SomethingToPonder

I hardly see how. Why do you never offer explanations? It seems to me you just have turned this into an argument between me and you which i dont want, I actually do enjoy reading some of your posts and in no way think im better than you, though i suspect you think you are better or smarter than me. How does a cold hard fact not trump a theory? It makes no sense whatsoever. I learned the proper meaning of scientific theory with links provided to me because i obviously had it wrong, And with that in mind i definitely think fact trumps theory, Actually i think it's blatantly obvious. You think a theory trumps a fact then? sounds to me like you have no clue. Thanks for pointing that out, I found a good few points there and i agree especially with what you said about the support of a theory and you are right evolution is without a doubt probably correct. Iwould also like to say i was never trying to say the theory of evolution was wrong. I was only asking if something else could happen. I think it was something to do with if say the brought back a dinosaur that was only a few generations away from evolving if you will, could it then transform upon it being brought back within a few generations or something along the lines. I was never trying to disprove evolution or anything like that.

I can tell the direction this thread is going in and i really do not want to get into any prolonged unnecessary arguments. I understand i made a mistake with the definition of theory and i did apologize for that and researched the links provided to me. So i got a clue and I am still trying to get a better understanding of what you have said and am researching it all Moontanman as you would have seen if you had read my one or two threads stating that. here's a quote from what pwagen said above. " you're definitely doing the right thing in looking it up and trying to get a better understanding, instead of simply dismissing what Moontanman said." could we please maybe get back on topic to the original point. remember i did ask this question on here because i know there are a lot of very intelligent people on here who might have some great insight. Not for any other reason.

I knew you would respond with something similar to this. Yes a fact would be that gravity exists, decent enough? Or that humans cant breathe underwater. I understand that it would be immensely harder to prove a scientific theory but even so, a fact does trump theory. could you explain to me how you understand that is what i would say please?

Excuse me i am just after apologizing for that. maybe you didn't see that as i just recently posted it. I did look up the links i was given and thank you for pointing out my errors. But are you really trying to say here that a Theory could not be proven wrong? because if that is the case then im afraid you are wrong. I do get that a theory is as good as it gets and many are most likely, Not even most likely, Il go as far as to say probably correct. However that does not mean that because it is classed as a theory that it is definitely to be believed. If this was the case we would have many ideas from years and years ago that are very very wrong indeed. I understand what you are saying, But i disagree with you saying " Until you understand and accept that your observations will be treated much as they deserve to be." I should not have to accept anything and it is scientific nature to question things. However if your referring to accepting your definition of theory then yes, I was wrong,which i have apologized for and you are correct. And i would say that FACT trumps theory any day. Your probably right about evolution theory, It is most likely to be correct on the most part if anything is incorrect. That is ironic actually. Thank you, i would be very closed minded just to dismiss what he said , I don't agree with that at all and it gets people nowhere.

Well i take that back. I apologize i obviously had that wrong. But maybe you knew what i was getting at? theory's have been disproved many times. and in order to be a theory they must have been repeatedly tested with experiments. But even after that, they are disproved, So technically a theory could be wrong, Without a doubt. but i completely agree i used that out of context.

Random changes, would that mean technically anything could happen? for example. A triceratops could have grown its horns just for the sake of it? I know that in that example it is not the case and it's probably a very bad example. but basically any animal could develop in a certain way randomly? without effect from the ecosystem , Climate or predators? That is only speculation technically. Many people believe otherwise and there are arguments to support both sides. We as humans can really only speculate, You cannot say your reasoning is correct without a doubt because we cant ever know exactly why animals develop the way we do. We can speculate and make educated guesses at most. Some which are very reasonable and could well be the correct reason but you cannot say that is correct.

I don't think it is nonsensical at all. In fact who is to say that it couldn't happen. What part of what i suggested is nonsensical actually? could you please quote a specific sentence or paragraph please. I was asking if it could happen and stating what i thought might be a possibility. I dont recall stating i was correct at any point. though instead of dismissing what you say i shall look up evolutionary theory and study it some more to gain a better of understanding. though may i just point out that what i said might be correct. It is called evolutionary THEORY for a reason. While im not trying to disprove darwin or anybody else, It still is only a theory, While it may be thought of by many a lot smarter than myself as correct it could still be wrong and you would be closed minded to dismiss what i say as "nonsensical" because it dosen't fall in line with what you currently believe.

