NavajoEverclear Posted June 2, 2003 Share Posted June 2, 2003 Forgive me I am not in the mood to elaborate myself, please consider this: Is our school system really an efficient tool for truly teaching? I believe that it is not. It is not intelligently designed for a purpose, well not to an extent. It is an evolved form of a primitave institution, improved but far from perfect. There is another way, our education systems were not commanded to us by God, they weren't even put together by the smartest people in the world. It is somewhat amazing to think that noone questions the TRUE purpose behind the things we do, including the education system. Do tests and grades really teach us anything? Inevitable yes, but they are not designed for EFFICIENCY. Alfie Kohn has written a book about how systems of reward and punishment, in which grades are a form of, inhibit intrinsic motivation to learn. If you ask me, I think our education should be about freedom, infact it is about unessesary limitations, that do not build character, they were simply the first (actually order doesn't matter so much as the quality) methods thought up, and not researched or experimented propperly to be sure they fulfilled a purpose, if one was ever truly defined. Read this quote : "The inescapable implication, as Meier points out, is that the phrase “high standards” by definition refers to standards that everyone won’t be able to meet. If everyone could meet them, that would be taken as prima facie proof that the standards were too low – and they would then be ratcheted upward – until failures were created. Despite its sugar-coated public-relations rhetoric, the whole standards-and-accountability movement is not about helping all children to become better learners. It is not committed to leaving no child behind. Just the opposite: it is an elaborate sorting device, separating wheat from chaff. And don’t ask what happens to the chaff." http://www.alfiekohn.org/teaching/ohanian.htm I'll finish here for now, please send in replies about this subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavajoEverclear Posted June 2, 2003 Author Share Posted June 2, 2003 Just to add a little more : education as we know it is a short cut around true communication and understanding. It undermines the better functions of human nature. It was taught to us through our parents, there parents through their parent. Quite often noone understands anyone, even their own family. They accept this is just the way it is, well I don't think it is the only way, in fact I know it isn't. It isn't the right way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BPHgravity Posted June 2, 2003 Share Posted June 2, 2003 Every word you have written and every sentence you have constructed on this thread was learned from an educational system and most likely a public school. The public school system is based on providing the most amount of information for the most amount of students possible in a school career. It is up to the parents and the students themselves to apply the basic information and the general knowledge to higher level subjects and not that of the school system. The system doesnt need to be fixed, people do. :toilet: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavajoEverclear Posted June 3, 2003 Author Share Posted June 3, 2003 Yes I know I learned these things at school, but was that process as efficient as it could be? Not to mention the way it is taught, but certain things taught really don't have much importance besides its the way its been done in the past. I think you may be right in a way because it would be downright impossible for school to turnout everyone a success, its more parents job to help their children though problems, because they have more effect. But I really don't think you took much consideration of the view before responding, just think about all of the ways we are taught in school? Mostly its pretty standard, there are unique teachers but they all still have to follow certain rules, why are these rules there? Some of the methods of our teaching are not effective in teaching, they get some point of the material into our heads eventually, but is it in the right way, for any useful purpose, in as an effective a way as possible? Have you personally seen other methods fail, I've hardly seen any implemenented, and if so why? There is reason for everything I believe, and I believe we need to question our reasons. Please go to that link, I would advise you to read the book that particular article is a forward to to find the answer to the question in its title. Please think a little harder, we start education when we are five years old, most five year olds don't have a concept of what education is, or what they are doing, often they struggle and it is not because of their capacities, it is because they do not understand the faulty function by which they are being taught. There isn't a whole lot to understand about it---- the education system is built by adults who are disconnected, and perhaps not really try to become connected, to the children in which they decide to inflict their ideas on. Usually we eventually we come to learn to work with the system, we do not truly understand, we are brainwashed into beleiving it is the way, and we forget the reasons why we struggled at first, because the time we could was during a mentality in which we could not put our emotions into words. I believe that our emotions are a quicker and truer calculator of the world around us if only we know how to translate it into appropriate action. I understand a reform of the system would be difficult, and perhaps even somewhat ridiculously unrealistic, but your defense of the system did not address REASONS behind your beliefs. Again, I agree education comes from the system, eventually, it is obvious that people are learning something. But what is the applicability of their knowledge, and do you really believe they have been trained to the maximum of their capacity? I believe, in fact I know that many of those who could have become the greatest genius's are never seen. Through combinations of their own bad decisions in response to, and confusions about society and the defects it weilds in corners not seen by some, of which things the greath school systems helps perpetrate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavajoEverclear Posted June 3, 2003 Author Share Posted June 3, 2003 Those words I learned at school, but the thought process by which I use them to express my ideas, was not, infact very few people, even the people closest to me know anything about the side of me that writes like this. I hardly believe that my writing is achieving any purpose and my reason in doing it is little more than habit and addiction to the process. Nevertheless the points I make I believe are good ones and I do not see that they have been addressed with careful thought, sorry I apologize if I am insulting you in the way I reply. Maybe I should also stop apologizing if it has no purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radical Edward Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 criticising the system is all well and good, but is there anything better. the same comments have been made about democracy: "It has been said that democracy is the worst form of governement except all the others that have been tried." