Posts posted by SplitInfinity
We may lose jobs in the oil industry, but your suggestion here seems to ignore all those new industries and vocations which would be created by us getting off oil. Yes, some people will lose jobs and they will need to find new sources of income, but other jobs get created by making such a shift. It's sort of how the economy is supposed to work. It's called creative destruction, and it strikes me as odd that we prioritize one local grouping of work at the expense of our entire climate and likelihood of survival as a species.
I am not advocating nor do I agree with the statement you quoted...as this statement I typed is what certain members of congress would state.
As I stated...the reasoning for such statements are due to...MONEY.
We may lose jobs in the oil industry, but your suggestion here seems to ignore all those new industries and vocations which would be created by us getting off oil. Yes, some people will lose jobs and they will need to find new sources of income, but other jobs get created by making such a shift. It's sort of how the economy is supposed to work. It's called creative destruction, and it strikes me as odd that we prioritize one local grouping of work at the expense of our entire climate and likelihood of survival as a species.
Also...there are currently working and efficient clean energy generation methods specific to Solar, Fusion and a few other Exotic forms that have been developed by the U.S. Military.
Solar has been lambasted by some as being too expensive and not efficient or cost effective. THAT...is the Biggest Joke going. As well since it is and has been a long standing goal of the U.S. Military and U.S. Military R&D Groups and Vendors to develop Low Temp. Micro-Fusion Reactors for use in powering Laser Systems and other Military Weapons platforms...it is hard to imagine that the BILLIONS of DOLLARS pumped into such secret programs over multiple decades has not produced a viable system of such energy production.
Essay, great points. I think some of that denial, frustration and anger has been appearing in the pro AGW group in the form of mocking and dehumanization of what they view is an inability of group 1 to progress in a rational context. This may be due to a lack of historical understanding of group 1, but more likely is just ad hoc reaction originating out of the frustration and anger dynamic. I would hate to think this is considered rational by its users.
The "White evangelical Christians" that DH referred to makes up a portion of Group 1, it is what remains of a larger pre-cultural revolution philosophy that was widely held at one time, it is unlikely to change substantially due to its reduction to a core configuration. I think you will see moderation around some social issues, but it is now pretty homogeneous so they are unlikely to change significantly.
I see the pro AGW group as having bigger problems than just group 1's lack of cooperation. Science is actively campaigning the AGW cause while its individual constituents work at their individual vocations that as a whole increase the effectiveness of of locating and extracting oil and gas reserves. From satellites in orbit to deep ocean exploration these systems have required the contribution of uncounted scientist. For all their frustration about the non-scientific public's apathy, the combined contribution of many fields of science continually make oil and gas viable long into the future.
There are many a new car purchased with income derived directly and even more indirectly from this source. Does everyone know for sure how much their work contributes to this perpetuation. I'm sure the thought is there on the back of everyone's mind. I remember in 1977 when oil was projected to run out by the end of the decade. It is now extended beyond mine and my children's lifetimes. This is extraordinary considering since that early decadal prediction China has greatly increased its proportion in the world oil market and AGW has been revealed as an eminent threat.
I feel the need to use that tired analogy of the Titanic again. The ship was only made possible through the contributions of untold number of scientists who's research in every aspect of state of the art technology made that ship possible. Possible to speed faster than the lookouts could see the dangers beyond.
DH, I want to dig into this a little.
"Because of their intentional ignorance and irrational beliefs, they are easily duped, and they are being duped by two key groups. One group is those industries that have a lot to lose should climate change legislation be passed".
That has the slight smell of an irrational conspiracy theory.
DH, Those industries employ how many scientist and engineers? Are they accountable for their contribution to these crimes? They knowingly work to make the company successful. Or are they duped also? Or are they willing participants in crimes against society? I'm sure they would all leave if they were not chained to their desks.
Its so much like the Nuremberg trials; "I was just following orders. I did not know what was happening".
Maybe this denial and grief with a touch of guilt has manifested in a previously undiagnosed group.
So it may be that all people have an individual and collective difficulty evaluating their own contribution and responsibility regarding the current situation. And strike out at groups that they have personal issues towards. Maybe an Anthropological attitude would be more constructive.
After all who are the ones that are considered the rational ones. arc
Arc...it's all about MONEY.....and.....SECRECY.
There is no doubt that once a particular member of the House or Senate...get's into bed with large Corps. specific to Fossil Fuel production and distribution by taking campaign contributions from such Corps...and these donations are set up to come from multiple sources under various names...such members of Congress...and they are both Conservative and Liberal...might spout whatever their constituents might need to hear but when it comes down to a VOTE....they might perhaps not show up that day or vote opposite of their stated position on Global Warming with the excuse...I am all for passing legislation to lower CO2 emissions but not at such a cost of loosing jobs for the American Worker.
Since there is NO WAY IN HELL that BIG OIL is going to make large contributions to members of Congress who will not play ball...and there is also NO WAY IN HELL...a member of Congress will pass up MILLIONS in campaign contributions as for those who do not know....once a member of congress retires....THEY GET TO KEEP WHATEVER AMOUNT OF MONEY IS LEFT IN THEIR RE-ELECTION WAR CHEST.
Since those who are EXTREMELY RELIGIOUS tend to follow and support whatever their congressmen might say if such a member supports legislation specific to Religious Ideals and Beliefs...there is a connection between those who are highly religious and those who do not support any legislation that tries to deal with Global Warming issues.
Now as far as SECRECY...a person upon this topic said that I would be aware of High Tech. Clean Energy Generation being developed for U.S. Military use....they are correct.
The U.S. Military might just have a working a Low Temp. Micro-Fusion Reactor....but no one here will ever know about it any time soon. The reasoning for this is obvious as such tech. is an issue of National Security....but isn't Global Warming as well?
Well, as I said, it was obviously your choice. I've offered you a perception that I thought might have been of some aid to you in getting your point across. You believe, I think, that my perception is flawed. Again, fair enough. Keep in mind that I did not say you were an arrogant prat, I pointed out that was how your posting style tended to make you seem.
Judging by some of the responses you have received, I suspect several members have gained a similar impression. I'm mildy surprised that you wouldn't want to alter that perception so that members and lurkers could focus on your message.
You know what is funny?
I replied by typing the word...Prat?
You replied to that in a manner where you felt I was misunderstanding that you were not calling me this as you once again stated you felt others might feel this way about me due to the way I post.
If you will notice I only referenced the word...PRAT...as well as I added a...?
The reason for this is not because I thought you were calling me this....it was because I couldn't believe there were still people living that used the word! LOL!
The idea that the origin of the Scientific Method is religious in it's nature is ridiculous.
