Kturbo

Even out side of religious reasons,the existence of God is certain.One of the unique qualities humans have is self awareness, to the point where

we start looking outside of ourselves for answers about things.This trait I believe was given to us by a much higher level of intelligence than

ourselves.It's also this trait that have enabled us to completely dominate the earth and rule over every other living thing.This is exactly what the

bible tells us in Genesis.There won't be a time when a dog will look up at the sky and wonder what and who is out there,we humans do it

because we are connected spiritually to someone way more powerful than our selves out there and we are drawn to him.

The best answer to all these questions is that all reasoning failed before and at the point of singularity .

The big question is are we living in an illusion? If everything we see through our telescopes are billions of years in the past,Could it be that we are now living in a universe that has expanded so much that if we looked up at the present night sky we would see a starless sky? How can we make definitive statements and calculations about objects that might not even exist anymore,even though their light is just arriving at our telescopes after billions of year traveling through space.

Pretty interesting and logical definition you have for singularity.I guess you can get away with it from that point of view,but this would mean that time itself transcends the laws of physics since I believe it's the only thing

that would not have failed or could be applied to that moment of singularity.I always have to take the amateurs view when it comes to dealing with time because its such a deeply complex thing to wrap the mind around.

If God and evil cannot be in the same place, then Satan could not have been in heaven,

 

God could not have been in Eden, Satan and God could not have been betting over Job and the temptation of Jesus could not have happened.

 

You have just destroyed most of the Bible that points to your miracle working absentee god. Good.

 

Thanks for showing how well you can fathom the unfathomable.

 

Regards

 

DL

 

 

Indeed evil cannot dwell in God's presence,that's why Satan was thrown out of heaven.Satan could absolutely not have maintained his position in heaven with evil being found in him.Didn't Jesus always rebuke evil when it came into his presence? DL you actually do believe in God,even though you do not want to admit it.I find it strange that people are always angry at God and blame him for everything,yet they say nothing about the devil or blame him for anything.

Think of God's mercy for a minute,even the very breathe we use to curse his name he provides it.

Strange that you can take your quote literally and trash mine for doing the same as you.

 

Quite the level playing field.

 

As to the rest of your psychoanalysis, preaching and thinking that I hate a God I do not believe in.

 

Garbage.

 

Regards

 

DL

 

Peace and Love to you my friend,I pray that one day you will find what I have found in Christ Jesus.

The word is always foolishness to the non believer.

There was a body which have zero volume, infinite density and infinite mass. It is called the singularity.

From a scientific stand point that's an impossible statement.How can something have mass but no volume.How can mass and density be infinite yet occupy space and time,but have no volume.That's a complete paradox there,every known law of physics failed with that statement.This is the reason the whole theory of the big bang has no leg to stand on because singularity is impossible to achieve.This is why the big bang will always be a theory.

As far as I know, the big bang standard cosmological model starts about 10^-36 seconds after the initiating event (the big bang itself) with the proposition that there began a very short period of extreme cosmic inflation lasting between 10^-36 seconds and 10^-32 seconds after the big bang. The standard model makes no assumptions or predictions prior to this very early inflationary epoch.

 

There are several speculative theories, called Grand Unification Theories (GUT's), that attempt to describe conditions from 10^-43 seconds after the big bang to 10^-36 seconds after the big bang, but there is no consensus in the scientific community on the validity of any of these theories:

 

 

(ref. http://en.wikipedia...._unified_theory )

 

In short, the big bang standard cosmological model doesn't specify anything about what existed (or how long it may have existed) prior to about 10^-36 seconds after the initiating event (the big bang).

 

The use of the term "singularity" is just another way of saying that the physical laws that we have don't work at the very earliest times after the initiating event.

 

Chris

 

Edited to correct spelling errors

This theory has it's foundations based on too many assumptions

I do believe that time has no beginning or end.I think the entirety of space itself is really time and everything that exist within it,big bangs,multi-dimensions,multi-verses ect gives us

indications of its' existence.Remove all these things and time settles out like a pond eventually does after you throw a stone in it.If nothing happens then it remains absolutely still to

the point of seeming non existent until it's disturbed.Contrary to my previous post I think time does not need anything to exist but everything needs time to exist,it's like the pond

does not need the fish to exist,but the fish needs the pond to exist. Therefore I believe from a purely scientific point of view that only time would have been there before the big bang

because the big bang would have needed time in order for it to occur at that very specific moment (in time).

DL,The scripture simply means you must be willing to put him ahead of everything you hold dear,it does not mean you must actually hate the people mentioned.DL,I take it you are angry with God about something or you have bought into some lie the devil has told you.Jesus said " love your enemies and do good to those who hate you" could a line like that ever come from anybody else on this earth.

Please don't be angry at God,but seek him whole heartedly and you will find him because he said he would never let you seek him in vain.

