budullewraagh

i distilled bleach once to use in a chlorine-producing experiment and the solid produced plenty of Cl2 when mixed with HCl

those crystals are the monohydrate of sodium hypochlorite. it should be noted that these crystals are pretty unstable and can explode violently, especially if dessicated to the anhydrous salt. i would advise you to redissolve the crystals.

with deficit spending skyrocketing, we have to ask ourselves whether it matters. my stance is that it doesn't really matter so long as the national income is not surpassed by the interest we pay on our debt and so long as other nations keep buying our bonds. this not only means that the possible extent of our deficit spending is limited, but also means that we are putting ourselves at the mercy of other nations. and, even if other nations are merciful, we are also in the position where we're screwed if those kind nations are to run into economic difficulty. it's an issue i thought of today during my econ class. your thoughts?

bettina, i addressed your two options. you chose neither. there is severe fallacy in your statement that ""savage" is a "natural" state for them, which is indicative to an "uncivilized" culture." "savage" refers to the natural "state." you cannot say that "uncivilized" is a "natural" state for a given ethnicity, or species for that matter. "uncivilized" itself is the "natural" state. assuming that you believe that arabs are savage, i now ask you whether you can blame them for being "natural."

your post really says nothign to me. i presented information concerning the relationship between "savage" behavior and "natural" behavior, which seemed to negate any possibility of one being both unnatural and savage. but if you actually believe that is possible, please do explain

oh but i never said being "natural" implied morality. however, i asked the question of whether we should look down upon those who are only being natural if you happen to think they are savage. if it is natural for humans to "kill homosexuals by bulldozing walls over them and kill young women in 'honour' killings and kill anyone who dares convert from Islam and hacking limbs off criminals" then certain islamic nations exhibit savage qualities. if it is not natural, they do not necessarily exhibit savage qualities.

it's interesting that you mention the word "savage," bettina. while, according to thesaurus.com, barbarous is not synonymous with savage, barbarian is. so let's pretend that barbarous was. "savage" can be defined as "not domesticated or under human control, (see untamed)" when we look at "untamed," we find that the definition is "in a natural state; not tamed or domesticated or cultivated; "wild geese"; "edible wild plants."" this is pretty interesting, because according to your logic, many islamic nations exist in the "natural state." should we really have a problem if they are only being "natural?" or do you take back the part about them being "savage?"

if we look to the merriam webster definition of the word "uncivilized," we see "not civilized, see barbarous." when we do see "barbarous," we see "uncivilized, lacking culture or refinement." to my recollection, decapitation had nothing to do with lack of civilization. as it turns out, it indeed does not. so, in conclusion, we find that you cannot call "these nations" "uncivilized" on the fact that there are beheadings, throat cuttings, etc

there has been speculation of alito possibly yielding power to the executive branch. this, of course, would be seriously changing the power distribution amongst the governmental branches. what say you to such allegations?

and the H2O2 wouldn't oxidize the HCl to Cl2? i've heard of H2O2/HCl mixtures being used in a number of reactions, but it sounds like Cl2 will be formed if there is any excess of H2O2/HCl; of course the initial oxidation is of the iodide/triiodide, but then wouldn't the chloride be next? also, i sort of want to play around with interhalogen compounds. any suggestions for making things like ICl2- and ICl4-?

i really dont feel like making more free chlorine gas. i dont have particularly good equipment and it's stressful work, so i want to use hypochlorite. problem is, of course, that hypochlorite solutions are pretty alkaline and i sort of want to play around with polyhalides or just make I2. i'd imagine that pH doesn't matter as much as amount of available hydroxide, so diluting bleach even further wouldn't help me, right? or is there a way around this?

also, completely dry fluorine won't react with quartz, glass, or a host of silicon dioxide allotropes. and for that matter, i don't believe that dry fluorine reacts with a bunch of dry oxides, if any.

sorry man, but krypton difluoride has been formed. also i thought i heard something about argon difluoride. i bet neon and even helium could react with fluorine at high enough pressure

it's really irrelevant whether drugs are good or bad or dangerous or not. what matters is the fact that if there is ever a shortage of any particular drug due to people getting caught, the supply will immediately be replenished by someone else out to make a quick and easy dollar. it's exceedingly easy to make a whole host of drugs with over the counter materials, so even if the government picks off a few bees here and there, they will never limit the supply of drugs.

the attached image is what i have in my room. the pic is pretty old, but the bottle still looks like it did back then, except my label looks like something spilled on it then dried. and i never exposed it to water. and my other wet samples dont have that sort of thing on their labels, so it's a bit odd. an important note is that the glass is clear glass, not amber, as the color of the contents above the liquid may suggest. interestingly, today, that area doesn't seem so foggy. so i take it that i have a bunch of ICl2-?

actually i just thought of something moderately weird but kind of interesting. consider the reaction between KI3 and NaOCl: (because NaOCl is effectively Cl2+NaOH and NaOH is really irrelevant in the reaction, we can call NaOCl Cl2, just multiply Cl2 coefficient by 2 to find NaOCl equivalents) 2KI3+Cl2-->2KCl+3I2 or is it the following? 2KI3+Cl2-->2KClI2+I2 consider the triiodide anion: I-I-I each with a 1/3 negative charge. i kind of think that the ClI2- anion will be formed, which would be cool. woelen, given your experience with polyhalide salt formation, perhaps you could shed light on this situation?