If anything Religion is a creation not based in any way upon the Scientific Method as the tenet of all Religion is FAITH.
Science does not take anything upon FAITH.
...Right, there are also the religious-based denialists, as DH mentions; and
......and Split Infinity probably also knows that the military is looking for renewable fuel resources they can use in the field.So Arc,That sounds very reasonable, and I think I agree with what you've said and your take on the various groups. I know that many people who take (and vote) the "liberal" perspective, also go in for crop circles, ufos, and crystal healing powers, as if it were also mainstream well-established science. Everybody seems to have at least one irrational contribution to their being asa whole.I'd also agree that many of those new-age types don't have a reality-based understanding of the climate change problem; but just accept the doom-n-gloom predictions of scientists, since it does support their contention that unbridled Capitalism is driving civilization off of a cliff.As with any complex "wicked" problem, you can't expect consensus or a "silver bullet" type of solution; and so doing nothing differently, while waiting for certainty, is a trap to be avoided. Immigration and Health Care are similarly wicked problems, and those are just problems at a "national" level. It's not surprising that action on a global level is difficult.On that recently repeated NOVA show, about Ape Intelligence, they mentioned that a major difference between us and them was how we can cooperatively hold "shared goals, based on shared commitments." I don't get too concerned about how people justify or rationalize their commitment to a commonly recognized goal, but I'm always happy to help them learn more about the details of why the goal is important or how their commitment can help... as if 350 ppm would really solve our problems--lol! But achieving 350 ppm would be a huge step in the right direction; and so, whatever rationalization one adopts, it is a worthy goal.===If only we could stop our forward progress... but we can't; so I'd vote for turning our metaphorical Titanic into the minefield and utilizing our best eyes forward to try picking one slim chance of a route into safer waters. When people cooperate on a shared goal, they can create a different future for themselves. That doesn't work out so well when short-term or isolated ideological goals are pursued, but our varied management of fire (energy), land (agriculture), and civilization itself, are better examples of successful cooperation.We are really just talking about continuing our development of "techniques" to better manage fire, land, and civilization. And specifically, we are not talking about "self imposed economic hardship of permanent levels or reduced quality of life for any extended period." ...even if we deserve some.... I mean, c'mon, there ain't no free lunch--right? But it's also not about banning fossil fuels!Last century, we got rich beyond the avarice of kings, by developing a technological world that would be the envy of gods; and now we get to do it again! Sure the people who had careers making buggy whips had to adjust, but the Titan of History can't stop its forward progress. We do need to recognize the value of carbon, in a more "reality-based," comprehensive assessment, sort of way; but there are new technologies and economic sectors itching to be borne into the future, based on that more reality-based management of resources.===For liberals, I highlight the ecological dangers... and the opportunities to finally solve global problems of poverty, hunger, disease, and oppression... related to not acting, or acting on climate change, respectively. And for conservatives, I highlight the economic dangers... and the opportunities to create new jobs, new markets, technological innovations, and new economic sectors... again, related to not acting or acting--to account for physical reality--respectively.Most people don't know the details of that physical reality, or exactly how it endangers our ecosystems and our economies. Even when people want to understand the relationships, they still are often overwhelmed by the complexities and details and science. It would be like wanting to understand all the details of how chemotherapy or vaccines or antibiotics work; for most people they are satisfied accepting the accumulated scientific wisdom.===...But more on topic:American Exceptionalism is a reality, whether it is for good or not; and whether it is based on irrational rationalizations or fundamentalistic ideologies, the American mindset is an exceptional one asa whole. Only Ausie Exceptionalism comes close to being as extreme as ours, istm. Of course, they are both countries mostly formed from the misfits and rejects of an "old, established" civilization.As mentioned in post #2, when core beliefs or fundamental perspectives are challenged and undone, the "grieving process" must occur--for which the first stage is Denial--as one struggles to cling to the safety and comfort of the familiar past.The bigger they are, the harder they fall... or the harder their adjustment will be, and the stronger their denial will thus be.Challenging that American Exceptionalism, which is based on Free-Market Fundamentalism, leads to an "exceptional" grieving response, and thus an exceptional denial response; followed by exceptional anger [2nd stage] responses, if you keep pushing.Liberals quickly move on to the third, so-called "bargaining," stage.It is a bit more exceptional in many Americans than in others; but Denial is still just part of the normal grieving process.~
It is true that some Liberal Groups are advocating Fossil Fuel Bans and that would be going to far but as well some Concervative Groups are trying to tell people that Global Warming is but fantasy...it is not.
We have a very real problem that if not dealt with is going to bite us in the ass.
We don't know what was turned over under the rubric of "metadata". The phone companies themselves have all the analytical capability needed to provide everything I listed. Some of it was installed under W's dragnet surveillance program, the illegal one nobody was impeached, arrested, or even fired, for.
With better oversight, we could at least get an idea of what kinds of files the surveillance program is keeping in general, and who has access to them.
The NSA Echelon program was in place well before George W was in office.
You have to understand that regardless of what political party controls the White House and Congress...NSA programs like ECHELON will ALWAYS be running.
It is not like the Republicans are the only political party to occupy the White House and have running massive Intel programs specific to data collection and recognition.
I don't care if you are living in ESTONIA and you just purchased a $10 THROWAWAY Cell Phone...the moment that battery is in that phone...as it is not even necessary to use the phone...the NSA will know that phone exists. Such is the nature and level of technology in use in such systems.
Oh the toils of having a limit to observation. Woe... Woe!
What about a multimacroverse. I've often thought, what about the idea of everything growing larger and our brain as a tool to decelerate this macroscipation, hence, acquiring memory and allowing for multimicroverse theory to be plausible. Or I might just be living in a proctocracy lol!
Well that's just it isn't it Pop?
There are so many possibilities and probably infinite possibilities we haven't even considered...trying to explain or define EVERYTHING...is a BIG chore.
Hello Essay, Thank you for replying. I take all your points and agree things will possibly be quite bad in the future. I am a fan of history, but I would never say I am a historian. My personal take on this climate change situation is the scientific data is correct for their observations, everything adds up. My starting post is why I think Americans are skeptical and that is where this began for me. The conversation evolved to American are ignorant and then went further to they are stupid.
This was determined to be caused by irrational thought and was pointed out to me as being almost entirely contained within a certain distinguishable population of irrationally stupid. (Lets call them group 1) I am aware of other examples, and in fact larger samples of irrational thought populations can be found and I made a presentation of my findings. This was apparently not acceptable to the committee. I bring up this parallel and larger population of irrational people (group 2) because they will be in charge of things entirely once the other group is marginalized by popular culture. There is nothing more effective than well liked celebrities dehumanizing their victims.