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fafalone Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 Complain all you want about democracy, doesn't apply to the US or the UK. The US government is a FEDERAL REPUBLIC and the UK government is a CONSTITUTIONAL MONARCHY. Neither of these are a "democrary." Next person who implies we're supposed to be living in a democracy gets suspended Democracy is a terrible form of government, since the majority of people are stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radical Edward Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 I am not complaining about democracy, that was Churchill's Quote. pointing out the technical states of the US and UK is also pointless as the monarchy is politically irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fafalone Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 It may be irrelevant, but it's still not a democracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radical Edward Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 the government is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fafalone Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 no, it's not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radical Edward Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 Originally posted by fafalone no, it's not. in what way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaKiri Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 Originally posted by Radical Edward in what way? Everyone doesn't vote for everything. It's a democracy with proportional representation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg1917 Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 With the hilarious electoral farce that was summer 2001 in the US i can understand how people are unsure how effective the system of democracy is, but people in Britian are quite happy with a system where we actually elect our local parliamentary representatives. This as opposed to relying on chads and hanging chads and half chads and, fortunately for Bush, his siblings in positions of power. lucky that wasnt it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radical Edward Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 Originally posted by MrL_JaKiri Everyone doesn't vote for everything. It's a democracy with proportional representation. am I missing something? Proportional Representation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaKiri Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 Originally posted by Radical Edward am I missing something? Proportional Representation? You know, MPs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blike Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 Aren't we supposed to be living in a democracy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fafalone Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 In what way is the official classifcation inaccurate? It's not that no country is classified as having a democratic government, it's just that the US and UK are not. The burden of proof lies in the hands of the person going against the most respectable sources (CIA). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kylon Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 Let me explain something to you. All of those "Advanced techniques" that tend to work so well, they have to be customized for each student. There are three MAJOR reasons why public schools are so inconcievably bad. 1. Lack of money- If there were more money, you could customize your education and thus increase the efficiency of education. With more money you could learn what you wanted and learn how to directly apply the information. A teacher would have to think up for each student how they could individually use the information they are given. This would take alot of TIME and time = MONEY. The school systems are already having a major shortage of $$$ ONE MAJOR REASON FOR SCHOOL %@H!ness. 2. Democracy- Democracy is a wonderful form of government. Indeed without democracy the average person would not be allowed to have a free public education. However the disadvantage, or advantage of a democracy is everybody gets to have a say. This means that something you might think would be good for your child will have to go through A( a complex and extremely inefficient bureocratic process which will probably turn it into something different B( Your idea may offend somebody, and we can't have that. C( everybody else had to go through a crappy system, you should too. It would also change the standards. 3. Last but not least, school isn't ment for the top 1%. School is ment to get you ready for the business world(work drone). You are not suppose to be a Picasso, an Einstein, there are too few to cater to there needs to be cost effective. These are a few major reasons why school = BS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg1917 Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 The thing is, some of us had the luck of being privately educated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radical Edward Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 Originally posted by MrL_JaKiri You know, MPs. you talking about what goes on in westminster? only the electoral system isn't PR, as much as the Liberals like to ask. faf: I never said that we live in a democracy, I said merely that "Democracy is the worst form of government, apart from all the others" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest standmatt Posted June 5, 2003 Share Posted June 5, 2003 Originally posted by Radical Edward am I missing something? Proportional Representation? Yes, yes you are. In the United States the people get represented by the congress, the congressmen vote (hopefully) the way that the majority of the people (that they represent) would. These are the representatives, hence: Representative Democracy (Or Federal Republic, it's just another term). Originally posted by greg1917 we actually elect our local parliamentary representatives. Except that in Britan your "representatives" don't accually represent you, they represent the party in power's wishes. At least in america they represent their constituents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg1917 Posted June 5, 2003 Share Posted June 5, 2003 Well my local MP seems to represent his constituents, but apparently according to you he's too busy pandering to ruling party politics. He represents the predominately asian community by voting for what is good for Pollokshields in the Commons; party whips dont rule with an iron fist as much as Blair would want them to. And if he didnt represent his constituents he wouldnt be voted for that seat in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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