You didn't get it. It's figurative. It means that in an ideal kind of life no animal eat other animal to survive. All animals would be vegetarian. Some animal very similar to a lion could exist but vegetarian having his proper fruits, seeds or leafs to eat. Same for us humans of course. I'm not vegetarian but I recognize that in an ideal kind of life all beings would be. Vegetarianism nowadays leads to nothing, it's useless for me. One thing is how things are, other how they should be. In an ideal kind of life no one hurt or damage other ones. If not would not be ideal for the damaged ones. It must be ideal for all existent beings, obviously. But the solution of the problem is not a matter of a diet. The real problem is the not ideal values of the physics parameters as I already said in that shown page in posts #24 and #31. It's a problem in the Physics of the Universe and the solution would come with Metaphysics only since it requires the intervention of some "Superior Intelligence" capable to make changes in the Physics of the Universe. That's what I think. Edited July 21, 2017 by martillo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 You didn't get it. It's figurative. It means that in an ideal kind of life no animal eat other animal to survive. All animals would be vegetarian. In an ideal (according to your ideals) maybe. But it is completely unrealistic. If there were lots if vegetarian organisms then, sooner or later, one or more of them would evolve to prey on the others as a better source of food than eating grass or berries. You seem to want to live in an artificial universe that works according to your wishes. I think this is quite dangerous. You need to learn to live in the real world. In an ideal kind of life no one hurt or damage other ones. Not even plants? What are we supposed to eat? The real problem is the not ideal values of the physics parameters as I already said in that shown page in posts #24 and #31. I don't see any connection between physics and your wanting to change the way evolution works. (Apart from being equally unrealistic.) It's a problem in the Physics of the Universe and the solution would come with Metaphysics only since it requires the intervention of some "Superior Intelligence" capable to make changes in the Physics of the Universe. That is utterly delusional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martillo Posted July 21, 2017 Author Share Posted July 21, 2017 (edited) In an ideal (according to your ideals) maybe. But it is completely unrealistic. If there were lots if vegetarian organisms then, sooner or later, one or more of them would evolve to prey on the others as a better source of food than eating grass or berries. You seem to want to live in an artificial universe that works according to your wishes. I think this is quite dangerous. You need to learn to live in the real world. Not even plants? What are we supposed to eat? I don't see any connection between physics and your wanting to change the way evolution works. (Apart from being equally unrealistic.) That is utterly delusional. Here begins a useless discussion. I will not follow. Edited July 21, 2017 by martillo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Here begins a useless discussion. I will not follow. So pointing out the logical flaws in your dream is "useless"? Presumably you didn't come here for rational discussion. "The things you think are useless, I can't understand." Reelin' in the Years, Steely Dan Or maybe you should listen to John Lennon's "Imagine" again. Officially the worst pop record of all time, with childish pseudo-philosophical lyrics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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