NavajoEverclear

ok, you are right. What I really meant is i think we need to make some urgent changes.

Far as i can tell the only people who like Bush, because they think they have to to be a good christian. Or because their hicks and think he's doing a good job of serving woop-ass. They just dont see that he's inviting the world to hate us even more.

As for horror stories, this one isn't horror, but it was scary.

Kay, there is a forest behind my house, also a resevoir in which several people have drowned. Naturally there are several stories about the place. Well who cares about them, but i got home from a party at about midnight, the front door was locked and my key to it doesn't work for some reason. Thats ok, i got a key to the back door. As i'm walking around back i can hear a faint noise, a little unusual, but it could be a bird. As i get to my back door, up on a deck, the noise is clearer, it is definately a human voice. A woman singing a creepy, haunting tune that repeats perfectly several times while my heart starts beating as i scramble to unlock the back door. Being nervous it of coarse takes me longer to get it open and i have more time to get scared. Then i got in and locked the door. Thats it, i dont know what it was. A few minutes later i opened my window, but didn't hear anything.

Another frightening experience i had was being paralyzed (not from fear, i did get scared, but i simply couldnt move to begin with) in my bed, half between dream and sleep and seeing a figure of a man standing in the curtains over my window.

Ok i've got to stop talking about it, cause the memories might spark something else to happen, which i dont think i want

sweet, but it said nothing about HOW the hell this could happen.

Whatever the fate of the universe, there must be some way that it continues the cycle of birthing another universe. To say there was ever a beginning, or that there will ever be an end, is to say that something came from nothing. Which it did not.

Thanks for your post Sketch, but i hope you rethink your attitude. We should conserve now to minimize the chance of such dire situations ever happening. We could make HUGE changes in our lifestyle that wouldn't kill us. Individual houses? we dont need those. We do need shelter of some sort, but a large amount of people could be put into a much smaller space than we are accustomed to. Cars? no need for them at all. Money, material pocessions. Completely unrelated to survival. We could subsist off of local crops and break into tribes.

Such extreme changes need not be the case, as if people would ever agree to such a thing. My point is to show you your stated opinion is an enourmous exaggeration. We could make huge material sacrifices that would have absolutely no effect on our health, if anyone it would be an improvement because all the processed fatty crap that is so popular is incredibly unhealthy---- as you surely already knew.

And like Thales said, if humans went extinct, most other things would not go extinct. We are among the most complex organisms, nothing relies on us, but we rely on everything 'below' us. If we die it might even be good for them.

But if we learn to respect the resources we depend on, we dont have to die. This is the outcome I, and every other human would prefer. Its just unfortunate that the people doing the most damage do not understand their direct relationship with the enviroment. They take it for granted and abuse it. Of coarse for the most part no one person has a huge impact, its a collective effort of destruction. And so we much collectively realize and change our behaviors.

Oh yeah its definately not supernatural. but its an interesting subject. I've noticed that i can sort of try to imagine voices, but its not like a real complete voice. Guess my imagination just isn't that good?

Hey do you think it would be possible to make yourself actually hear noises within your head? Theoretically it would be pretty simple, just being able to activate memory of noises and play them as if they were actually occuring. Kind of like a controlled scizofrenia. that would be really cool.------ could also be very useful when singing acapella if you could fool yourself to hearing an accopyment. I think some singers can do this to an extent

Google some information on it. Basically some rabbis plugged the bible (in original hebrew) into some computer matrices of some type and found lots words related to important huge events (no examples needed, I think they found most history-book highlights). They claim that the events are found in areas to tight to be excused as simple statistical probability.

So the only question is, are there any statisticians here who can find out what systems they used to find all this crap, and if it is in fact too highly improbable to be excused as a false alarm, or if the people studying the code are stretching the truth and making their own assumptions without making sure it is mathmatically sound as they'd like to believe.

The way i see it, this is a dead thread unless this question can be answered, and i dont know if there is anyone here qualified to answer it, or if it would take an irrational amount of effort to do so, so no one will bother.

Thats OK, cause i am only mildly interested, because either way i will continue to live my life the way i choose. God doesn't mean for us to be affected by these signs(if they infact have any credibility), I think it would show weakness if it actually scares you. Faith is not about proof, its about choice.------- however if there is such an advanced code, i think it could be a sign that someone other than God had their hands in the Bible. Which would also be interesting.

If you put effort i'm sure you could change your head voice.

