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Modern diet and stress cause homosexuality?


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Yes I do but why is clinical relevance important?

 

Justified distribution of resources.

 

 

Where in Belgium do you live?

It can get 33°C today, where I live.

 

About in the centre of East-Flanders. Not having a thermometer right here, Google indicates 32 °C atm.

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Justified distribution of resources.

This is completely off-topic but then why are people still spending resources gathering evidence for the evolution theory while there is already a huge amount of evidence? That's a waste of resources? Edited by Itoero
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"Interesting (pure scientific)" ... But why? Why would you - physics aside - want to know something that doesn't matter in the end and of which trying to change it would pose great ethical problems?

The interesting stuff is imo not the link between modern diet/stress and homosexuality but the (prenatal and postnatal) effect of modern diet/stress on the growth and inner working of nuclei in the hypothalamus (INAH3 and SDN) which are known to be causal related to homosexuality.
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That isn't what the OP said (which is what John was responding to).

 

The claim was: "Modern diet and stress cause homosexuality." In which case, most people would be homosexual.

 

It is entirely possible (but it sounds implausible) that diet or stress may have some sort of small influence one way or another. But that would need supporting evidence.

 

Genes interact with modern diet and stress to cause homosexuality. I refer to this in the study and explain that by changing the "environment" the person can change his partner preference, although his genes (hence inclination for homosexuality), will not change. It is well known in medicine that phenotype is a result of the interaction of genes with the environment.

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Genes interact with modern diet and stress to cause homosexuality. I refer to this in the study and explain that by changing the "environment" the person can change his partner preference, although his genes (hence inclination for homosexuality), will not change. It is well known in medicine that phenotype is a result of the interaction of genes with the environment.

 

I dare you to state that the homosexuality genes in strict muslim countries is stronger than those in more progressive countries, given the strict anti-gay mentality in let's say the whole community there and probable punishes, also given the contradictory prevalence of homosexuality, there.

 

Gay people do exist in those countries, probably as much as here, and let's be honest: the environment there is not in favour of homosexuality. Which, according to your statement, must mean that the genetic predisposition for homosexuality there and here should be different. Which is, imo, most obviously not the case.

 

Gay people may be oppressed there and may force themselves in fake straight partnerships to evade prosecution.

 

Can you please provide an article (peer-reviewed), backing-up your statement?

Edited by Function
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There is no reliable data for "ancient" (as opposed to modern) incidence of homosexuality.

 

It is entirely possible that there were more gay people around in the past than there are now.

 

 

That makes this whole tread absurd.

It is true- as Itoero has said that ""Modern diet and stress cause homosexuality." - as long as you interpret the word "cause" as meaning "might be a factor in favour of"

 

It is exactly equally true that "Modern diet and stress Prevent homosexuality." with a similar caveat.

 

However, if you use the word "cause" in the way which the dictionary defines it then- as I pointed out- it is clearly and unequivocally untrue to say that "Modern diet and stress cause homosexuality."

 

So, if you misuse the word, it's meaningless, and if you don't then it's simply wrong.

 

Was this thread just a trolling exercise?

 

The "Modern diet....cause..." is a hypothesis. A hypothesis is according to the dictionary "a supposition or proposed explanation made on the basis of limited evidence as a starting point for further investigation." This hypothesis would be true if upon decrease of stress and modification of diet in a population, homosexuality rates would drop considerably.

I apologise for mis-attributing the quote.

What you said was "It depends on the kind of stress and the modern diet can be a factor".

How is that different from "Modern diet and stress cause homosexuality." - as long as you interpret the word "cause" as meaning "might be a factor in favour of""?

 

Anyway, the point stands

We have no idea of what the incidence of homosexuality was like in ancient times- so we can not possibly know if it is higehr or lower today.

So we can't say whether modern life has made any difference- and we certainly can't say which direction it might have influenced it.

 

There are pre-industrial cultures living in ancient like conditions today. They have been studied with regard to homosexuality and the studies are referenced in the work.

If you don't know what they are, then there's no way you can attribute things to them.

you have just summarised the utter pointlessness of this thread.

Modern diet=rich in highly processed food, mainly refined sugars and fat. The pre-industrial diet takes most of its calories from whole foods.

 

I dare you to state that the homosexuality genes in strict muslim countries is stronger than those in more progressive countries, given the strict anti-gay mentality in let's say the whole community there and probable punishes, also given the contradictory prevalence of homosexuality, there.

 

Gay people do exist in those countries, probably as much as here, and let's be honest: the environment there is not in favour of homosexuality. Which, according to your statement, must mean that the genetic predisposition for homosexuality there and here should be different. Which is, imo, most obviously not the case.