So my feelings are this power shift will not include any increase in rational thought in group 2. Why would it. I have shown they participate in irrational behaviors parallel to group 1 and even contain individuals that have the same propensity towards violence as group 1. The rational individuals in both groups are quite small, mostly in academia, business, military and science. To small of a total to, if for any reason, balance the irrational group 2 as group 1 had done.
I have no reference in the history of drastic power shifts that include climate change. I think applying an intellectually driven example like the 1917 Russian revolution can give a little insight to the dynamics of a loss of stability in a society and total control being in one place. Germany is maybe a better example. The population was well educated and modern. If not struggling with economic crisis the tragedies that followed would not have occurred. It included the initial acquisition of power through democratic means and the marginalization of opposition groups. A very nice fit for the current situation.
The plan for dealing with climate change appears to involve reorganization of the energy and economic models currently being used. This is no easy job to pull off successfully. The majority of group 1 think it is fixed and will involve corruption similar to 1929 and 2008 levels. Even a large portion of group 2 has suspicions of corruption, but the suspects differ between the groups.
So someone like myself has great doubt that a problem of this magnitude can be successfully solved. The USA's economy and energy sectors are up for a overhaul that has never been done before with the exception of 1930 - 1945. It seems unlikely most American will sacrifice themselves to either self imposed economic hardship of permanent levels or reduced quality of life for any extended period. If you screw this up there's probably no coming back in the short term. To accomplish this it looks like one irrational group will be in charge while supervised by a very small group of rational experts.
So I do not agree that rearranging the deck chairs is an accurate analogy. I would propose instead that you are sure you see an ice berg and you are willing to risk changing coarse through a submarine mine field to avoid it. arc
P.S. I really enjoy talking to everyone. You have a great thing going here.
Arc...the Global Warming issue is not considered fantasy by the U.S. Military. That I can tell you with certainty.
Although because of American Politics and Economics...Global Warming has become a Hot Bed issue with one side claiming it to be Pseudo-Science and the other claiming it to be Inevitable...Global Warming Reality seems to be some where in between.
Although there is no doubt the Planets Climate is warming up...and there is no doubt that by pumping great amounts of CO2 into the atmosphere that this is accelerating the process...as well that due to warming trends frozen Methane in Alaskan and Siberian Lakes is converting into Gas and this Gas can heat up our atmosphere at many times the rate of CO2....there should be a balanced plan to reduce such emissions as to force strict and major changes too rapidly would have a huge effect on the Global Economy.
The U.S. Military is right now and has for some time been planning and developing a U.S. Naval Fleet for Arctic Patrols as they know within 10 years there will no longer be any Arctic Sea Ice. Because of this new shipping lanes will be available as well as this opens up the Arctic Sea Floor for Oil Exploration and the Russians actually sent out a Mini-Sub to place a small Russian Flag upon the bottom of the Arctic Ocean in some type of CLAIM for drilling rights.
The U.S. Military is also developing plans and forces to act when the inevitable Resource Wars begin due to Climate Change causing drought, famine and displacement of people living in low lying areas below sea level which will be flooded.
The subject here is
A Lingual Theory Of Everything . .
Mikey...I had this thought.
Now I know that I have gone on about the likely existence of a Multiverse but I thought I would put this out there.
We can see to the edge of our Universe with Hubble and within less than 380,000 Light Years of the Big Bang...so this basically let's us know that our Universe is FINITE....or at the very least has an edge or boundary so...either there is something BEYOND this edge or boundary or Space/Time only exists to the limits of where there is Matter and Energy as well as Dark Matter and Dark Energy.
Given this I think it to be highly unlikely that either nothing exists beyond or that there does not exist other Divergent Universal States of Reality.
Even if all this were taken into consideration in a Lingual Theory I think it would be necessary to also add to such a description a possibility for MORE to exist to be a part of this everything.
I think that EVERYTHING or INFINITE is a term that defines something that the Human Brain cannot really comprehend. Say...even if there exists a Multiverse...perhaps there also exists a MULTIMICROVERSE MULTIVERSE where the size of our Universe and possible Multiverse is riddles with other MicroUniversal States say at below Quantum Levels but having a Quantum system of their own.
Everything is a BIG word.
SplitInfinity, I think you are taking all of this way too personally. That seems to be making almost all of your posts very long with little to no actual information on whatever it is you're arguing. Not to mention in your last post the very first thing you did was make a false equivalence between things that are both against the law and physically/mentally damaging with consensual attractions. Fallacious arguments like that are what people don't give two craps about, and they are the bulk of your posts with life details thrown in.
Ringer...I actually am not taking this issue personally but I can understand why you might think so due to my typing style. LOL!
What I DO feel is important is to point out WHY an issue exists and what can be done to work things out...and this working things out would be specific to communication, understanding and finding common ground.
I do not think it is helpful or beneficial for anyone to say or think that just because another person or group thinks and feels and believes differently than I do that there is something wrong with that person or group or there is something that must be forcefully changed.
I support Gay Rights and Gay Marriage. I do not feel that anyone who does not has something wrong with them or is Homophobic because they do not support these issues.
As well I do not think it is anyone's place to tell another what they can or cannot do as long as it does not hurt anyone.
Obviously...some here feel it is their place to tell others they are doing something wrong and they are misguided, ignorant and wrong for doing, acting or feeling a certain way. I reject this notion.
As a disinterested observer I think part of the problem here may be that you come across as a bit of an arrogant prat. Consequently some members are reacting more to the format of your message than to the message itself. I imagine you are going for honesty and frankness, but - from my POV - it's coming across as self righteous smugness. That's a pity, since there are elements of your thesis that seem plausible and certainly worthy of more respect than I think they are currently getting. It might be worth considering a style change - or not. Your choice, obviously.
I would think that the term...SELF-RIGHTEOUS...would much more aptly fit those who are telling me that I am wrong, misguided and ignorant in feeling disgust when I might happen to view two Homosexual men French Kissing.
Just who are these people to think, believe and be so self-righteous to judge me?
Split Infinity....Prat? Really? LOL!0
1. Vaccines are very important. No disagreement there. I am talking about vaccine safety.
2. I am not talking about someone having a reaction to a vaccine. I am talking about people DEVELOPING food allergies because of vaccines/injections due to food proteins being present in the vaccines/injections.
3. Life threatening food allergies should never be the price one has to pay to get immunized.
4. With strong evidence showing parenteral administration of food proteins causes food allergies, why are millions of kids being vaccinated with unsafe vaccines/injections that is causing the food allergy epidemic?
In that case I whole Heartedly agree with you.
Sorry if I jumped on you. I guess I have read one topic too many where people are advocating that parents should not have their children immunized.