yeah, pretty much. i also recall it as looking scary

actually i'd like to see that happen in liquid fluorine. speaking of which, has anyone here seen pics of liquid fluorine? it looks vaguely ominous.

so, to apply all this: the E1 elimination that would occur would have a lone pair of electrons from the oxygen from the hydroxy group grab a proton from H2SO4 just like water does when H2SO4 is diluted. so, like H2SO4+H2O-->H3O+ + HSO4-, in this particular case we get H3CH2CH2CH2OH2+ and HSO4-. eventually, a water molecule or HSO4- anion (though it will most likely be water because HSO4- is a dreadful base) will take a proton from the carbon next to the carbon that has the OH2+ group on it. the electrons from the C-H bond are then transferred to form a second bond between the last two carbon atoms. this pushes the OH2+ group off the end carbon and it leaves as water. the push occurs because we would see 10 electrons around the last carbon if the OH2+ group were not to leave. another important note is that if the hydroxyl group weren't protonated to form OH2+, we wouldn't see this reaction occur because OH-, due to its basicity, is a terrible leaving group. the sN1 we would see has the same first step- the OH group gets protonated. but instead of having a base take away a hydrogen, the OH2+ just leaves, resulting in the formation of H3CH2CH2CH2C+ and water. then later on, a nucleophile attacks the carbocation. but anyway, the sN1 wouldn't occur in any significant degree because a terminal carbocation is reaaaaaaaaally unstable

yes, though there will be slight competition with SN1 depending on the concentration of the acid- the more concentrated the more E1 will be favored. with dilute acid, there would be a bit more competition with SN1 because of the abundance of water and the fact that the hydroxyl group is at the end of the alkane

"No. Try to understand the difference between 'atrocious acts' and genocide. Even if Israel is cupable for all you charge that does not met the definition of genocide." am i talking to a brick wall? i already addressed this! read above! "You are the one who has stated that the Israeli military never prosecutes any cases so really you should be capable of doing some elementary checking of the facts yourself. However, just to be helpful i'll give you a list to get you started." don't tell me what to ask or what not to ask. i made a request. if i am not presented with sufficient information, my point will stand. the first article appears to be legitimate. the victim in the second article was british, and was undoubtedly aided in his case by british influence. the third also seems legitimate. so there we have it. two cases in which israeli soldiers have been jailed for hurting innocent palestinians. and these are just "assaults." what about the murders? what about the 29000+ injured? you are hardly proving any case. "What a silly comment." what a pompous attitude. "The idea that because the Palestinians have more causalties than the Israelies therefore the Israelis must in some way be in the wrong is misguided." it's hard to believe that the israelis cant be wrong in killing 3700+ and injuring 29000+ when the palestinians are wrong in killing 1000+

congratulations, you are yet another of an ever increasing number of people who have missed my point, despite my continuous attempts to clarify. do you honestly think that israeli military members and/or government officials would actually be forthcoming about intentions of genocide? it's political suicide. and israel needs the us to like it, because otherwise they won't get weapons and aid, as previously mentioned. please consciously read all previous posts to make sure you aren't beating a dead horse over the head and/or making the same errors others made.

wouldn't ICl3 react with acetone to form chloroform?

"There is no evidence that Israel is undertaking any deliberate and systematic destruction of the Palestinans as a racial, political or cultural group. The actions taken by Israel do not come near meeting that definition." of course there is; they are doing nothing to punish those who have committed atrocious acts. as a result, they are effectively endorsing such activities. "If the Israeli military was deliberately encouraging or consistently turning a blind eye to the targetting of nonmilitary targets then that would make the military complicit in those attacks." let's not be naive. of course they wouldn't be forthcoming about their actions. this would not fly in the international community and the us would have to withdraw its aid, which israel depends on. in addition, it is entirely possible that the army is indeed complicit to some extent in these attacks. "However that is not the case. There have been incidents where Israeli forces have over reacted and incidents where crimes committed by Israeli forces have not been investigated and prosecuted with as much vigour as would seen just, but these are not consistent and do not reach the bar of being either state sponsored policy or terrorism. Israeli soldiers have been prosecuted for crimes committed against Palestinians and there are Israeli soldiers in prison for those offences. Israeli forces have repeatedly acted to prevent attacks on Palestinians by Israeli civilians." do identify cases to prove that you are not just thinking wishfully. "It is fair to point at incidents of Israeli overreactions and condemn them" again, we have the "oops" multiplied by more than 3700. if there were only a few isolated errors, i wouldn't have a problem. but once again, israeli forces are over 3.5 times better at accidently killing palestinians than palestinians are at intentionally killing israelis.

"The Israeli forces have certainly been guilty of lapses and excesses. But that does not justify the word genocide. The casual use of such language is at best sloppy, at worst deeply misleading and dishonest. At the very least padren should make some effort to substantiate the use of such a strong and emotive word." taken from m-w.com, genocide is: "the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group" but the point is that the israeli military and the israeli government are apparently doing nothing to stop deliberate attacks on nonmilitary targets. this means to say that the israeli military and the israeli government harbor terrorism. a commanding officer is responsible for the actions of his soldiers. if a commanding officer does not punish his soldiers for destroying civilian targets, be this intentional or unintentional, we can safely say that the commanding officer in the field has harbored such attacks. if knowledge of these attacks is made available to the commander's superiors (and don't say they don't know what's going on- if i know, they do) and they do nothing, it is safe to say that the state supports such actions