Superfusion

IF is the most important word you used in that post but I have to admit you are being honest, there is no proof of god, you have to have faith but that is just sugar coated horse feathers, why is your god real and Allah is not? Why is your god real and Krishna is not? Seriously, you might be honest in that you have to have faith but why faith in your god? But you need to demonstrate why god cannot be a monster, I mean he demanded genocide, rape, child molestation, slavery, the list of monstrous deeds either demanded by him or allowed by him go on and on, just saying he is above those concerns is a cop out and a man who is honest will admit that...

These are worldly disasters, They happen, Sometimes because of the horrible choices other people choose to make, And sometimes they must happen to cause something very decisive to happen. In such disasters you search for God and Jesus to help comfort you and show you the way. If you do not allow him into your life he will not come into it. As i said before he allows you to do whatever you want on HIS world. So if you don't invite him in the door he wont come in, He isn't going to bust the door down and make you listen or do things. But if you let him he will show you the way, If you are reluctant or doing so half heartedly it will not work. And as to why you should choose christianity over anything else from the outside? The only one that i can legitmately give you is the comfirmed historical character that claimed this religion his own and lived by it ran with it preached it and suffered a horrible death on a cross to save us all. You can look into the resurrection all you want but the only "solid" proof for you guys is his body missing. Which many claims can be made about why from any atheist. And even if for some reason you go into Islam you will still see Jesus as one of the greatest prophets and people in their history. When Mohammed acends to Heaven that is the last person he meets on the way there. Along a trail of prophets.

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Moderator Note

Superfusion, we don't take kindly to personal comments here. Calling someone a fool goes against our rules and really doesn't do much for your whole argument. If you want to point out the flaws, etc., of an idea, then you may do so without also ridiculing the person making them.

Very well, After posting the comment i did realize that i was kinda like him once and come up with some pretty wild theories. Very sorry aristocrat and iodine. But as to why i believe these flaws i still hold my ground.

Cap'n, please separate this out into a new thread, i would like to nail this eel to a tree or be nailed which ever happens.

 

To Superfusion, to honestly say this you first have to demonstrate why your god is the only god, unless you do this then every other god is just as real as yours as long as someone has faith they exist...

*sigh*

The only way you can see is if you try it yourself. But you have to have solid proof and that will never be generated. But you are blinded by your consistently worldly view on the subject. I can see just from what you told me that you weren't taught christianity correctly. Its been seriously turned and tuned and now for some reason us humans can predict who's gonna go to hell and who's not. Not a choice for us down here to make. You are supposed to disagree with homosexuality and transgender behavior. But not hate the people that practice it.. Or dislike them.. It applys in any case, Your job as a christian is to try and stretch as far to Jesus Christ image as possible. You do not have to evangalize but it is a service to others if you do. Though God is perfectly fine with your service to him personally by longing for a deep relationship with him.

You said that if half of them are true he is a monster. Okay, First i will AGAIN state that if he is God it is impossible for him to possibly be a monster. Only us can be monsters. He does everything for a specific reason.

Anyway i must go and i will continue this arguement tommorow.

No one can possibly imagine how badly i would love just once for one of these... theists... to actually back up their horse feathers, multilevel marketing schemers are more honest... want to go for an airplane ride, a ticket only costs you $1000 dollars and then you sell tickets to others for $1000 dollars and they sell tickets for $1000 the first on board will make a killing....

 

You will never get solid physical proof of the existence of God in all likelyhood. That again is why it is called faith. To possibly understand it you have to drop your scientific way of thinking that gets you through life in the world. Because this is not in this world, Which is emphasized so much in the bible the difference between worldly and "heavenly" or anything thats not worldly. You arent in the same place. Therefore the same way of thinking will not work.

Okay if you want to have the discussion about proof of gods existence we can start that. First remember its called faith for a reason. Not just to sound like a good thing that people should do.

And he is not malevolent, He wants to test your will to give up evil acts of evil and if you will come to him and Jesus Christ for help in doing so. If you do not do so that is attributed to you, Not Gods will to see you do evil. Everything good is not attributed to god and everything bad is not attributed to the devil. Most things in life are attributed to God. But he does them for a good reason and thats part of why you have to have faith.

Yes i know how much of the scriptures that has been uncovered is true... 0... nada... none, nothing.... Do you really think that because i am an atheist i have never read scripture? That I have never attended a church? How condescending, I was raised fundamentalist Christian, raised to quake in fear of doubting anything the preacher said... I have read the bible and quite a bit of other holy books, it's all made up horse feathers, if you know differently please feel free to show some true scriptures that could not have been known by humans and had to come from god... can't do it? God got your tongue? Oh i have to believe before i can understand, horse feathers, I once believed, but I made the mistake of really reading the bible and I realized i was being asked to worship a psychopathic monster and that absolutely none of it was true in any way shape or form, come on give those true scriptures.... horse feathers...