I had read one mother telling the membership that she pulled her kids out of school rather than be forced to have them immunized as the school would not allow non-vaccinated children to attend school.
Because I travel and have traveled...EXTENSIVELY...and not just to Europe as a short time ago...I was doing a...JOB...upon several islands off the coast of Sumatra. Every time I have to go to places like this...ESPECIALLY ANYWHERE in Africa...I have to get booster shots and some for diseases I have never even heard of. I have to get these shots a few months in advance if possible and sometimes it is not possible so there are risks involved.
I have seen...FIRSTHAND...what certain viral Hemorrhagic Fevers can do to a whole village in a week and TB is ALL OVER THE 3RD WORLD...and if a child in the U.S. is not immunized they can easily contract it from certain children specific to immigrant groups attending public schools.
Such young parents have been born in an age of Medical Miracles and have NO HISTORY OR MEMORIES of any time as those in the past in the U.S. where massive sanitoriums were built to house the infected and contagious as MILLIONS of the so called...WALKING DEAD...as there was neither a vaccine or a cure for TB, Small Pox...and a very large number of diseases that such a modern day parent has never even heard of knows about.
Although I agree that great caution should be taken in developing such vaccines...it is utter stupidity and as well is shear ignorance for any parent to not get their children vaccinated.
You should note that me, and others like me, don't give two craps what you feel and how you respond, nor does it matter to me and others like me what others think is "relevant" when they're misguided, ignorant and wrong.
And this is the reason that issues like this exist.
We are not discussing whether a person would be wrong for wanting to shoot another person who raped or killed their wife or husband. We are not talking about if it is wrong to feel anger or disgust when we read about what a Pedophile did to some poor kid.
If we were and a person said..."Well...I don't think it's right for anyone to be disgusted reading about what a person who like to have sex with young kids." I am quite sure not only would I be saying..."WHAT!? Are you crazy!? How can you feel it's wrong for me to feel disgust reading about what a Pedophile has done to a child!?"....but you would as well.
Now in my case where I am saying I feel disgust when seeing two Men French Kiss...you are telling me that my feelings are MISGUIDED, IGNORANT AND WRONG.
Now this is no where to the same extent of an issue as the aforementioned but in both cases a person or persons feels DISGUSTED...both myself and I am quite certain you as well upon hearing someone saying that they feel it is wrong for another to feel DISGUST upon reading about a Pedophiles attack of a child................and ME saying I feel DISGUST when I view two men French Kissing.
But you feel I am misguided, ignorant and wrong to feel this disgust viewing the two men in very much the same way the person who feels another to be misguided, ignorant and wrong for both you and I feeling DISGUST about the Pedophiles actions.
Now in NO WAY AM I COMPARING HOMOSEXUAL ACTIVITY TO PEDOPHILIA...I am comparing how different people feel and believe different things and whether such things are right or wrong or have a need to be stopped or are perfectly legitimate are based on a very complex and varying Genetic, Psychological, Cultural and Religious reasons.
For you to feel a person or group of people is doing something that is wrong or misguided...and you think along the lines of the way your quoted reply reads above...that being...quote..."You should note that me, and others like me, don't give two craps what you feel and how you respond, nor does it matter to me and others like me what others think is "relevant" when they're misguided, ignorant and wrong."...end quote.....
...well then you should realize that...you and others like you that don't give two craps....are not only part of the problem but also...for you to think like this does not help the issue nor is it a way of thinking that is needed to bridge the gap between different schools of thought.
Your way of thinking is very much the same as when Gay Rights activists in Boston filed suit to allow them to march in the Boston St. Patrick's Day Parade as OPENLY GAY IRISHMEN AND IRISHWOMEN. They knew ahead of time what a sensitive issue this was among the very religious Irish American Community and the result of them getting a court order to allow them to march was the CANCELLING OF THE BOSTON ST. PATRICK'S DAY PARADE....the largest in the U.S. and Largest in the WORLD.
Several MILLION PEOPLE and over 600,000 children under 13 years old were disappointed in the cancellation and this set back Gay Rights years and put all New England against the Gay Rights activists.
If they had asked to march just like any other Irish American's their would not have been an issue and you certainly don't see anyone in that parade holding up a sign that say's...HEY HO LET'S GO HETERO! They told Parade organizers they would be marching with signs advocating Homosexuality as well as men would be dressing IN DRAG.
So although I have no issue with ANYONE marching in the parade I don't think such a parade is the place to advocate a persons SEXUAL ORIENTATION!
So according to your way of thinking...the Parade Organizers are misguided, ignorant and wrong and PEOPLE LIKE YOU DON'T GIVE TWO CRAPS ABOUT WHAT THEY THINK.
Well....THAT IS THE PROBLEM!
But it apparently has something to do with gender, despite having nothing to do with reproduction per Split's definition. I suggest that we ditch the sexist pseudopsychology posing as pseudoecology.
That was very alpha-like, iNow.
Monday...his response is not that of an ALPHA in any way shape or form.
An ALPHA...would NEVER respond like that as anyone that is Alpha IS CONCERNED how other feel, think and respond. Whether the Alpha agrees or disagrees with a person or groups thinking or idealism makes no difference as the Alpha by nature is HARDWIRED to have the need to protect the group and whether such concern has a base in obtaining as much knowledge as possible about a person or others for the purpose of developing a plan of action or a methodology of dealing with such people or groups....or if such concern is based upon being able to understand the thinking and idealism of members of those an Alpha is charged with protecting.
An Alpha would NEVER state they don't care or actually show no interest or ignore a potential problem or issue that either is occurring or will occur at a later date.
Alpha male has nothing to do with homosexual or heterosexual...
You are correct. Ones Sexual Orientation has no bearing upon whether one is Alpha or not.
Whether or not you are "normal" - for your culture and time, of course - has nothing to do with the matter at hand.
Neither does the working definition of alpha male - completely irrelevant.
Why do you insist on such irrelevant matters?
Your statement is indicative of why you do not understand this issue.
What you think is IRRELEVANT...is very much RELEVANT TO MANY OTHER PEOPLE.
Unless you come to understand this...you will never find common ground with others and be able to take into account how others feel and respond.
Let's not involve conspiracy theorist fantasies, shall we?
Well...the concept is sound even if we don't know how to do it.
It is easy to find information on the web for tick association to red meat allergy.
So far I have not come across tomato proteins being used in injections/vaccines. So many growth media are used in the development of vaccines. May be some do include tomato extract?
The following are the most common food allergies in the US.
- Tree nuts (such as almonds, cashews, walnuts)
- Fish (such as bass, cod, flounder)
- Shellfish (such as crab, lobster, shrimp)
While the conclusion the authors have drawn is one possibility, there may be another...
