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Posts posted by Prometheus

  1. 5 hours ago, studiot said:

    Firstly consider some entity in its surroundings, environment or universe as in Fig 1

    Your figure of a being and an environment reminds me of Markov Blankets, which relate a set of internal and external states as conditionally independent from each other. In this framework, i think the distinctions between intelligence, consciousness and self-awareness are on a continuum and so not qualitatively different - unless there is some kind of 'phase transition' when markov blankets are embedded in one another to a sufficient extent. (The free energy principle from which this model is derived draws heavily from physics so might be of interest to you).

  2. On 9/13/2023 at 8:07 PM, Mgellis said:

    What are your thoughts on this?  Thanks.

    You might be interested in the work of Michael Levin who, as i understand it, talks about layers of computation in organisms - organelles performing computations which in concert with other organelles perform computations at a cellular level and similarly up through tissues, organs, individuals and societies.

  3. It does seem domain specific. In medicine, blinded trials have been assessed by panels of physicians to give comparable or better answers to medical questions than physicians. I couldn't find equivalent papers for maths but there are papers assessing it in isolation. It makes sense that LLMs would struggle more with maths than medicine as the former is more abstract and less talked about  while medicine is more embodied in our language and a more common topic of conversation. If you can find a copy of Galactica you might find it more useful as its training included LaTeX equations, and it's also designed to give intermediary steps in its workings. 

  4. 24 minutes ago, Genady said:

    So, the machine learning of (in this case) language is based on matching verbal outputs of the function and the target verbal outputs. I don't think this is similar to how humans learn language. I don't think we learn by trying to match our verbal outputs to supplied verbal targets.

    There's an additional step, called tokenisation, in which words and punctuation are broken down in 'tokens', which can be roughly thought of as components of words. I imagine this makes it even less like how humans learn language.

  5. 9 hours ago, CharonY said:

    Data is data, it is only false or correct relative to a given context. Issues can arise on the collection level (are we measuring the correct variable for what we want to do?), as well as the selection level (which data set do we think should be added or omitted).

    With models such as Chat-GPT there is another potential source of bias (and for mitigating bias). People have already mentioned that the model is selecting from a distribution of possible tokens. That is what the base GPT model does, but this process is then steered via reinforcement learning with human feedback. There are several ways to do this but essentially a human is shown various outputs of the model, and then they score or rank the outputs ,which go back into the objective function. The reinforcement during this process could steer the model either towards bias or away from it. 

    This is one argument proponents of open source models use: we don't know, and may never know, the reinforcement regimen of Chat-GPT. Open source communities are more transparent regarding what guidelines were used and who performed RL. 

    6 hours ago, Markus Hanke said:

    I have, however, noticed that you can point it out to the system if an answer is wrong, and it seems to be learning from such corrections.

    Makes me consider what we mean by learning. I wouldn't have considered this example learning, because the model weights have not updated due to this interaction. What has happened is that the model is using the context of the previous answers it has give. Essentially asking the model to generate the most likely outputs, given that the inputs already include wrong attempted answers. The default is 2048 tokens, with a current (and rapidly increasing) max of 4096.

    I would put this in the domain of prompt engineering rather than learning, as it's up to the human to steer the model to the right answer. But maybe it is a type of learning?

  6. On 4/30/2023 at 11:01 PM, mathematic said:

    Posed the following and got no answer:

    Geometry problem:  Semi-circle inside triangle:  Triangle with known length sides a, b, c where a is the longest.  Place inside the triangle a semi-circle with diameter on side a. What is radius of largest possible semi-circle in terms of side lengths?  Position of diameter center along a?


    On 5/1/2023 at 3:37 AM, Sensei said:

    He objected to the title of this thread i.e. "How does ChatGPT work?" giving an example that it does not work i.e. gives wrong answers..


    The foundation models of chat-GPT aren't trying to be factual.

    A common use of chat-GPT is for science fiction writers - they will at times want accurate science and maths and at other times want speculative, or simply 'wrong', science and maths in service of a story. Which you want will determine what you consider a 'right' or good answer. 

    Prompt engineering is the skill of giving inputs to a model such you get the type of answers you want, i.e. learning to steer the model. A badly driven car still works.

    Or wait for the above mentioned Wolfram Alpha API which will probably make steering towards factually correct maths easier.


    BTW, question for the thread, are we talking about chat-GPT specifically, LLMs or just potential AGI in general? - they all seem to get conflated at different points of the thread.

  7. More attention should be spent on Galactica which is specifically trained on scientific literature. Even though it is a smaller model trained on a smaller corpus, that data (i.e. scientific literature) is much higher quality, which results in much improved outputs for scientific ends. They also incorporated a 'working memory token' to help the model work through intermediate steps to its outputs - i.e. showing your working. Would love to use this for literature reviews, there's just way too much in most domains for any human to get through.

  8. Has anyone tried repeating the same question multiple times? If chatGPT works in a similar manner to GPT3 it's sampling from a distribution of possible tokens (not quite letters/punctuation) at every token. There's also a parameter, T, which allows the model to preferentially sample from the tails to give less likely answers.

  9. 3 hours ago, thewowsignal said:

    Do you think your capabilities are as big as the Universe?

    No, but our aspirations should be as big as the universe.

    The LHC costs roughly $4.5 billion a year. The global GDP is $85 trillion/year. The LHC represents 0.00005% of humanities annual wealth, or 0.0003% of the EU's annual GDP. A small price to pay to push at the borders of our ignorance. 

  10. 10 hours ago, moreno7798 said:

    As stated by Blake Lemoine, he was not having a conversation with just the text chatbot, he was accessing the system for generating chatbots, which by his words is a system that processes all of google's data acquisition assets including vision, audio, language and all of the internet data assets available to google. What do you make of Blake Lemoine? 