Hmm... It appears that you were not raised correctly in christianity. Which is common because so many people misinturpret it within the religion itself. Your reason for abiding by it should not be fear of hell. But rather love and obedience to your lord god and respect for the sacrafice Jesus Christ made on the cross to save you. Doubts are natural, And its ashamed if you were taught anything other than that. If you were told that if you ever doubted a single thing the scriptures tell you then you will go to hell then you were falsely informed. The doubt is natural.. Remember? Human beings are imperfect, we make mistakes and we are wonderous creatures. Doubts are only natural the key is to not let them bring you down and out of your belief. This persecution was predicted in the book of revelations and the book before that. Did you know that? And as for the scriptures there are numerous ones. The bible is the most reliable piece of history we have but its no good when people deny whats inside it. Many events of the bible previously belived to be untrue have been archeologically discovered to have actually happened. All the mega miracles? No. Because would be last to be revealed and it in part kills your reason to have faith. And you did not live in christianity correctly which means any credible info you have from being within christianity is nonexistant. And before a conversation starts about why you were taught that way yes the church is completely corrupted and incorrect. You have to interpret and feel the scriptures for yourself along with everything else you know about it.

I have no problem with god but his fan club is annoying as hell....

 

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.

Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.

Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?

Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

 

- Epicurus [341–270 B.C.]

First i would like to clairify that i am not a "fan". Thats what you call the hippocrits that walk around declaring themselves christians but do nothing to show it. And to adress that. Again, You are adressing him in the context as if he can do evil or any wrong. Again he is god and he cannot do you or anyone/anything wrong. He is both and able and willing but he allows it to happen because he is willing to let you make your own decisions. You prove that you care enough for him to sacrafice evil in the name of righteousness.

Whoa there, backup. That's a positive assertion. Please provide supporting evidence.

I am speaking in the direction of the creator of the thread, In the true assumption that a god is real and i am simply replying to what he said.

Yes i have seen it. Interesting deep movie.

Okay Mike Infinity you may never get your point across to him, Minds so set on science only need everything explained with mathematics and/or scientific method otherwise they either do not understand or believe/claim that it is completely irrational.

*set on science only understand anything explained

[/Edit]

Okay first Xittenn I do disagree with your decision. But i do not hate you, I will not treat you differently, And i am not out for an arguement. I believe that you should have the right to make your own decisions and do whatever you would like as long as it does not cause physical pain to another person. (Even though i do believe people should watch their actions because it can cause emotional pain or make them mentally ill if it really affects them in a negative way.) It is overall your choice and i have no problem with you having the ability to do so. I just do not agree with transgender behavior, Largely because it is against what i believe but the reason why i believe that is the long part. I am just another to let you know that you are socially exepted on my terms. I just hope you did not make the decision at an age so young.

Interesting arguement please update me on the brush over basics so i can take a side

Says who? Countless generations in which the most adaptable are more likely to survive seems pretty convincing to me.

Very rarely. There is precious little corroborative evidence for the new testament stories, let alone those of the old testament.

No. I go to my partner, my family and my friends. I try to lose the feeling of despondency and start doing something to make my situation better - I do not, and I think this is common with all atheist, I do not pray

 

But this would be a strawman - because we don't "come back to God" in extremis. Praying to God in a crisis would make as much sense to me as hoping that Superman would come by and make it all right, or thinking that if I shut my eyes it will all go away. Not having God as a first and last resort is immensely liberating - without a supernatural fallback position everything is easier to deal with because you know you can.

 

 

http://richarddawkin...d-of-you-to-ask

 

The indomitable Hitchins, even when mortally ill with oesophageal cancer, sums up my feelings on deathbed conversions and those seeking to promote them - "Well fuck that! is what I say - And will say if it is my last breath"

But do you really know how much of the scriptures are uncovered as true? You have only experienced the atheist side and just sit and deny it because you have no interest. So you go with what most of pop culture would tell you. (Which you may consider christian but its "uncool" to openly show love for your religion.) I on the other hand have experienced a little bit of both. But of course for the most part christianity. You dont understand because you likely havent actually lived in it. And just because you call yourself a christian and belive that there is a god above does not mean that you have experienced true christianity so please dont bring that arguement.