Hey does anyone have this? At the end of a busy day, lying down to bed, you can hear buzzes of voices like a crowd? Every once in a while certain familiar voices pop out of the crowd saying, usually random things. After letting the buzz go on for a while i can even make familiar voices say what i think them to say.

i agree a lot with yourdad's posts, except with the language thing. In most other countries, people speak multiple languages. You do got a point about if we all spoke different languages it would create more racism simply because we dont understand each other. And if people are immgrating, it makes more sense that they'd learn our language, than we be required to learn theirs. But our country should be pushed to be more multilangual.

Just a note on Mexicans, i love mexicans. I think mexico should be made part of the U.S., which who knows might happen, if they all leave mexico to come here. However i by all means do not want them to adapt to our culture and forget theirs.

Yeh the universe is really wacky, maybe there is even such thing as freedom and some randomness, i wont pretend to really understand it.

But just a little on Quantum stuff, i really dont know much about it all, but I think the fields of probablility are related to the capacity in which we are capable of studying them. But in actuality they really are in only one place at a time, we just dont know how to to calculate EXACTLY. Well maybe thats incorrect but thats what it seems like to me

Diatoms baby!

i'd really love to see the crane crane. So do the bank and common myna have good mimicking capabilities too?

thats what i was thinking. i dont think the laws of physics allow for randomness, if they did they wouldn't be laws, and i universe would be wishy wash and weird. Or something.

I'm not religous and I do believe in natural selection. My point was more one of the abundance of structure in the world we have bought about via consciousness. The organisation and structure we have created seems to be the result of some overall structure governing evolution. I'm not saying god or a god is responsible just merely trying to grapple with the issue of our apparent suitibilty. And whether or not consciousness is a natural result of biological evolution.

thanks for clearing that up. Well i guess i see what your saying, but it doesn't seem as big a deal to me. I guess randomness would make evolution take longer, but it inevitably could still result in all the species we have today.

But then again, we certainly don't have proof that its just random, we simply dont know what it is if it isn't random. Also, if you think about it, a cell capable of altering its own genes to suit the enviroment better, would be a great benefit that would be selected by natural selection.

There was book called Quantum Evolution, i never finished reading it, and took it back to the library. The first part of it basically just goes over principles of biology and evolution, so i never got to the exciting stuff.

But i did read the jacket, and it said something about some way related to quantum physics that genes could choose their evolution somehow. Such a huge claim should make one a little skeptical, but its worth checking out.

Damn it - I spent a good few minutes hunting out [thread=381]this ancient thread[/thread'], but its relevance is diminished somewhat by the question not ever being answered.

I remember that thread! My reply on it was a more than a little retarded though, i think i'll edit it.

This thread looks like lots of fun too.

Why the hell am i still here?

Well i only use diatoms cause their pretty, and cause of their shells leads me to believe they are durable, and will survive better. Perhaps there is a better candidate for my proposal. My proposal is that we spend great effort on figuring out how to encode DNA, so that we are capable of creating small mechanisms for reading and copying the code ( i know enzymes do this, but for my purpose we may need more than what nature has given).

When we have these capabilites, we than design diatoms to carry and copy diverse individual human genomes, and genomes of plants and animals. If anyway possible, to encode messages that can later be deciphered by an intelligent species. We then release them to breed.

When we deplete our enviroment and everyone dies, the diatoms will survive. Bacteria and photosynthetic bacteria will over time, make the earth habitable again. These diatoms are still around. They even have a trigger to determine when it is safe to release their protected genetic passengers. They produce the fetuses which they carry, and produce the chemicals needed to feed them. Not all of their passengers will succesfully be produced. there may even be a large amount of evolution taking place here where the creatures most capable of surviving after being produced, will create whole species of altered organisms, better adaptapted for surviving from a diatom mother, probably in the ocean.

Eventually these creature will become smart, something humanlike, if capable of adapting to coming from diatom pools, will arise. Maybe the only hope for humans will be diatoms in shallow ponds, whatever. And then the diatoms also carry encoded messages, literature and countless other information, the key to its translation could be mathmatical, who knows, eventually an advanced species, possibly humans will read these messages, and change their culture as a result of the knowledge and history of the old world.

Could something like this be our hope for ressurection when we create our own apocalypse?

hmmm, that really doesn't sound like my thing. Plus, i'd rather spend my time on a family than my PhD. Any more active options?

my reason exactly

Sounds like you may be a religous person having trouble accepting the theory of evolution and thinking it must be not true for your own beliefs to remain true (i used to be). Or maybe you are simply bothered by the idea of randomness as you say. But seems like you'd just accept it unless you had a religious reason not to. If you understand natural selection, it doesn't really matter how the mutations come about. That which is best at surviving, survives, and that which is not so good, do not survive. Depending on the dramaticness or not, it takes many many generations to weed out the not so good.

