Phi for All

Are there similar Doomsday vaults with human and animal "seeds"? Did Norway buy any Murphy-proof mousetraps?

Distinguishing between a need and a want is one step towards wisdom, imo. Recognizing that part of what drives your purchases is simply a desire to acquire marks a milestone in your maturity level. I used to collect museum replica swords until I finally realized I was more excited by the prospect of shopping for my next one than I was when my current acquisition arrived. Shouldn't I have been more thrilled to receive something I'd been waiting for? But within a few days I was back with my nose in the catalog looking for what I wanted next. And don't forget the power of persuasion. Part of the "bang" is how good it sounds to you. I've noticed in the US that calling something by a French-sounding word makes it more desirable. I've lost thousands of dollars to the word "gourmet". Regular coffee comes pre-ground in a steel can with a plastic lid. Gourmet coffee comes in a paper bag as whole beans you have to grind yourself and costs more than regular. And what is a "buffet"? It's a cafeteria where you pay more and serve yourself. Pschologically, we often go out of our way to defend these types of purchases, more so than others. This tells me we probably know they're wrong and require justification. But those chemicals are hard to ignore.

Raising awareness regarding a possible global catastrophe doesn't seem overboard to me in the least, especially when the worst case scenario is that we spend too much money and time cleaning up the air we breath and saving a few forest ecosystems. To me it's a lot like spotting a huge meteor that will impact the earth in ten years. Better to give it a nudge now than have to give a titanic heave nine years from now.

A guy walks into a bar with an octopus under his arm. He sets the octopus on a stool next to him and announces, "This is the most talented octopus in the world. I'll bet anyone in this bar $50 that this octopus can play any instrument set in front of it." None of the people could believe this, so one guy brought up a guitar. The octopus took hold of the guitar and started picking away, better than Jimi Hendrix. The man took $50 from the guitarist. Next someone brings up a trumpet. The octopus started playing the trumpet, better than Herb Alpert. The man won another $50 from the trumpeter. Then some guy brought up some bagpipes. The octopus picked up the bagpipes for a minute and, looking a little puzzled, set them down again. "Can't you play the bagpipes?" the man whispered to the octopus. "Play it?" asked the octopus, "I'm gonna screw it as soon as I figure out how to get its pajamas off."

And you got away from jobs that wasted your time and figured out how to be more productive for yourself. That's what makes you exceptional. Just miserable enough to leave and make something better. Which you overcame. Would you still be in miserable, exploitative jobs if the pay was twice what it was? And went on to better yourself. Minimum wage jobs should not be careers. Making them pay better could destroy the initiative it takes to go out and get a better one.

And that didn't teach you anything you would want passed along to your kids? Why should it federally mandated to just hand it to them?

Support? A pallet on the floor, a blanket and some gruel? What would a minimum wage laborer insist on for support? There will always be a low end to the spectrum and by your arguments nothing that is done will ever be enough. I don't know if you've joined the workforce yet, but wages and benefits are all you're likely to get from an employer. In the interview, I wouldn't mention the fact that you expect them to support you. It's unfortunate that we don't have any members at SFN who can tell you about lack of freedom. The ones we don't hear from live in countries where what we do here is illegal. Freedom is only an illusion if your mind accepts it that way. OK but correct me if I'm wrong; we're only talking about doubling the minimum wage, not the whole equation. I realize why you brought them up, but when you tell me I "don't believe in a decent minimum wage, universal healthcare, childcare, public`education" just because I don't believe in doubling minimum wage, you go beyond completeness.

I can see the reasoning behind this, but this time it's not just the US. Why would Israel risk the attempt alone when so many other countries are against Iran's nuclear program?

I think this is more of what Douglas had in mind back in post #3. But it's not the purpose of business to provide livable wages. Their purpose is to create profit. And no one has done more to increase efficiency than McDonald's. I'm no fan, but they have made their jobs so easy to train for that they can actually turn a profit (not much lately) with one of the largest employee turnover rates in the industry (80% are part-timers and they have a 300% turnover rate in the US). They don't have to keep employees as long as they can show profits to their shareholders. And most employees quit McDonald's and go right into a similar minimum wage position, so the problem isn't just the wage. This concerns me, but personally I would prefer that every US citizen had the kind of education, training and personal initiative so that all minimum wage jobs could be held by school kids and guest workers.

Misleading Vividness fallacy. There is no ownership involved in the minimum wage employee/employer relationship. There was no choice of employers or skill set application involved in slavery. Well, now you're adding more issues into your argument that weren't there before. Please don't assume that because I argue not to double minimum wage that I'm against universal healthcare, childcare, and public education. That's just more strawman.

It seems they are saying, "Two years ago we promised the world we'd stop walking down this path, but it's a nice path for us and we've decided to start walking down it again." It also seems that this nuclear research has become a "source of national pride", according to Iranian news network Khabar's report from the Iranian parliament. I would imagine the Iranians you don't see on TV are not feeling national pride. I would imagine they are probably as freaked out as we are.