Perhaps the child did not have egg allergy before parenteral nutrition. The 14-day delay before symptoms may have been the actual time it took to develop sensitization to the parenteral nutrition proteins. We know that vaccines need a couple of weeks to offer protection. Perhaps the egg based parenteral nutrition resulted in the child developing egg allergy.
When we look at the benefits vs. any possible drawbacks that could arise from a child or adult getting a vaccine...the benefits greatly outweigh any drawbacks.
I find the whole..."I am not having my kid immunized."....crowd ridiculous in their thinking. What is even more ridiculous is how this group basically REWRITES history as many a time have I heard or read these people state that Vaccines have never done any good or have never been a benefit in fighting disease. LOL!
Sure...there are going to be some who have a reaction but what if people had never had their kids immunized for SMALL POX?
There was a disease that killed MILLIONS and now because in the past people were immunized...Small Pox has vanished from the face of the Earth...except in Labs.
Hyperspace is a cheat used in science fiction to circumvent some inconvenient physical laws, but it usually ignores the fact that if you could travel faster than light, you'd wind up going backwards in time and arrive at your destination before you left.
Actually...the concept of Warping Space/Time or Folding Space/Time...is possible if you know how to do it.
One would have to have an understanding of the UFT or Unified Field Theory....have an Isotopes of Element 115...some Antimatter and one hell of a Quantum Computing System for Navigation.
Theory is...since all particles of Mass are completely comprised of Quantum Particle/Wave Forms...such as the Higgs-Boson...if you could generate a huge amount of energy to represent Mass...you could create a Gravity Well directionally and have a craft either FALL towards the Gravity Well...or FOLD Space/Time and thus you would be able to Travel without Moving.
This solves such issues as Faster than Light Travel as you would not be doing this as well as you would not have Time Dilation issues.
The method theoretically is that a specific isotopes of Element 115 when bombarded by High Energy Protons will have this elements Atomic Nucleus exhibit what is known as the STRONG FORCE OF GRAVITY. Antimatter is then added to create a reaction generating huge amounts of energy.
Since there is not enough Antimatter in our Universe to create the required energy needed...this Element in reaction with the Protons and Antimatter creates such energy in a Multiversal Energy Cascade.
The NSA Computer Network and Software code named...ECHELON...which Lockheed labeled...P415 has been around for quite some time. A Newer network and software is now being used although it is unclear if it is still under the NSA code name ECHELON.
Echelon is quite simply the most complex and comprehensive network and programming ever devised by Mankind...and one can only guess at the capabilities it now has.
Every single electronic communication upon Earth...and not upon Earth as well...is monitored by this network. It is so advanced that the NSA can even tell WHO is typing on any keyboard as things such as Key Stroke Pattern Recognition...Subject Pattern identity, voice prints, Texting Pattern...YOU NAME IT!
The fact is they already know who is doing what to who, where, how and why...but in order for such information to hold up in court...they need to LEGALLY use it as evidence.
The JOKE here is a lot of people are naive enough to think that if this new law was not passed then the NSA would not be listening and watching. They have been doing this for Multiple Decades and they know all there is to know already.
Then we have been talking past each other, as I suspected. This thread is about the vegan movement, not so much the more general ethical quandaries, and that is what I was addressing. I do don't deny what you are saying and have even agreed with it in a few posts (including the one you quoted).
You are right in that the topic is specific to Eating Vegan...as a way to prevent animal cruelty...or maybe not? LOL!
So the topic is specific to Vegan ideals being followed to perhaps stop animal cruelty.
That argument would be impossible to prove.
Since there is ZERO CHANCE that even if several Billion Dollars was spent upon advocating the benefits of eating a Vegan Diet...that people would stop eating Beef, Chicken, Fish, Pork, Lamb...etc.
Also the term Vegan...has not been defined as some who profess to be Vegan still eat Eggs, Fish and Dairy. I have also been a part of a ridiculous argument with a person on a Vegan Diet where they ate Eggs and Dairy trying to tell me that eating Eggs is not considered eating Meat.
Now whether a person would make the argument that Meat is Animal Flesh and since a chicken egg has not yet developed into an actual chicken...that this is not meat...the egg is still an animal embryo and thus is comprised of ANIMAL.
Although eating Dairy is not killing an animal for food...cheese, milk, cream...etc...is still comes from an animals body and has the same DNA.
Some will also eat Fish and I cannot see how Fish are any less of an animal as we are.
So the word VEGAN has to be defined first in order to understand what we are dealing with. But let's say for Ha, Ha's...we are talking about a strict Vegan Diet...all plant matter nothing that is either an animal or comes from an animal.
If people...in the completely unrealistic possibility...stopped eating animal flesh and products...there would have to be planted a massive amount of crops for which the main fertilizer for is created by ground Fish such as Menhaden...which are caught by the Millions in commercial fishing nets.
So by replacing plants for animals for food...such crops are still going to need fertilizer thus causing the deaths of untold multiple millions of fish.
This Fringe Vegan concept is not only without merit it has ZERO chance of ever happening as well the supposed MORALITY upon which such ideals are based upon is flawed.
I have no issue with passing laws which would prevent cruelty to Livestock and as a Hunter believe that Food Animals should be raised in sanitary and open ranges or areas which will prevent disease and trauma to the animals that would be kept in Factory Box Fashion. Kills should be clean and quick and made painless...and this is possible.
Vegans could do much more good if they stopped alienating themselves with the vast majority of people who eat Meat and it is only by RESPECT of each sides position and rights that the Cruelty to Animals issue will be resolved. Splattering people and their cars coming out of a Slaughter House will do nothing other than entrench those peoples ideals and how groups such as PETA can think that doing such things will help their chosen cause is beyond me as well is not close to being understood by those people who have a lot less reverence for animal life than I do.
I would think that the issue...Stopping Cruelty to Animals...is a lot more important...and should be viewed as such by PETA and other Vegan Groups...to a much greater extent than preserving such groups pride.
Ask yourself this...What would generate more benefit to the Stop Cruelty to Animals cause?
Vegans throwing Red Pain Bombs at John Smith...a 40 year old worker at a Cut's of Beef Boxing and Distribution Plant....OR...
...Members of PETA in a MEDIA COVERED EVENT...standing side by side with 40 year old Beef Steak Boxer...JOHN SMITH and hundreds more like John...at a FUND RAISER for raising money for research into DISEASE AND ANTIBIOTIC, GROWTH HORMONE AND STEROID FREE LIVESTOCK being raised Free Range and Healthy...where the animals choice flesh/food body areas are well developed thus money making....as well as such research being specific to keeping Slaughter House Workers SAFE from dangerous bacteria and other possible transmitted diseases.
