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talking about ethics in modern world is only entertaining


paragaster
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So ethics used to be about something other than entertainment but now that's all it is? You'll have to explain that one.

 

To my mind it is the most important thing humans do. As far as we know there is only one place in the entire universe where morality exists: in the space between humans. As such it is our unique contribution to existence. There are such things as justice, mercy and compassion in the universe, but only to the degree that we make it so.

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I think that the world is a better place now than when I was younger. I truly believe we are progressing towards a better future.... (we will see a good few wars and atrocities yet though). Look back a couple of hundred years and compare - the world as a whole is a kinder place. There are however many atrocities that still occur and with the easy access to information now it might seem worse. We aren't there yet, but the world is slowly changing for the better due to better education of the masses and the shaming of the guilty. It's complicated.

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There is an excellent BBC Radio program called Inside the Ethics Committee which looks at the difficult decisions that doctors, patients and carers often have to make about medical treatment. They face profound life-changing (possibly life-ending) decisions. This is not "only entertaining".

 

(Not to be confused with the program The Moral Maze, which claims to explore moral issues but is just an excuse for tabloid journalists to hurl insults and logical fallacies at each other. I assume it is supposed to be entertaining but it just serves to confirm what scum tabloid journalists are. Yes Daily Mail, I am looking at you.)

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As long as there are desperate people, who must fight to survive and maintain their dignity, the better world nice ethics might make cannot occur. If, as a result, we consider ethics entertainment instead of pivotal, we have abandoned hope and allowed despair to fill our soul. However, few of us fall so low; most have some ray of hope. Moreover, we can share that hope with others and make the world a better place. Perhaps our ethics discussions should focus on why there are so many desperate people, and what might be done to remedy the situation.

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We aren't there yet, but the world is slowly changing for the better due to better education of the masses and the shaming of the guilty.

 

Shaming the guilty, or punishing the guilty? Punishment generally requires an objective, standardized trial system that relies on thorough, informed investigation with extensive oversight. Shaming as a punishment can subvert this system. One shames those who don't conform to one's own mores, often assuming that people with different mores simply lack moral concern altogether and thereby gratifying their own egos through a lack of critical self-examination. Shaming in the natural, anarchic setting only facilitates groupthink, deindividuation, and the preconception that things are always as they appear. Shaming inhibits free inquiry and progress toward the truth, and knowing the truth is necessary to knowing what is moral.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deindividuation#Classic_theories

 

 

R. C. Ziller (1964) argued that individuals are subject to deindividuation under more specific situational conditions. For instance, he suggested that under rewarding conditions, individuals have the learned incentive to exhibit individualized qualities in order to absorb credit for themselves; whereas, under punishing conditions, individuals have the learned tendency to become deindividuated through submergence into the group as a means of diffusing responsibility.[7]
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This attitude of "You scratch my back and I will scratch yours" is superficial. The world over Democracy is being challenged. The privacy of individuals is at stake. The secret services of Government have no morals. They consider fundamental rights violation game. Julian Asange has been accused of rape to destroy his credibility.

It is the very nature of our Governments and Bureaucracy that stands in violation of rights.

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Shaming the guilty, or punishing the guilty? Punishment generally requires an objective, standardized trial system that relies on thorough, informed investigation with extensive oversight. Shaming as a punishment can subvert this system. One shames those who don't conform to one's own mores, often assuming that people with different mores simply lack moral concern altogether and thereby gratifying their own egos through a lack of critical self-examination. Shaming in the natural, anarchic setting only facilitates groupthink, deindividuation, and the preconception that things are always as they appear. Shaming inhibits free inquiry and progress toward the truth, and knowing the truth is necessary to knowing what is moral.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deindividuation#Classic_theories

 

I guess I didn't think that through enough - i meant 'shaming' more by the fact that with better sharing of information and ideas across the world I think our ideas and morals are progressing for the better... People who once thought that wife beating was just a normal everyday human right for a man no longer get any credence what so ever. It used to be legal to rape your wife in most parts as it wasn't seen as rape but a conjugal right. We are slowly doing away with fox hunting, bear baiting bullfighting, badger baiting etc.. I am not saying that by shaming the guilty they instantly repent of their ways, but it makes them think if there is any decency and intelligence in them and the worlds slowly becomes a better place.

 

example:- I, like many, was a bit of a littler bug when I was a child.... Some old guy shouted at me for it once and tried to shame me.. He was old and I was a little frightened so I picked my litter up.. I was angry at first "how dare he tell me what to do"... but it made me think and realised that he was right and I rarely dropped litter again. Just saying that with better sharing of what we consider right and wrong, better education, the world is getting better (despite the receding horror).

This attitude of "You scratch my back and I will scratch yours" is superficial. The world over Democracy is being challenged. The privacy of individuals is at stake. The secret services of Government have no morals. They consider fundamental rights violation game. Julian Asange has been accused of rape to destroy his credibility.

It is the very nature of our Governments and Bureaucracy that stands in violation of rights.

 

I find that very defeatist - cheer up and be a bit more optimistic - have some faith in humanity and try to make the world a better place rather than spreading your doom and gloom. That's what I reckon anyway - all the best - I hope you find some peace.

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DrP, I think the old guy you mentioned was educating you about litter. Perhaps his tone intended shame, but such a tone is not necessary. Moreover, your response may have been shame, whether he intended it or not. From your recollection, I see no reason why you should feel shame, you seem to have been ignorant about the consequences of littering; although, I believe many people would feel shamed in such a situation.

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How do you know that is the case? He is too much of a coward to appear in court and defend himself. Maybe that is because he is guilty?

And it's a Sweden that wants him. Hardly a place known for injustice, corruption and authoritarianism. Because it's them that want him i suspect there is some truth in the allegations.

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Or, at least, the allegations are genuine even if he is not guilty. (Although he is such an obnoxious, arrogant, hypocrite, I would not be in the least bit surprised if he were guilty.)

Yes, I don't hold him in very high esteem either, to put it mildly.

Edited by StringJunky
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  • 3 weeks later...

It is quite amusing that in this forum we talk about AI being better than humans, but look at US today. The US may soon see AI getting equal rights to humans while humans suffer inequality at hands of other humans. Actually technological arrogance overrides people with sensitivities. Capitalism should die a horrible death.

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  • 2 weeks later...

It is quite amusing that in this forum we talk about AI being better than humans, but look at US today. The US may soon see AI getting equal rights to humans while humans suffer inequality at hands of other humans. Actually technological arrogance overrides people with sensitivities. Capitalism should die a horrible death.

AIs are not getting human rights anytime soon.

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Capitalism should die a horrible death.

 

There's no better way to grow an economic system, but not every project needs unrestrained growth. Capitalism isn't evil, it's just a wild animal that needs to be caged for public safety. Unfortunately, when you put the lions in charge of the zoo, they get rid of the locks right off.

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Only entertainment, adding.....Discussing and debating ethics today has no real meaning or purpose? If that is indeed what you mean, I could not disagree more. Especially as I am currently taking a college Ethics course. And I have to admit it's more difficult than I thought it would be. But it's fascinating. We began by studying the Classic Greeks of course.....Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle.

 

I think the questions posed in ethics are not only important ones, but timeless as well. What is more timeless than the study of morality? I right and wrong? And whether or not all that is objective or subjective? I love it, and plan to take another philosophy course this summer.

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