I think most people's problem with God is the fact that he did not destroy Satan the moment he sinned.The reality is that God allows satan to run rampant as ample proof to all creation and existence that satan's way leads to destruction.Why would a supreme God need to destroy satan immediately,this would bring his supremacy into question among the angels,they would wonder who is next.He also did not destroy Adam and Eve immediately when they sinned,instead he showed mercy and gave them and their descendants a chance to redeem themselves.Do you think the devil at anytime would give any of us a chance or show us mercy.The state of the world today is satans work and yet he has been restrained or we would never live another second.If Satan was really allowed to do what he wants,do you think anyone of us would be here to be talking about issues in this forum? Look at what happened with Job,God placed limitations on satan because God knew satan would kill Job if given the opportunity.Jesus came and restored the bridge between man and God so all that is left now is the second coming when all things will be made new and sin and its originator are removed completely.

Not strange to me as there are a myriad of Christian sects.

 

That may be why there are and always has been division on that belief.

It is too weird to comprehend and is a make up as you go theology.

 

You seen to fathom the unfathomable, an impossible task.

 

Regards

DL

 

 

 

Other than hear say and book say, all hear say, how do you know that he is the one true God?

If he is not the ultimate in sin, then who do you place above him and thus break the first commandment?

 

You say God cannot change. That being the case, God cannot know you as you are new to the universe. If he is not allowed to change, accept new facts, the fact that you were born, then why would you follow him?

 

Regards

 

DL

 

 

I think you are missing the point,God exist from eternity to eternity,we and everything exist within that so there is never anything new to God,there is no new information to him.Since he exist from eternity to eternity then this is a testament to his unfathomable supremacy and there this absolutely give him the position as the True God.Sin has not place in God's presence,sin is anything that is done in opposition to God's way.God is supreme,this is why the devil wanted to be like him but such infinite power cannot never be wielded by evil.

God absolute does not change and I am talking about the God of Abraham,Isaac and Jacob.God is the ultimate in all things except sin.What new thing could there be for God to learn or know.Yes his creations change but he does not.Does God consult anyone for advice,help or knowledge? NO! That's why he is God,the one true God.

What does it mean for something to be before a Big Bang? Didn't time itself "begin" at that point?

Personally I don't the presence of time is required for anything to exist.I am speaking about time as an amateur so I know the pro's might have other ideas.Is it correct to say time can only be detected only when there is an elapse of time.If for example you were placed in an absolute void,nothing else in existence except you.Would you age? Since there would still need to be the passage of time for that to happen.If the answer is yes,then it would mean before the big bang only time would have existed in that infinite void.

I don't understand your paradox in relation to God's existence.God can and has revealed himself to mankind through religion and science addition to the fast universe we see.The very fact that God is God means nothing can be applied to him as well as everything that is good can be applied to him.God can be in this universe without anything about the universe being applied to him because he is God.Because he is God he came and walked among us and we did not die in his presence as well as he can reveal himself as he truly is and we would die in his presence.Can we do anytthing to ever stop God being God.

BCJ,

I see you have already placed limitations on yourself with that closed minded response.Guess what even garbage must be accounted for in the universe. A couple of centuries ago someone dared to think beyond the horizon and said the earth is round.The answer they got was "what garbage is this".

There is a difference between being conscious and being self aware.Humans are both conscious and self aware.It is self awareness that separates us from animals and plants.Animals and plants are conscious in that they are alive,but there is no meaning to being alive for them except to carry out biological functions.Human beings are self aware and they not only carry out their biological functions of being conscious,but they ponder their existence and how they fit into the scheme of things.They try to relate to other life forms around them and learn from them.

Life would be much easier if we had just one door to walk up to and enter.However,we are faced with many doors be it religion,philosophy ect.Some of these doors lead to no where and there is one that leads to the truth.We must individually chose which door to open,enter and follow that path to the end.I don't know if something occurred that changed your view point from christianity,but one day we will all find out if our paths lead to truth or a dead end. While I can't choose your path for you,I do hope you choose the door that is Jesus and walk through it by faith that you have chosen correctly.

At the moment science and spirituality are headed in the same direction on parallel paths.The answers we seek are found at the point where spirituality and science intersect each other.I think at some time the future generation will find that point and we will ultimately be enlightened.We were designed to search for answers,even in the bible for those who believe,it says God sets eternity in the hearts of men so that they will revere him.So we will always be in awe of the universe and the eternal nature of it.But I believe all the answers can't be found in science,just like the answers to biology can't be found in equations about aerodynamics.

From a purely scientific point of view,I think we need a new theory outside of the big bang because it has too many aspects to it that are based on assumption.We can't begin or propose a scientific argument by saying that at a specific moment a point of singularity appeared unless you are willing to embrace things outside of science.