How are we? there was one program which highlighted how far we have come in that particular field. It's hardly the fact that we are going to measure our overall progress by the size of explosions. However, The more advanced we get, The bigger explosions we can create with lesser and lesser amounts of material. So i guess you could measure progress in that field by that.

Im sorry what do you mean by "an invisible pre existing language" ? They are some nice quotes.

I wasn't saying they would release them into the wild, I was saying that inevitably they would end up there in some way or another There is a million possibilities. As for them having to be a significant number to evolve, What about what i said about in order to bring a species back, you must have some sort of it's DNA. So when they bring back dinosaur "x" it could already be a short while away from evolving and when we bring it back, It's genes are only a generation or 2 away from change. A change that that dinosaur's family were going to make millions of years ago before they were wiped out.

I like that. Im going to read some of his work, It sounds fascinating. Very interesting and some nice proverbs that give you some peace of mind knowing that many before you have thought of this as well. But may i ask where in the temples of Luxor these were found? Is there any pictures of the meanings? Who translated them? And what proof is there they are not just written from anywhere. I +1'd you. That is the way to live i reckon. Be a nice person but more importantly be respectful of others and their possessions And hopefully you will be treated the same way. yes it is funny how once you start looking for these things you see people doing them everywhere, I read this and then went to my local shopping center for some household items and saw people doing little things everywhere. All the best to you mate

I actually wasn't saying that "changes" to a species due to evolution is a sign of success. I was merely saying that in my own personal opinion Dinosaurs adapted more to change due to various reasons, And cockroaches have not. Although true, There is no need for cockroaches to develop any defenses as they are not threatened at current. I was not "expecting" anything. My original post was purely about the dinosaurs and being able to re-create them and what implications this might have on us as the dominant species on earth. "big changes" also occur for many reasons, Not just the species not doing well. Such as being the bottom of the food chain for too long,environmental changes, man made disasters ,being hunted by other species too often even if they are nowhere near extinction. I can already tell that this is going to turn into a cockroaches Vs. dinosaurs debate Classic science forums. Let's try and keep it as on topic as possible. Also if we did decide to re-create giant reptiles, The ecosystem would change, No doubt about it. For all we know we could be making a catastrophic mistake. Dinosaurs could develop in the next hundred thousand years if we did manage it, And develop harder skins and weapons of their own etc. Other dinosaurs would evolve from these and produce different species because there are some around already. If you look at certain species of stingray they have developed "armor" made of the same type of bone as sharks teeth. There is also a scorpion that can survive in up to -30 Degrees. Have a look in this years Guinness world records. There are newly discovered animals and sea life. They are always finding new sea creatures that they hadn't previously known existed. Now were they in our waters for million of years and we didn't know? or did they evolve from something else recently and that's why we are just finding them now. Is everything evolved from something else? probably in some way Yes. But Something had to be the first.How did we get so many different types of creatures from some starting point? It truly is amazing. You could get some new form of insect tomorrow that has not been threatened by extinction in anyway, But because it's species have been around for thousands and thousand maybe even millions of years it is just evolving now, And we get a new creature that we previously did not know about. If we re-created dinosaurs, we would be using the DNA of creatures from millions of years ago who were a certain distance down the evolution line already at the point of extinction. We could bring back a T-rex for example, but what we don't know is that the T-rex had been around for a couple of million years in the Cretaceous and was due to evolve before the dinosaurs were wiped out. Now because we are evolving them from that T-rex's DNA, You could have a T-rex that lays eggs and it would be a new type of Dinosaur or type of T-rex. We would be basically kick starting them off from the position they were in millions of years ago. So it would be plausible if we managed to re-create them that it may only take thousand of years for them to evolve again, even though they were under no threat.