If Vegans and or PETA was to swallow their PRIDE and hold a single one of these events...the attitude of most people toward them as well as their reputations would SOAR. They would then be considered a voice of reason and an group interested in doing what CAN BE DONE...rather then a group doing what it's EGO tells it to do.
I will have to agree with you, when you put it that way, that people that believe in God are broken. At least those that fit the fanatic description. They have obviously mistaken the situation, and bought a line of crap, that has no bearing on, or function in, reality.
They are, as you put it, either stupid pawns in the brainwashed and decieved young case, or insane in the sociopathic "leader" case.
I forget who said it long ago in this thread, but to paraphrase that somebody "you can believe any damn fool thing you want, just don't make it affect me."
Perhaps, as you shook in anger, retelling the story, beyond the anger you felt at yourself for not listening to your own instincts, was your anger at the insanity that the shooter had brought into "our" reality.
In anycase Split, thank you, for what you do. I know you do it, on "our" behalf.
I appreciate your words but I feel uncomfortable being thanked...if you can understand why I would.
There are somethings that I have...Let the Cat out of the Bag...and this is one of them and as I just explained to Pop in a PM...the reason that ANYONE even knows about this story is because of the VEST.
I have already gotten into Hot Water over talking about this but since I really don't care I will tell you what I told Pop.
I want ALL U.S .MILITARY PERSONAL to be able to have a stronger version of these vests. The reason why they don't is...MONEY!
These vests are EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE and a version for standard use would be even more so.
The Brass would rather spend such money on Big Ticket Defense Systems rather than on such vests and I am NOT happy about it. The vests would have to be thicker and larger to cover more area upon a Soldiers Body but expensive as it would be...it could replace these HEAVY, THICK, HOT, DIFFICULT TO WEAR....VESTS...that do not allow easy movement and weigh a ton.
If you see our guy's in the desert they have to slide Metal Plates into their vests and this makes the damn things so hot and heavy that many will not use the metal plates and if they get hit...the round will go right through the old vests.
As I said...if it were not a fact I am advocating the switch to these High Tech Vest Designs...no one here would have ever known about them nor would I have told that story.
That vest saved my life and I can tell you...where I was...the difficulty it took to get there as well as the heat...if I didn't have that vest I would not have been wearing a vest with heavy Metal Plates slid into it. I would have not put in the plates...and I would be very much dead.
One thing that I have issue with is how certain people of Religion will not respect another persons right to believe what they will and will evangelize their religion to the point where a person has to practically scream...ENOUGH!
They also cannot accept that a person who does not believe as they do or will not convert to their religion after their attempts to convince a person that their religion is the only true belief...they can't accept the idea that another's beliefs are acceptable or sane.
Now I have a problem with this as I respect their right to believe whatever they wish but I do not respect their concepts that those who do not believe as they must have something wrong with they and that this differing person must be SAVED.
If there was anything that could be called BROKEN...it is a person who is so self righteous to believe that ONLY THEIR religious beliefs are important or true.
Wow Split. I'm sorry for your experience, you moved me with that post. I can say nothing less than I love you. I think you do this world a great service and I'm glad to have you here with us. If there is anything I can do for you, let me know.
Pop...just to be clear...I am NOT Military although most of my Family is...so as the word...SERVICE...tends to make people think of Military Service...I just wanted people to know that I have not been of service in that manner.
A better word to use would be...Maintenance.
And we have pointed out multiple reasons why this is not true. So, it is now time for you to provide us with a link of a research that shows this. All you are doing is repeating yourself, and that is not good enough anymore.
Just show us what the radiation protection of the ISS is made of (hint: thin aluminium).
Here is an article about the ISS. It says the "shielding is disappointing", and a 3-month stay is equal to 10% of the cancer risk of long term smokers. In my book, that is not "being killed quickly".
And here is a list of materials and how much shielding they provide. Notice that air is on that list too, suggesting that the atmosphere itself will shield you.
You know...I was wrong about part of this...and if I am wrong I will admit it.
Because the ISS is in Low Earth Orbit and thus is protected to an extent by Earth's Magnetic Field...as long as there are no Solar Flares or Massive Cosmic Ray Bursts...even an unshielded astronaut will not get irradiated to the point they will die in short order.
Now this is different if there is a Solar Flare or a Cosmic Radiation Burst or Event. In this case even if the ISS Astronauts go to the most shielded area of the station it is not a guarantee they will survive large Radiation events. An UNSHIELDED ASTRONAUT would instantly receive a LETHAL DOSE OF RADIATION...but as I said...I was wrong about a non-Solar Flare Event or a Non-Cosmic Ray Burst Event.
As far as an Unshielded Astronaut in interplanetary space...they will die for certain but to radiation.
I hate to join in without reading the previous 69 pages but that is what I am going to do (sorry no offense to the rest of the posters).
Split, I learn more about you every post. It's nice to get to know more about you, I had my suspicions about who you were, but those have been put to rest by now.
I do not believe that people who believe in god are broken. What does it mean to be "broken" in the first place? I assume that it means something along the lines of having a negative impact on society. I think we can all agree that we are all victims to cause and effect and that our minds are no exception. That being said, the issue of whether there is a creator or not is still moot, and I'm not sure if the issue will ever be anything less than moot. Therefor, to say that people who believe in God are broken is a gross overgeneralization. It doesn't hold for everyone. I consider myself to be along the lines of agnostic, not that I have no theory of a creator, just that the only plausible theory IMO is that a creature is responsible for the computational program that we live in (if that statement has any merit). Therefor, is this belief (one that I have not yet conclusively made a stance on and will not for good purposes philosophical) in itself a belief that will cause me to justifiably kill or harm innocent people? Even if the answer is yes, I would also need to believe that I have a body that will allow me to perform those actions. So, given this bit, the premise that the belief in God (in itself) is detrimental and, in [fact], a harmful belief for society, all things being equal, is not sufficient to conclude that it should be eliminated from our knowledge. Imo, there's no harm in believing in god, and the belief itself will not make you "broken". Cause and effect, pragmatically speaking, is, however, a good premise on the harmful nature of beliefs, but only if, in every circumstance, that belief was presumed in the action and/or used as justification for an immoral action.
Pop...the violent people I have been describing do not think for a second what they are doing is wrong. In fact they actually believe with 100% Certainty that by doing such horrifying acts they are ensuring their entry into Heaven or Paradise.
What is even worse is that many times these self righteous scumbags will exhibit such cowardice as they are perfectly willing to be very vocal about what they feel should be done and will preach so to many...but when the time comes for them to enact their plans...it is not THEY who will be sacrificing their lives in some twisted act of terror...but instead they will convince some KID to do so with the promise of Virgins and Paradise.