 

Gay people may be oppressed there and may force themselves in fake straight partnerships to evade prosecution.

 

Can you please provide an article (peer-reviewed), backing-up your statement?

 

I do not have statistics for the arabs, but I live in a culture with some similarities to the arab countries. Before the 90's we lived in very poor conditions, with little electricity. I had never seen or heard of a homosexual, transgender until I was 15 years old. I learned it from the western media.

In my opinion, homosexuality is oppressed in the arab countries because it is rare, not vice versa. When a behavior is rare, and is not beneficial, it is frowned upon, why not oppressed.

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I do not have statistics for the arabs, but I live in a culture with some similarities to the arab countries. Before the 90's we lived in very poor conditions, with little electricity. I had never seen or heard of a homosexual, transgender until I was 15 years old. I learned it from the western media.

In my opinion, homosexuality is oppressed in the arab countries because it is rare, not vice versa. When a behavior is rare, and is not beneficial, it is frowned upon, why not oppressed.

 

It's a vicious circle.

 

But you don't answer my question. You state that it's a multifactorial being. Dependent of environment, that is. There is no reason to believe that other cultures have less homosexuals than more developed, progressive cultures, unless you have data to show so (which would be, however, strongly biased: statistics in arab countries will be lower due to possible prosecutions and kafkian feelings). If this is true (which cannot be proven), then there is no reason believing that homosexuality is multifactorial.

 

It is therefore impossible to state that homosexuality is, or isn't, environmentally influenced.

 

To me, it's not.

Edited by Function
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It's a vicious circle.

 

But you don't answer my question. You state that it's a multifactorial being. Dependent of environment, that is. There is no reason to believe that other cultures have less homosexuals than more developed, progressive cultures, unless you have data to show so (which would be, however, strongly biased: statistics in arab countries will be lower due to possible prosecutions and kafkaian feelings). If that is true, then sexual orientation cannot be multifactorial of origin.

 

It is therefore impossible to state that homosexuality is, or isn't, environmentally influenced.

 

To me, it's not.

Nature; or ? has provided Male and Female for the reproduction and sexual orientation doesn't know any dependence .
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Not only how silly question would be but because even if it was true how do you define stress, what kind of stress, how long the stress, what level of stress, than do same for foods what foods are lacking in your diet, how much food you need, what type food having too much of, what hormones and preserves are being put in foods, what food you must eat and food you must not eat, so on for the study.

 

So many variables where do you start to do such study. Than you have people complaining of GMO foods and preserves and chemicals in food.

 

As a start, stress level could be measured by sleep quality: the more sleep deprived the person, the more stressed. Diet could be measured by the amount of calories intake from processed foods: refined sugars (sugar, corn syrup, honey etc.) and fats (vegetable oils, animal fat).

 

Each person has his own environment, with unique stressors. In practice he would need to lower the total stress load to the point where he achieves therapeutic change. I think that the total stress load is what matters, not each individual stress source.

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I think it's interesting (pure scientific) to know that modern diet can increase (or decrease) the chance of homosexuality via prenatal stress. But it indeed doesn't really matter. Homosexuality is not a negative effect. There are lot of negative effects caused by modern diet+lifestyle.

As long as there are ego-dystonic homosexuals, and homosexuality averse cultures, there is a market for this research.

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As long as there are ego-dystonic homosexuals, and homosexuality averse cultures, there is a market for this research.

 

It would be unethical of providing these "markets" with research data allowing the mto influence the outcome of sexual orientation of their progeny.

 

Egodystonic homosexuals are not to be taught how to "solve" the origin of their 'egodystonia' (which would then be their homosexuality); this would only force them into things they believe would be healthy, slowly destroying their mental well-being without them even knowing it on long term. The environment, society, in which egodystonic homosexuals grow up are, as far as I'm concerned, the true cause of the dystonia. That problem should be addressed. Not the 'cause' of their sexual orientation.

Edited by Function
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It's a vicious circle.

 

But you don't answer my question. You state that it's a multifactorial being. Dependent of environment, that is. There is no reason to believe that other cultures have less homosexuals than more developed, progressive cultures, unless you have data to show so (which would be, however, strongly biased: statistics in arab countries will be lower due to possible prosecutions and kafkian feelings). If this is true (which cannot be proven), then there is no reason believing that homosexuality is multifactorial.

 

It is therefore impossible to state that homosexuality is, or isn't, environmentally influenced.

 

To me, it's not.

 

There have been 2 cross-cultural studies on homosexuality and its presence in different cultures:

 

Barthes J, Crochet PA, Raymond M. Male Homosexual Preference: Where, When, Why? PLoS One. 2015;10:e0134817.