So i was thinking, Lets say for example, Somebody believes in karma. They think of the bad things they have done, they start to focus on the bad things that happen to them and attribute it to having bad karma because of whatever they did. Then they might either start trying to live a certain way to avoid "bad karma" or become obsessive about it and constantly live their life in a way which they normally would not, Would it become like a penance maybe? Sort of like "oh i got attacked in the street, That's what i get for ....." What about religion? People might live a certain way to avoid afterlife consequences or in order to gain entry to "heaven" etc. Im not specifically relating to karma or religion, It just seemed like a good example of the point i was trying to make. You could attribute this to believing in anything. do you think people's life's are put on a different course because of believing in something? Would you be a different person if you believed in different things? The things you think are obvious, The things you could not imagine living without thinking they were right, or true.

Some very interesting responses, Thanks everyone for weighing in. By the way i looked it up, There are different types of cockroaches, So somewhere down the line they must have had to change for some reason. Albeit due to weather, building codes, Invasive species as mentioned by zapatos. Do you really think that fi humans managed to recreate a dinosaur they would stop at a couple? i dont. I reckon we would have a new species that would in some way or another end up in the wild. escape, Insects feeding on the dinosaurs could carry their blood, Birds could steal their eggs and drop them etc. (similar to how some fish end up in waters that are unusual.) The environment is crucial to birth, But if we were to recreate it then it would be under different circumstances and we may have a slightly different dinosaur but we wouldn't know. the difference. It would be a scientific achievement, But it could also prove disastrous.

1. Yes i agree, Reviving was the wrong term I meant recreate. Ti seems perfectly possible due to the things in that article i posted the link to in the OP. If you do some looking into things he mentions you'l see it most likely could be done in the next 50 years, 2. I did not say insects would come back with them. I was saying if we did recreate them then a few hundred or even thousand years down the line , Once they are again part of our ecosystem and food chain. Insects would evolve due to them being alive. and my question was, What effects could this have on our ecosystem as these insects were already extinct. 3. I would argue dinosaurs were much greater. They adapted to cope with their environments more than any mammal or reptile ever has apart from maybe humans. I dont see cockroaches growing bone like defenses to ward of predators etc. But in all fairness cockroaches have been pretty successful as well but they have not changed or evolved if you will much. Unlike the dinosaurs. Birds come from dinosaurs and a lot of our animals that are alive today do as well. What has evolved from cockroaches? In many ways dinosaurs trump cockroaches. they just died out due to a catastrophic incident.

And also im not sure if it can be asserted it would be a bad thing for the ecosystem either. Who are we to question new species of animals? For all we know that spider will be needed in the next hundred years for some purpose (in the food chain/ecosystem ) and that's why it has just now developed.

where do you read all their research papers may i ask? I have been trying to find quite a few different ones and always seem to get one or the other. Is there a specific website that they update with their papers? sorry if the question sounds daft.

Im sorry i must have been misinformed. while relativity has been confirmed, Was there not some parts Of einstein's theory itself that have now been dis proven, Or even "updated" if you will? I remember reading somewhere a while back that while it may be very hard for us to propel a craft through space at the speed of light. There may be a way of bending or moving space around the craft. Now this sounds like a load of rubbish. But i do significantly remember reading some details in the book or article that sounded quite if not very plausible, And had a good reputation in the scientific community. This wasn't meant as a post to say , We can build a machine that bends space around us. Not in any way. I cant quite put my finger on the details i really wish i could remember them all; If anybody has heard of anything similar before or knows of the book im talking about please elaborate for me and stop me sounding like a fool. I wouldn't usually post about something if i didn't have information or facts to back it up, but i really cant remember the details and im hoping somebody else out there will have read them somewhere.

Could ou provide me with more information on your friends background regarding "his thoughts being read" Does he think they use some kind of device/machine? Or does he think that people can "see" his thoughts. If it was anything to do with the government and they actually could do this, Do you think they would be stupid enough to say his thoughts aloud in front of him, Or are they doing that just to mess with him. It's crap in my opinion, Id tell him to get looked at for schizophrenia. Ask him if he thinks shows on the TV are sometimes aimed at him or meant for him to see.