This is also true in the U.S. as there are many Ultra-Religious Terrorists be it about Planned Parenthood or Gay Marriage or Separation of Church and State...who indoctrinate the youth and the poor as they preach that all the problems these people are enduring are caused by any people or group...such as a Planned Parenthood Clinic....and that GOD wants young Johnny X to kill a Doctor as this will cure all Johnny X's problems and GOD will reward him.
These people REALLY BELIEVE THIS...although some in leadership know they are using but pawns.
I am not supposed to get involved with anything Stateside but if anyone believes THAT...I have some Swampland in Florida for sale! LOL! MANY TIMES....such U.S. Based Groups have the backing of members of Congress as they are Large Campaign Contributors and sometimes such groups CROSS THE LINE...and when that happens...either Deals are Brokered or Money is Paid. And if that doesn't work...a last attempt is made....and it is made 100% CLEAR to such people or groups..."Either take the deal or your group will cease to exist."
Now when something of this nature is made CLEAR to people or groups overseas...THEY UNDERSTAND COMPLETELY what the result will be to refuse to take the deal...and almost 100% of the time a deal is brokered. If they are Hardcore Ultra-Religious Fanatics on the outside but the leadership is NOT and uses religion as a mechanism to get people to do things...about 80% of the time they take the deal. If the leadership are also fanatics...about only 5% of the time will a deal be made and brokered.
The thing is....RATIONAL PEOPLE...are well aware EXACTLY what it means if I am there with my team and I can work with RATIONAL PEOPLE regardless of what are the politics or what we think of each other. When the Leadership of such groups is just as INSANE as the membership...there is ZERO% chance of a deal and I KNOW THIS and because of it I also know if they agree to a MEETING...then there is a 99.99999% chance it is a setup designed to kill us.
When such people agree to a meeting and I know it is a setup...I still have to go as even though there is only a .00001% chance a deal will be brokered...we still have to try as even if we go after them...we could never get them all so a DEAL is ALWAYS better than confrontation.
I have posted this before so I will not go into detail but it was EXACTLY what I am talking about here that was the cause of my being SHOT multiple times in the chest at close range and if I had not been wearing a Ultra-Light High Tech. Vest...it has no Metal or Ceramic Plate inserts and CATCHES a round like a Chinese Finger Puzzle...and is designed to allow full range of movement, designed for High Temps. and Water based Op's...and although it will not stop small arms fire from penetrating a persons body...it will stop a round from deep ballistic penetration...as long as it is not a 50 Cal. or along that lines. It will even stop some small arms Armor Piercing rounds due to how it works.
Anyways...BECAUSE I WAS STUPID...and was full of myself and patting myself on the back for several Very Successful JOBS...in a row...and because of this thought I was Bullet Proof and could get people to work things out with us....I MISSED what later on I realized to be OBVIOUS SIGNS OR CLUES as to these dirt bags intentions...AND THANKFULLY...I was the only one who paid for it as I was shot at close range and none of my guys was hit.
I learned a VALUABLE LESSON that day and it was not just the lesson of allowing my EGO and PRIDE dictate how I should go about such things as well as the lesson to always TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS....as when this meeting started...MY SUBCONSCIOUS WAS SCREAMING TO ME DANGER! DANGER!...and I ignored it.
But the real VALUABLE LESSON I LEARNED WAS...When it comes to trying to work things out with such people or even go to a meeting...THIS TYPE OF PEOPLE COULD NOT BE TRUSTED IN ANY WAY OR ANY POSSIBLE REASON! They cannot be trusted to do or act in any way that takes into account a VALUE UPON HUMAN LIFE...no matter what the age of a person might be or whether they are a Mother or Grandfather or little Boy or Girl...NEVER MIND a 6 foot 1 plus 225 lbs Man carrying a weapon.
The SOLE INTENT OF THIS MEETING...was to KILL ME. There was no other purpose for it as far as they were concerned. The more we passed along our intentions of desiring to solve this in a peacefully and civil manner...the greater the enthusiasm this group had in planning to kill me.
There was one person in particular who was a Leader of this group and unlike other groups where the Leaders hide behind walls and Governmental positions as they use Pawns to do their Dirty Work...THIS GUY...well he liked to BE THERE and be all nice and personal. Reports alerted us to the reality that he was very intelligent...which I mistaked for an opportunity to be able to REASON with such a person.
What I did not understand at the time is that although he was highly intelligent....He was completely INSANE. He actually though he had GOD inside him pulling the trigger and thrusting the knife.
He shot me several times and I went down. We had a few team members with Barrett 50 Cal's set up but this happened so fast...and I don't think he thought I was wearing a vest as this Ultra-Light one is very thin and I was wearing it under my cloths...so I don't think he knew I was wearing a vest because his shots could have easily been in my HEAD.
I went down angry beyond belief. Mostly angry with myself for being so F'n STUPID! The 50 Cal's opened up but the guy who got me was now down behind a large bolder. My Team member was down to my right taking fire and as he was asking me how I was I saw the guy who shot me move a bit and start to take off.
I looked for and found my rifle...used my team members body to rest my weapon upon and then ended this guy...with A LOT of satisfaction I might add. It was the FIRST AND ONLY time I have EVER been HAPPY to do something of this nature...and I do not have nightmares about it...except the part of getting shot as I have OVER AND OVER again thought about how LUCKY I was that none of my guy's were hurt or killed.
It could have very well been that WE were the ones being ended. I think about this all the time and I am actually THANKFUL for it as it was a hard lesson to learn but a lesson that keeps me and my people alive. I will NEVER AGAIN...make the mistake of allowing my EGO or PRIDE dictate how I handle any JOB. I also have sworn to myself TO NEVER FORGET...IF SOMETHING FEELS WRONG IT IS WRONG....as we have INSTINCTS FOR A REASON! To keep us alive. And that day I had made the mistake of fearing that if I treated this person with distrust he would be insulted and this could possibly ruin the chance for a deal.
Now...I could CARE LESS how another sees me or thinks or feels about me. Getting a deal done is not worth the lives of my guys or myself.
Sorry that was so long.
It is a touchy subject for me and I am shaking just typing it as the anger...which I am directing at myself for being such an IDIOT...is coursing through me.
So you don't think that having sex with a man and a woman is indicative of at the very least bi sexual behavior? I am straight but not disgusted by homosexual behavior but I have never participated in sex with a woman and a man, first because I think it's abusive to the woman but mostly because i don't share with other men, sexual behavior with another man, even if it is with a woman as well qualifies as bi sexual behavior at the very least. And yes i have had many opportunities to have sex with couples, i was in my prime in the 70's when almost anything was allowed but sex with a man and a woman just wasn't on my agenda, it didn't repel me but I have just never been interested in sexual activity with other men, but evidently you were... busted dude, alpha male maybe, but that is bi sexual behavior at the very least...