The theory of natural selection is nothing but common sense. And randomness, well we cant be sure it is random. Chaos theory shows that random appearing results, can be caused by a highly ordered system. Besides that random, and accident are human words with implications of value. Genes neither have purpose, OR lack of purpose. They just are, then put in natural selection, and naturally they evolve.

Anyone experimented with harder core Jhonen, besides Zim? JTHM, Squee? i'm surprised i haven't even seen these mentioned with so many Zim fans. Maybe you dont get that hardcore Vasquez over in UK, how tragic! Still i think you can at least get it off Amazon.

What are some cool career options in biology? how do i get into them? Evolutionary study of some type is something i'd be specifically interested in, but whatever suggestions you got, i wanna hear

The tacos is an Invader Zim quote. Or as the devote of us call it scripture. And i dont really design diatoms. You do know what diatoms are right? no offense of coarse if you dont. I'll just mention them incase. They're protists (single cell eukaryotic organisms) with shells of silicon dioxide i believe, and they are very pretty looking (you of coarse need a microscope to see them)

wow thats a really cool part of evolutionary history that I didn't even know about, and I passed the AP Bio test with a 4! (not a 5, but it made me happy, and surprised everyone else since i failed the last term of the class for simply not turning in my work.) Speaking of the AP test, i hear in the East US you take the course of two years, here its crammed into one. Nice to get it done faster, but we probably dont learn as much in detail.

Oh yeah, my reply to the thread. Well i probably should go look in my AP cliffnotes to be exact on my history, but didn't the cambrian take a couple billion years? The older the period, the longer it was, i bet you've seen that circle chart where it shows what portion of history each era took, and the entirity of human existence is near about immeasurably small.

A Richard Dawkins book called River out of Eden makes a good point about generalizations we make about how undramatic the arisal of seperate kingdoms really was. If you really think about it the original sepration between one organism and another was so gradual, that for a long time, that which would evolve into one kingdom and that which would evolve into another, were indistinguishable from one another, and even reproductively compatable should they meet, except for the fact of geographical seperation.----- of coarse his wording of it was much better than mine, but you get the point

By saying "not everyone abuses it," you're pretty much saying "the rest doesn't matter, 'cuz those guys over there are responsible. Yeah those two, right there, behind the other three thousand." This isn't a one sided statement of course, just a simple point from a valid certain point of view.

Even though your lifestyle vastly contradicts mine i will not judge you for it. However, just to comment on that statement, you fit in the EXACT same catagory. I've never HEARD of anyone who is as careful with sex as you are. Which if you are going do it, i guess is the best way. But you see, that point cant be used against him when it applies so perfectly to you. I have not yet participated in sex, and do not plan to take marajauna, but both are incredibly addictive and have caused tremendous trauma in many people's lives, psychologically and physically. You are BOTH among a minority that has figured a way to be resposible with dangerous tools, and society may never be ready to take on the level of responsibility that you have (if you both are indeed as capable of being responsible as you claim)

it may take a bloody long time. That's why i'm letting them bring their wives, so their children can continue the quest if their fathers cant finish it. Hopefully they'll acomplish it before their generations run out of new breeding combinations and have to resort to imbreeding. It still aught to take a lot less time than it took us originally if they know how to do it, dont you think?

well about those pyramids, you may be right, i am usually skeptical myself, i just always have trouble believing people base their beliefs on lies and ill-interpreted facts. Not like its really an important issue anyway.

Hey what do you say we run this island experiment like a reality show?

Ok we have all this technology crap today. Our discoveries have come at exponential rates, while technology of all history before the industrial revolution basically stayed the same for thousands of years until someone came up with something like the printing press. Except this doesn't exactly apply to the pyramids, which we still aren't sure how the hell they got there, and dont have any fricken idea how to duplicate it.

But now that its taken us thousands of years we know how its done. Well I myself dont know how to make computers, or make the machine that makes computers, but i'm sure someone does. Maybe they could teach me.

Anyway, the idea is, if you knew how to make something complex, like a computer, how long would it take you to go from primitive tools, to making a computer. Put a people, maybe a group of people on an island, a big island with plenty of resources (doesn't really matter, the point is they have nothing). How long would it take them, from using natural rocks, to making stone and wood tools, to making steel tools, to building a mechanical machine, to building some type of electrical generator, to making the machine that makes the machine that makes a computer, that they can hook to a power supply, and by satellite, log on to science forums.net.

I propose we desert all of the moderators (and their wives to keep them company) on an island with nothing but loin clothes, and wait until they complete the journey from nothing to technology, then log on and tell us they did it.