 

Kyle R. What Accounts for Cross-Cultural Variation in Homosexuality. Chrestomathy: Annual Review of Undergraduate Research, School of Humanities and. 2009;8:99-114 Available from: http://chrestomathy.cofc.edu/documents/vol8/kyle.pdf

 

The first study states that the probability of observing homosexuality was 0.28, 0.75 and 0.91 for non-stratified, moderately stratified and strongly stratified societies, respectively, in a sample of 89 societies.

The second study observes that the number of societies with homosexuality present increases with the intensity of agriculture.

 

There may be an overlap in the cultures studied by both studies.

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yes very much so . The homosexuality way way back in time was forbidden because it would slow down the reproduction of human on Hearth .

 

Then we are done here. I wish no longer to discuss this fragile and delicate matter with such narrow-mindedness.

 

And forgive me to say that, but you're on a forum which agrees that we are already a bit further in understanding sexual orientation than it being a "choice" whatsoever.

 

Don't you think that if I had a choice, I'd be sexually attracted to women? Lots more choice (forgive me the sexist tone here, didn't mean it like that) and less taboo. An overall easier life, if you'd ask me. But warning: biased.

Edited by Function
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Then we are done here. I wish no longer to discuss this fragile and delicate matter with such narrow-mindedness.

 

And forgive me to say that, but you're on a forum which agrees that we are already a bit further in understanding sexual orientation than it being a "choice" whatsoever.

 

Don't you think that if I had a choice, I'd be sexually attracted to women? Lots more choice (forgive me the sexist tone here, didn't mean it like that) and less taboo. An overall easier life, if you'd ask me. But warning: biased.

Your quote: Don't you think that if I had a choice, I'd be sexually attracted to women?

 

it seem to be a misunderstanding here !

Edited by hypervalent_iodine
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Then we are done here. I wish no longer to discuss this fragile and delicate matter with such narrow-mindedness.

 

And forgive me to say that, but you're on a forum which agrees that we are already a bit further in understanding sexual orientation than it being a "choice" whatsoever.

 

Don't you think that if I had a choice, I'd be sexually attracted to women? Lots more choice (forgive me the sexist tone here, didn't mean it like that) and less taboo. An overall easier life, if you'd ask me. But warning: biased.

Your quote]Don't you think that if I had a choice, I'd be sexually attracted to women?

 

it seem to be a misunderstanding here !

 

 

Explain to me our misunderstanding, please.

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It would be unethical of providing these "markets" with research data allowing the mto influence the outcome of sexual orientation of their progeny.

 

Egodystonic homosexuals are not to be taught how to "solve" the origin of their 'egodystonia' (which would then be their homosexuality); this would only force them into things they believe would be healthy, slowly destroying their mental well-being without them even knowing it on long term. The environment, society, in which egodystonic homosexuals grow up are, as far as I'm concerned, the true cause of the dystonia. That problem should be addressed. Not the 'cause' of their sexual orientation.

Some homosexuals want to become heterosexual because society discriminates them, but others may want to become heterosexual because they want to have biological children the natural way. As long as artificial reproduction methods are ethical, reparative therapy should be so either. It is a different way of achieving fertility.

It can have side effects, like any other therapy. The benefit has to exceed the costs for it to be ethical.

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what do you mean; <<Your quote]Don't you think that if I had a choice, I'd be sexually attracted to women?

 

You say that choice is involved in the development of sexual orientation. My dear friend, it is not. If it were, I'd choose to be attracted to women. For a multitude of reasons.

 

 

Some homosexuals want to become heterosexual because society discriminates them, but others may want to become heterosexual because they want to have biological children the natural way. As long as artificial reproduction methods are ethical, reparative therapy should be so either. It is a different way of achieving fertility.

It can have side effects, like any other therapy. The benefit has to exceed the costs for it to be ethical.

 

"Reparative therapy", pardon me? Nothing is broken, nothing has to be repaired. Trust me, the examples you give are whatsoever destructive for the mental well-being of the homosexual. They do not inherently 'want' to become heterosexual, they think they do because they are forced into believing they must. These lines of thought are no natural thought patterns and are mere results of public opinion and its religious influences on sexual orientation and are - plain wrong.

Edited by Function
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You say that choice is involved in the development of sexual orientation. My dear friend, it is not. If it were, I'd choose to be attracted to women. For a multitude of reasons.

 

 

 

"Reparative therapy", pardon me? Nothing is broken, nothing has to be repaired. Trust me, the examples you give are whatsoever destructive for the mental well-being of the homosexual. They do not inherently 'want' to become heterosexual, they think they do because they are forced into believing they must. These lines of thought are no natural thought patterns and are mere results of public opinion and its religious influences on sexual orientation and are - plain wrong.

We had one or two people here that wanted to be straight and looking for some sort of medical intervention.

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