I have had sex with Bisexual WOMEN...not MEN! I have in fact had sex with more than one Bisexual woman at a time...many times as such women who follow the band tend to want to please us and some might be Genetically Predisposed to be Bisexual but I am fairly certain the majority of such women who are young and crave experiences...tend to want to impress us with their open sexuality as being in a signed touring band leads to a person such as myself having...SEEN IT ALL...these girls know this and they want to leave an impression.
Now as I said...I admit to not having issue or negative feelings in any manner whatsoever when it comes to Lesbian sexual activity or female Bisexual activity. Although I do tend to get a good laugh when I see a Butch dressed and acting girl ask me..."So...How about those Patriots?...as she does so in a deep masculine voice while standing as straight up as she can to look taller....but other than that...Women...Sexual Activity...No Issues.
When it comes to viewing Male Homosexual activity of a nature such as French Kissing or anything of a heavier duty sexual nature...I FREELY ADMIT EXPERIENCING A FEELING OF DISGUST.
This doesn't mean I think what these two men are doing is wrong or is something that should be against the law. It just means...I DO NOT ENJOY WATCHING IT! That's all there is to it and I do not think there is anything wrong in me feeling that way as it is PERFECTLY NORMAL TO DO SO.
It is obvious that you have been victimized by a man or men that either said they were Alpha in their nature or you assumed as much.
Being ALPHA as far as Humans are concerned is not what you think it is. In the wild the Alpha Wolf is so by brute strength and obtains the leadership position by defeating all challenges and rivals. This wolf also gets his pick of females as well as eats first and is first in all things. Weak members of the pack are sometimes weeded out and killed by this Alpha.
Although this also happens in Humanity...such a Human Male is more akin to an @%$ Hole than an ALPHA MALE.
Being a TRUE Alpha Male is about protecting the group, making the right decisions, being a leader because you are CHOSEN TO BE...not because you sought out leadership or have a need to dominate others.
Being Alpha means that you know the group is only as strong as it's weakest link and to remove such a weak link instead of just FIXING THAT LINK...shows all that YOU ARE WEAK in doing so. A TRUE Alpha is capable of protecting the WHOLE GROUP...not just changing the group in order to make things easier.
When I was a kid I was involved in Scouting and I became an Eagle Scout as well as became a Staff Member of a Leaders Training Development Corps....I also was a Life Guard and in the summer would dedicate my time to teach Inner City Kids about Scouting, Nature, Forestry, Swimming and Water Survival, Woodland Survival and many other things.
Such Survival Skills and Training continued after I left Scouting as I would go on to teach Ocean Survival, Winter Survival, Jungle, Arctic, Desert and Survival Methods specific for many different latitudes. To teach such things is SERIOUS BUSINESS and in particular...in Arctic Survival...as part of the training...a person would have to Fall into Ocean Water wearing full gear...learn how that within less than 2 minutes...and depending upon temp. even less time...from the moment they got out of the water...and this had to be done asap if not...d.e.a.d....they had to learn how to remove their cloths, change into gear that they were taught to store wrapped in anything water proof or resistant they had...plastic, seal skin, walrus hide...or even wrapped and folded in such a manner that if these pack cloths were submerged because of the way they were rolled and folded...they would not get fully soaked.
I taught them how to make Ice Traps, Igloos...and making either of these takes a lot of skill and work...how to make a weapon out of a plastic SPORK...how to bait a seal at an opening in the ice and as the seal came on to the ice...slide a Ice Hole Cover...made out of Sea Ice...to block the animals retreat...and how to kill, gut and butcher such animals all the while looking over your shoulder for the inevitable Polar Bear who can smell Blood MILES away.
Now I have seen men who were staff on such training programs be THROWN OUT OF THE PROGRAM...because they THOUGHT they were Alpha as for them...it was more important for them to feel superior and dominant over those they trained rather than JUST TRAIN THEM.
That is the difference...and I think you have at some time in the past been victimized by those who thought they were Alpha.
I understand your point, about religious people that are operating with such a diverse mindset from "reason", that they cannot be reasoned with. One of my main reasons for trying to understand what people "mean" by god, was 9/11, where the action, done presumably in the name of Allah, to deal a blow to Satan, looked like nothing more than pure Evil to me. Death and destruction for no purpose, no goal, no sensible reason.
I am an enemy of those that would be behind such a day as 9/11. I am not the enemy of the creator of the universe. Therefore the action was not taken by the creator of the universe, and anyone thinking that the creator of the universe was served by such an action, is in serious error.
So for me, in this discussion, where belief in the creator of the universe is being equated with error and brokeness, I fully agree, as in the case of 9/11, where it is so obvious that the creator of the universe would not do such a contrary thing, and therefore it must be the act of broken persons, in serious error.
This however does not convict God of the act, nor prove to us, that there is not a higher standard we should hold ourselves to.
So if God exists, he wouldn't do that, and if God doesn't exist, he didn't do that by virtue of the fact that he doesn't exist to do that.
Which leaves only us, to figure out what should and shouldn't be done, what standards to enforce and uphold, and what things are good and what things are bad for us, here and now, and for our children, who will take our places when we die.
In this, the "idea" of God, of an overarching ideal that we are responsible to, and "working for", when we do our job correctly, is not a bad thing to believe in.
However, if you think personally, that you are the only one on the job, the only one doing it right...you have somehow missed the point.
Tar...What I am trying to convey is...from MY experience...and such experience is long...almost 3 decades...and extensive...of all the groups and people I have had to deal with...those who performed the most vicious and violent actions as well as being people who I had a very difficult to almost impossible time trying to find common ground from which to broker an agreement with...were people and groups that acted out of Religious ideals and concepts.
This in no way means everyone who believes in a GOD or follows a Religion is vicious and violent or would ever do anything that would call for a visit from me and my team.
All this means is that from my experience...as well as the experience of others that do what I sometimes do as I have had many a conversation about this...the most unpredictable, violent, dangerous, self righteous, least concerned for innocent life and willing to do just about ANYTHING to further their cause...are those people who are HIGHLY RELIGIOUS BELIEVERS IN A GOD.
You would not BELIEVE some of the things such people have on their RAP SHEET. It reads like a DEMON'S LIST!
Now I do not think people who believe in a GOD are broken. But there are some who definitely are and seem to exist at a much greater percentage of the whole than any other group.
A lingual theory of everything
I find it interesting that of all the possible paths existing which choices are expressed in a possible Multiverse....very often these paths end at a BAR! LOL!