In the end its pretty much impossible to bring someone rooted in the other side of the arguement to your language. You may know that Jesus Christ died on the cross and it was a huge sacrafice and another may adore him for that which is not your case. But it cannot be translated correctly if you dont know the language.

Justification? An overwhelming amount of things and one of them being that the world is simply to perfectly created and balanced to be crafted by nothing. And another that the scriptures in the bible that people doubt and reject are discovered to be true one at a time. They say this didnt happen and its just a made up fairytale or story. And they find either circumstantial evidence that it did happen or flat out physical evidence that it happened. And people continue to doubt it. Then we find it happened. Even when we are in serious distress and one is atheist what do they do? They pray don't they? You might say it is just in the pressure of the moment but why do they do it in the pressure of the moment? Then you might say that it was just fast and they did it because of that, And i would ask why do they do that? And you would continue to dig deep and figure out that it was there from the beggining.

God has the following duties:

 

1. Heal all existing SDD [suffering, Destruction, and Death]

 

2. Prevent any future SDD

 

Since none of the above happens, either God is being a jerk and not doing his job OR he simply doesn't exist.

 

I was once watching an Adam & Eve cartoon. The serpant lures the couple into a tree to eat a forbidden fruit. They do exactly that. God then punished the couple because they could've resisted. God also punished the serpant [which I don't understand]. Adam & Eve chose, out of their own free will to give into temptation -- the couple then experience the negative results of their actions.

 

I completely understand why God punished Adam & Eve. They chose to do wrong, so they were punished. However, I don't AT ALL understand why God punished the serpant. The serpant did not have any free will. The serpant was under complete control of God. God made the serpant do wrong and then punished the serpant. God could've prevented the serpant from tempting the couple, but God chose not to. God made the serpant do wrong, then he punished it. I think it would have be more logical for God to have prevent the serpant from luring the couple rather than allowing the crime to happen and then punishing the serpant after the fact. This causes me to view God as troublemaker who like to punish others for his own actions.

 

Also, I have no choice but to believe that since God has all power, he most likely misuses it for his own sick pleasure -- just like the kings/queens of human history did.

 

This is why I have such a hard time showing any respect for God. After all, I believe in justice. I hate -- with a passion -- any cold-hearted entity who knowingly/willingly misuses his/her/its power just for the fun of it.

 

God is no better than a schoolyard bully or a dominant prison inmate who gains cold-hearted pleasure and dark humor from victimizing the weaker.

 

If God exists, then all physically-existing entities are his helpless victims. If God does not exist, he is simply a figment of my imagination who I choose to hold responsible for any SDD experienced in physical reality.

 

When good happens, God still exists but the good happens because God fails in making or allowing bad to happen. In this case, I verbally tease-God in a puerile manner and chant in a ring-around-the-rosy tune, "ha ha God, I won you, I won you"

 

If something bad happens and it's not the fault of a human, then it's God's fault. In this case, I curse God with extremely obscene language such as the 4-letter-F-word.

 

In any case, I believe God is the ultimate oppressor. I try to test his lack-of-physical-existence by insulting him as much as possible, whenever he pisses me off. God does exist but he is free from the restrictions of the laws of physics [such as my most hated 2nd-law-of-thermodynamics]. I feel jealous of him, that he is capable of overriding physical limitations while the physical universes are oppressed by them.

 

When I'm in a bad mood, I believe that God and his angels are on opposite terms. The angels want to end SDD but God [being the cruel cold-heart he is] doesn't let them. When any angel tries to eliminate SDD, God punishes that angel.

 

I'm on the angels' side and against God.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of the devil but I'd take a gazillion devils over one God. The devil and God are both evil but God is more powerful than the devil, so I hate God much more than I hate the devil. If you are physically-invincible and have unlimited power, you should use it to end SDD -- if you don't then you are an evil sadist.

 

If a human knowingly and willingly does bad deeds, God is not at fault. On the other hand, if I bite my tongue while eating, it IS God's fault and I say "f*** God". If I can't blame a person, I blame God.

Okay first its not Gods job to prevent SDD or heal them. We are his creation.. He created the world, I mean he is god! How can he possibly do wrong? He cant. Everything he does it perfection. Everything he does has a good reason. And we are here to prove that we can maintain faith in our God and our savior Jesus Christ. So far it is proving that we cannot do so. But hope still lingers for humanity, Don't rant about god not being bound by the laws of physics because he created them. God has no job, He cant slack. He is God.. Whatever he does is right, And anyone who thinks that he has wronged you is wrong. God has not forsaken you, You have forsaken God. I guess because of the lack of education about everything god expresses in his beautiful piece of literature and poetry based on real history called the bible.