I remember thinking this when i was a kid, When does space end, Or where does it end? I mean surely there has to be something else, Somewhere. It cant just go on forever and be infinite, It dosen't make sense to me. Of course you would drift in and out of atmospheres and into different galaxies. Do you think it's possible we are some kind of bacteria and eventually you would get to a point in space if you just kept going straight where we were in another world, almost like We are so miniscule, And we are imagining things on too large a scale. Hard to explain but i hope you get my point. it is probably a question we will be unable to answer for thousands of years, if that..

Well if the universe is expanding, Or was at some point, Then parts of it that were created first must be older.

I have said it before and i will say it again, We should Never stop looking into new technologies and materials. that is a catastrophic failure. While i see your point about the world maybe being cleaner, Dropping space program budgets is nonsensical. when albert einstein went to work in the patent office he was told by the manager , "everything that can be invented already has been" Imagine we had stopped there as society. The dinosaurs ruled the world for millions of years, We have done so much more in the much smaller amount of time we have been here. Think where we were 50 years ago. This forum would be considered major technology. We have come so far, and now the rate at which we can learn by using things we have invented like the internet etc is dramatically increased. Where do you think wel be in 2063?

"Sorry, but that's not how evolution works. We're not moving towards some kind of ideal, or "finished product". If there was enough selective pressure, we'd change over time to adapt, even if it meant losing some of what we think makes us humans. It's not a process of scalar variables, it's a process of continuous functions." sorry i think i may not have explained it well and as a result you may have misinterpreted. I did not mean we were heading towards some kind of "ideal" i was sort of edging towards the When will we stop adapting. I agree about what you say about selective pressure, and as far as that goes humans have been the dominant power on the planet for many thousands of years so there isn't much of it,.However i have no doubt that at some point there will be circumstances that may force the human race to "adapt" again. Maybe even if we possibly managed to ever travel to other planets to terraform or build etc, conditions on those planets may cause the people there to change over time, Creating a completely different type of human. Yes it is terrible the things that happen because of "politics". what thread was that, do you remember?, It sounds quite interesting i would enjoy reading it. There was a program on BBC Channel 4 tonight called Explosions, How we shook the world. And while it relates to explosives, it shows you the evolution, From black powder, To charged explosives,which were too unstable to use or manufacture properly, to dynamite, created by the man who left his money to create a charity that awards prizes for excellence in many fields.The nobel prize. It was also the first plastic explosive. And then when hey found material that gave off energy. uranium. a few kilograms of it was enough to make an explosion the size of a few hundred tons of TNT. Most of it you'l probably know already, but it is a nice little interesting hour's worth of insight into history and how far we have come in the last couple of hundred years. Thanks for your opinion, It is truly valued. I enjoy reading a few of your posts regularly =) Just found this old post i started, where i was talking about having the designs and papers 10+ years ago but just not being able to build the technology. In this case a warp drive. http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/72038-warp-speed-in-our-lifetime-possible/

It's getting very close to finding something now, Who knows what we will find but it is a very exciting time. Im keen to see what happens

Wow, Well your ideas sound fascinating, But could you maybe explain the process you are talking about in the pyramids a bit plainer? Look if you have things to say, then this is the place to tell them, There are plenty of people on here that would find your post and Authenticate it. But to be honest saying things like " i can secure the uranium from a mine i know about so that is not an issue " And "they include antigravity technology opening rifts in timespace our dreams i have realised can be real" Make you sound like a bit of a troll. Also "oh man, if i only had financial means i could do much" "i just have no means to carry out my ideas most people steal them and get rich and i stay in the gutter" - what designs, Why not tell us what it is you invented? "i am poor and have no means," every post or even more than once in a post, Your talking about how you need money to fund your ideas, Your not asking for it, But it sounds like your angling for it. lay out your idea as simply as you can, it does not need to be an amazing literary read, Just try your best. what things did you invent that people stole? Post these videos of things you keep saying happened that you will post videos of. Was there pictures of this engine running on air your friend had? Of it's working design, or maybe even a video? Sorry if this sounds rude at all, but it could well be 2013's version of the nigerian prince. Except it'l be the Doc and the dolorian scam :L "I need money to fund time travel"