I would love to see a study for this. Opportunities for education doesn't mean they will be acted upon, money is only part of family stability and "reducing crime" is a pretty blanket assessment. I think it's been shown increasing to $10 an hour might not be good for the economy. Especially when it's a strawman because no one ever said "fast food is more important than a living wage".

ecoli is going to punch you in the shoulder for me for this strawman. Really, really hard. This is not about murder and slavery, and you can't blame people for complying with laws you don't happen to like. Look around you. Poverty has always been around, and our market economy is doing very well. Despite the loss of offshored jobs, despite the low education scores, and despite the minimum wage not being changed since 1997. While I don't think an inflationary adjustment in the minimum wage would be a bad thing, I think jumping to $10 an hour would. And once you do it, you can never go back.

But this has been happening for many years now, and unemployment has fluctuated but remains at an acceptable level. And some service industries can't be affected by offshoring because they need a labor force in situ. Fair wage is relative. Taking advantage of differing market and economic values is called arbitrage and has been a staple of business since the first trader said, "Buy low, sell high!". Except this has not been the case. Remember the big sucking sound Ross Perot kept telling us we would hear after NAFTA? It never happened the way he said it would. Well... yes, you're absolutely right. Education is the key. We can't afford to have such a poor learning system if we want to show the world what a democratic free market society is all about.

We've come a long way in the US since minimum wage was adopted, and with news coverage being instantaneous, if minimum wage was done away with how long do you think a tuna canning factory could get away with paying children $2/hour? Minimum wage is no way to breach the poverty line since it drives prices up enough to make any raise in minimum wage pointless. This is not true because the business owners have complied with the law and it's not their fault that employees who took the jobs they were offered don't have a better standard of living. The business owners will pay the lowest amount the employees and the market will let them get away with. The market always figures a way around obstacles when costs get too high. If a job pays so little or is too hard that no one will do it, something will change or the business will die. Minimum wage puts all the pressure on the business owners and none on the employee to get a better job. Education and training are better options but you can't expect the business owner paying minimum wage to foot the bill since he's the one losing his labor base. I wish public schools had a course for getting above minimum wage jobs and made it mandatory. Poverty is a tough problem because there is no single cure since there is no single reason for it. Most federal subsidies are forced to look at a "poverty line" that offers a single welfare solution to a variety of different circumstances.

There once was a guy from the West,who was given a poetry test. Miss Perfect said, "Rhyme!" and since she's so sublime, he wrote a poem to show 'em his best!

Actually that was meant for all the ladies who found me irresistable (according to your "what if" parameters). I felt it lost romantic strength to say, "...and then return to [insert name here] for a kiss." Marlowe was good, but not THAT good.

I would pick (and I would suggest that everyone can do this at this point) either: Both of these got a Spit-take rating in my book.

I think it was made very clear in the last few posts that we were indeed talking about minimum wage for kids. And for the others working for minimum wage, posts 4-6 still hold true. What good does it do to raise the wage when costs will go up to compensate?

I will be Paris, and for love of thee, instead of Troy shall SFN be sacked; and I will combat with weak Menelaus, and wear thy colors on my plumed crest; Yea, I will wound Achilles in the heel, and then return to IMM for a kiss. O thou art fairer than the evening air, clad in the beauty of a thousand stars. Brighter art thou than flaming Jupiter when he appeared to hapless Semele; more lovely than the monarch of the sky in wanton Arethusa's azured arms. And none but thou shall be my paramour. What if life was a musical?

Great story! I'll bet your boss loved your approach. I'll also bet you earned every dime you made. In my old neighborhood, two kids came to my door asking to cut my lawn. They wanted $20. I said, "You're crazy, I can mow it myself in less than an hour. With the two of you it'll take even less time. I'm not paying $20 an hour for lawnmowing!" Then I told them I'd make them a deal. I offered to call the two neighbors north of me and the two neighbors south of me and get them to let these kids mow their lawns for $10 each. "You can mow five lawns all in a row and make $50," I told them. I explained that they might even get our business weekly because all five houses would get mowed together and look mighty nice instead of being cut individually at different times. They could make $200 a month during the summer if they did a good job! They turned me down. It turns out they only wanted $20 to buy something at the mall their parents wouldn't buy for them and they really didn't want to work all summer.

Raising the minimum wage does nothing to teach kids what their time is worth. If you want to teach them what their time is worth, teach them to work harder and smarter. They are at the beginning of their work lives. Set the bar too high and they'll expect higher wages to be handed to them. If they want a job where they can get by with a minimum amount of work, the minimum wage is fine for them. If they want more they should believe their time is worth more and work to get it. Arbitrarily saying their time is worth more helps no one, employer or employee. Everyone thinks their time is worth more than they make, but few are willing to put in the smarts and the effort to make it so.

It was my understanding that dave almost brought the server to its knees with his tremendously immense high score in Chopper. There are only so many digits the bandwidth can handle.

I think snorting fiberglass would be considerably more dangerous than using, say, an asbestos snorkel, and would tend to decrease your clientele through attrition.