Tar,

I think you want to believe in God,but you don't know how to.When Jesus said no one comes to the father but by me,he meant he himself is the door or the key that you must accept in order to see the other side.Everybody has to believe in something even if they say they believe in nothing that's actually something.You have to believe in God by faith,that he exist and that he is supreme.I am not trying to lead you to any particular sect of christianity but just to God himself.Forget about the individual rituals of each christian denomination and just think of yourself and God.It's like flying on a plane,you accept by faith that the pilot knows how to fly,you sit in the seat by faith that it will support you.We humans do almost everything by faith yet we don't realize it.We go to the zoo and stand right next to the tiger because we have faith that the fence will keep him away from us.It's that same faith that will lead us to God.God said he will never let you seek him in vain.Whoever seek him will find him.Just have the faith to step out of the physical world into the spiritual and your eyes will be opened to it.

I don't think time needs matter to exist,I believe it is always there.I believe we are confusing time itself verses the detection of the elapse of time.Yes matter affects time,it's like throwing a stone in a pond that is absolutely still.The pond would still be there even if there was no stone to throw in it.If there were no matter in the universe,there would not be any way to detect time or measure it,but that does not mean its not there.

For many years Scientist have always argued about proving God's existence scientifically,but can science be applied to a supreme being to whom we cannot apply any of our weak technology.He has given us enough evidence of his existence,including the most important evidence which is the fact that we are self aware and seek answers outside of our self.

There is a scripture that says God has set eternity in the hearts of men so they will revere him.It is that eternity that he has set in the hearts of men that causes them to continually look further into the universe or wonder where the universe ends.Even scientist sub-consciously search for God even if they don't want to admit to searching for someone bigger than themselves.

Even if we use the singularity explanation,we still have not addressed what the topic is about.For there to be singularity,there needs to be gravity on an impossible scale,but where would that gravity come from.Someone asked how does God give a better answer since from their point of view,they have not seen scientific data for God.Think of it this way,if you had a supreme being on such a scale that he created the universe that boggles our mind,do you think he would discuss such mind melting information with us? Imagine trying to explain string theory to bacteria,it would not be necessary.We always assume that something is not what it is or it is not there until there is scientific data.We may very well have superior beings living in our galaxy,but they don't see the importance of communicating with us if we are too "young intellectually" to deal with them,but that does not mean they are not there.The question of singularity as it relates to the big bang or before the big bang would be paradoxical since if all laws of physics fail at singularity,then gravity should fail too.Unless what we think we know about gravity is not quite so or we don't know enough about gravity to make definitive statements about it. The fact that we can barely harness enough technology to send a robot to mars is a testament to just how very very little we know.Getting to mars is like moving about a trillionth of a millimeter in the known universe.I resort to spirituality for answers because it's not bounded or limited to scientific results and data.A person addressing the universe from a spiritual perspective can undoubtedly say "Anything is Possible".Can a scientist say with a clear conscience "Anything is Possible".I don't think the universe could exist based on our scientific perspectives that continually has limitations and laws.

I think you would have to differentiate between scaling and expansion.Scale does require a point of reference,while expansion does not.When an object is scaled it is always proportional in all directions.Expansion does not follow this rule,in fact expansion usually takes the easiest path possible all the time.In the case of the expansion of the universe we can't really determine where those paths are.

I don't believe God has to explain himself to us.Even the bible says " who can say to God what have you done". Remember Abraham pleaded for Sodom and God said he would spare it if he found a certain number of righteous people there.Yet only Lot and his family were found to be righteous.We must remember that God is a loving God,but we must also remember that he is a just God too.Lot's wife came out safe but still disobeyed the instruction not to look back and had to bare the consequence.If God were unjust he would have let her live despite her disobedience,while destroying the people of Sodom.

Why would the creator of the ends of the universe need to sit us down and explain everything he does everytime he does them.We do things that our children view at the time as being unfair and many times we do these things without an explanation being given.Then later in life they realize that it was for their own good.

Think about God's love and mercy for minute,even when we hate him and curse him we still get a chance to repent and we even have life while we are cursing him.Satan and his angels hate God and yet they live because of Gods presence.God even restricts Satan from doing with us what he truly wants to do.The state of the world is just the tip of the ice berg compared to what satan would do to us if he were allowed to.If satan had full authority over all things,do you think he would ever allow you to even have a disagreement with him even in though? He would destroy you instantly.Yet our God allows us to disagree,curse him and do all manner of evil before him.Remember though,he is a just God and these things will come up for judgement one day if we do not repent of them.If there was no justice from God how could we define good from evil,don't you think Adolf Hitler should bare the consequences of his actions? Without God as our point of reference of what is good we could not differentiate between Hitler and Mother Teresa.

God knows evil,he does not do evil there is a difference.Satan knows and does evil.God is the point of reference for ultimate righteousness,holiness,goodness,knowledge,wisdom,mercy... all that is good.The more we venture away from these attributes the more we venture into evil.If you don't believe in God,against what point of reference can you then measure goodness,mercy,righteousness? God gave every angel and man free will,but he gave him free will along with a point of reference(himself) by which to live.There has to be consequence to everything done.To attempt to suggest that God is evil is blasphemy in itself.