    If he was accessing other 'processes' then he was not dealing with Lamda. 

    If he has been giving information out about Google's inner workings I'm not surprised he had to leave, I'm sure he violated many agreements he made when signing up with them. But given what he believed about the AI, he did the right thing. I don't know anything more about him than that. 

  11. 9 hours ago, moreno7798 said:

    It begs the question; Is a person that is born blind and paralized without sense of touch from the neck down not trained on words? And would that desqualify them from being sentience?

    It's not an analogous situation for (at least) 2 reasons.

    Someone without any senses other than auditory are still not only 'trained' on words, as words only form part of our auditory experience. Nor does Lambda have any auditory inputs, including words. The text is fed into the model as tokens (not quite the same as words, but close).

    The human brain/body is a system known, in the most intimate sense, to produce consciousness. Hence, we are readily willing to extend the notion of consciousness to other people, notwithstanding edge cases such as brain-stem death.

    I suspect a human brought up truly only on a single sensory type would not develop far past birth (remembering the 5 senses model was put forward by Aristotle and far under-estimates the true number).

  12. On 7/30/2022 at 4:10 PM, moreno7798 said:

    That appears to be incorrect. Blake Lemoine has stated that LaMDA is NOT just a test based chatbot, it is trained on the entirety of google's data acquisition assets. Watch the video below:

    If you skip the click bait videos and go to the actual publication (currently available in pre-print) you'll see exactly what lamda has been trained on: 1.56 trillion words. Just text, 90% of it English.


    On 7/25/2022 at 1:36 PM, dimreepr said:

    Good point, what level of comunication, with our universe, is required for sentience to emerge? 

    And what level of communication is required for us to recognise a fellow sentient?

    Level 17 and level 32.

  13. On 7/18/2022 at 1:52 PM, dimreepr said:

    Indeed, how would we know?

    The entire universe exposed to LaMDA is text. Is doesn't even have pictures to associate to those words, and has no sensory inputs . By claiming LaMDA, or any similar language model, has consciousness, is to claim that language alone is a sufficient condition for consciousness.  Investigating the truth of that implicit claim gives us another avenue to explore.

  14. On 7/14/2022 at 8:44 PM, moreno7798 said:

    What do you guys think is happening with LaMDA?

    LaMDA is a language model designed for customer interaction. The google employee was a prompt engineer tasked with fine-tuning the model to be suitable for these interactions, because out of the box and unguided it could drift towards anything in its training corpus (i.g. it could favour language seen in erotica novels, which may not be what google want - depending on exactly what they're selling).

    Part of its training corpus would have included sci-fi books, some of which would include our imagined interactions with AI. It seems the engineer steered the AI towards these tendencies by asking leading questions. 

  15. On 5/13/2022 at 1:21 PM, Genady said:

    I read this news and couldn't understand what was so astonishing, what did they expect, what new knowledge have they obtained...

    It was unknown whether the plants would germinate at all - the fact they did tells us that regolith did not interfere with the hormones necessary for this process. The plant they chose was the first one to have its genome sequenced, allowing them to look into the transcriptome to identify epigenetic changes due to the regolith, particularly what stress responses were triggered.

    They also compared regolith from 3 different lunar sites, allowing them to identify differences in morphology, transcriptomes etc between sites.

    Full paper here: https://www.nature.com/articles/s42003-022-03334-8

  16. Some people have tried to develop methods of measuring consciousness in the most general sense. I think the most developed idea is integrated information theory put forward by a neurologist in 2004. It measures how integrated various systems in a whole are. Even if you accept this as a reasonable measure, to actually apply the test all possible combinations of connectivity are sought, so to 'measure' the consciousness of a worm with 300 synapses would currently take 10^9 years.

  17. 10 hours ago, Genady said:

    I don't think that a substrate matters in principle, although it might matter for implementation. I think intelligence can be artificial. But I think that we are nowhere near it, and that current AI with its current machine learning engine does not bring us any closer to it.

    So a matter of complexity? Fair enough. Thanks for answering so clearly - i ask this question a lot, not just here, and rarely get such a clear answer.


    10 hours ago, Genady said:

    But I think that we are nowhere near it, and that current AI with its current machine learning engine does not bring us any closer to it.

    Not any closer?

    There are some in the community who believe that current DNNs will be enough - it's just a matter of having a large enough network and suitable training regime. Yann Lecun is probably the most famous, the guy who invented CNNs.

    Then there are many who believe that symbolic representations need to be engineered directly into AI systems. Gary Marcus is probably the biggest advocate for this.

    Here's a 2 hour debate between them:


    There are a number of neuroscientists using AI as a model of the brain. There are some interesting papers that argue what some networks are doing is at least correlated with certain visual centres of the brain - this interview with a neuroscientist details some of that research - around 30 mins in, although the whole interview might be of interest to you:


    An interesting decision by Tesla was to use vision only based inputs - as opposed to competitors who use multi-modal inputs and combine visual with lidar and other data. Tesla did this because their series of networks were getting confused as the data streams sometimes gave apparently contradictory inputs - analogous to when humans get dizzy when their inner tells them one thing about motion and the eyes another thing.

    Things like that make me believe that current architecture are capturing some facets of whatever is going on in the brain, even if its still missing alot, so i think they do bring us closer.

  18. 2 minutes ago, studiot said:

    Pure guesswork, no better than the "we will have fusion within 20 years" guess of the 1950s.

    Surely we are talking about now  ?

    If you're going to ask someone to guess when fusion is going be reality, you'd still give more credence to engineers and physicists guess than some random people on the internet wouldn't you?

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