I didnt mean to post it twice i was just trying to edit peace to piece of literature called the bible

What do I mean by "your god."? I mean your God is the God of Abraham and to tell you the truth I don't like him, from what I've read of him. I mean; I think Eve was right to choose smarts in the garden. I would have advised her to do exactly the same. When faced with eating 'the fruit of the tree of knowledge,' she accepted the challenge, and persuadedr Adam to do the same. Of course 'your god' freaked and kicked them out of the garden - for getting smart - against your god's wishes.

 

No, I don't think much of your god. My God is Jesus and his heavenly Father.

 

What do you mean you think little of him? What do you mean he is imperfect? You fool he is god. He can do no wrong, He cant be imperfect for he is god. Perfect is whatever he wants it to be. Whatever he does is right. If he destroys everything that ever existed it is perfect. Its god...

And as of Jesus. He died on the cross pleading to god, And to father as well in his last words.. Do not say that their are two because it is clearly stated that their is ONE All mighty god. Jesus made many references to old testament as HIS own god being the same one. This is monotheism, This is not polytheism. Do not try and ruin the glory jesus brought to god and do not try and smierre him, Especially if you refer to him AS god because he is what made us all. And what made everything. How can you think little of such? It is impossible for him to be wrong.

Dont know exactly what the reference thing is but i will rate on how bad they are.

1. /2/

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In GR it isn't a force, but you don't seem to be necessarily making that kind of distinction, and are still speaking in a Newtonian sense.

 

If I hold a ball against a compressed spring, and then let go, the spring acts instantly — there is no delay. If I hold a charged particle in an electric field and then let go, the field acts instantly — there is no delay. If I remove the source of that electric field, the charged particle will not notice instantly — the change propagates at c. Yet these are still forces.

 

I think that "natural motion" is an artificial distinction. There is no such thing as unnatural motion. A force is anything that tends to cause an acceleration. Redefining that and you break Newton's laws.

Agreed, As i said it isn't simply a naturally occuring thing just because it has no delay. As i first said.

No i am not saying such, Biblical information is just misinterpreted A LOT, Most of the time you cannot see things litterally.

Lately i have seen people theorize that gravity is not a force and it is a natural motion because gravity pulls something instantly. Like if you were to drop something it does not have any delay before it starts to fall. And they have attributed this to proving it as a natural motion. But i would like to disagree and show my arguement. First, The object begins to fall instantly because the gravity is already acting on the object. So it does not delay because gravity is already pulling on it. But your hand is stopping it in the example of holding something in your hand. So when you let go the object instantly falls to the ground. Second, The effects of LOSS of gravity as opposed to being effected by it do not take effect instantly. If the sun were to suddenly disappear then planets would fly off roughly at the rate it took for the light from the sun to reach you. So not only would the earth continue to receive light from the sun for 8 minutes but the earth would also continue to orbit around where the sun once was for 8 minutes. This is because the earth is still receiving the gravitational attraction it had to the sun . Any disagreements and arguements please post them for debate because i would love to get involved.

Oh yes and remember that this is my opinion and view and may not be fact. I am just expressing it and would like corrections and arguements.

Ok well we cannot rely on the information that the eclipse lasted 3 hours because a 10 minute eclipse is a very long eclipse.

No Israel is north of the equator.

On March 19th 33AD there was an eclipse that peaked at roughly 1PM, "The sky darkened" from roughly noon to 3PM according to the scripture. I guess i can start there.

And it was also a total eclipse.

A traditional date for the universe? I think not, There was once a guy that decided to use biblical genealogy to calculate the start of the world and he calculated some time around 1600 that it all began 6k years ago. BUT even so i don't believe that it is as traditional as christmas or other holidays. Even though that is accepted by many christians i think that they are miseducated. I am indeed a christian but i do not believe that it was created then. I believe that the universe is much older. As you will read in genesis chapter 1 the world was created before Adam and Eve and they were created on day 6. BUT do they have to be days in the terms we know them? Remember they did not exist until at least day 2. The universe could indeed be MUCH older

Does the traditional date match the criteria put forth in the Gospels? We also have a traditional date for Christmas, but it doesn't match what the Gospels say. Christianity has had a habit of stealing holidays from pagans.

Oh yes yes i remember about christmas and has we have repeatedly stolen pagan holiday dates. I forgot about such then. The gospels say one thing and the followers from hundreds of years later make a holiday saying something else. (Likely due to their lack of knowledge on it and ability to research it then they had to comprimise.) Thanks for reminding me, I could try and calculate it myself and see what i get compared to others.