Conscious Energy

The voice of the Hungarian soul. (A Magyar lélek hangja)
 

2 hours ago, Moontanman said:

I googled it and found several relevant studies but not the one I was referring to, too many to sift through but this one is similar. https://www.jstor.org/stable/43599398

Thank you Moon but this article is about how the communication of the ants is pheromone concentration dependent which is a common known knowledge.
 

There is no information in this article, which would address the communication between humans and ants based on pheromons

52 minutes ago, zapatos said:

Hate to break it to you, but...

"If any extraterestial life is in the solar system and yet they did not connect Us, it is because they do think we are not ready."

...is not an 'analogy'. It is an assertion that you cannot support.

It tried to be an assumption. I obviously can not assert such things since there is no evidence, yet. Maybe after the 25th of jun.

The analogies (Extraterestrial advanced intelligence vs Humanity, Einsten vs bacteria, Me vs chickens) 

12 hours ago, Phi for All said:

Zapatos was pushing back against your argument that aliens would consider us beneath their notice by pointing out that intelligent beings find many things interesting

This I understood, thats why I created the analogies, why it would be difficult to communicate with a significatly more intelligent and advanced extraterestial entity, even the interest is there from both party.

6 hours ago, beecee said:

we can reliabley conclude  that there is no intelligent  life forms within our solar system

The UAP incidents indicate it differently, thats why we pounder the idea 

10 hours ago, zapatos said:

Why couldn't it be because THEY are not ready?

Try to understand my analogies instead of recognizing them as strawman.  

10 hours ago, zapatos said:

Claiming to know the mind of aliens is risky business.

I do not claim that I know the mind of aliens.

I am able to imagine the advance of an extraterestrial civilisations, which matured billions of years in technological singularity, compared to Us. 

That comparison, after knowing that the first cyano bacterias appeared on earth ca 2 billion years ago came up as the analogies you recognized as strawman. 

1 hour ago, Moontanman said:

 

We, humans, try to talk to ants, yes we actually make giant ant colonies and try to communicate with them via pheromones. Just because you wouldn't do it doesn't mean someone wouldn't be interested. 

Fermi's paradox has many different potential answers, far too many to be adequately discussed here.  

True, but just one answer.

By Time, we will have the answers and I hope in 2 days at least we will get some real hints.

If any extraterestial life is in the solar system and yet they did not connect Us, it is because they do think we are not ready.

Their appearance could trigger the collaps of the type 0 civilization we are. (they might even have empirical data on such events).  

An intelligent lifeform wouldn´t wanna do that to an exposed underdeveloped civilisation, specially if it can exist anywhere else in the Universe. 

1 hour ago, zapatos said:

Can you say "Strawman"?

Can you elaborate maybe in another thread, not to develop a thread hijack?

1 hour ago, Moontanman said:

We, humans, try to talk to ants, yes we actually make giant ant colonies and try to communicate with them via pheromones. Just because you wouldn't do it doesn't mean someone wouldn't be interested. 

I am sure that there are planty of scientiest finds an interest in ant-human communication and it is a very well studied and explored teritory of science. I do not find any material on the topic on google though so could you link the study describe this human-ant communication set-ups, its results and long term implications? Maybe in another thread not to make a thread hijack. 

6 hours ago, beecee said:

The Universe is a huge mind boggling expanse. Even the discovery of the most basic of Alien life form/s, will prove to be awesome Earth shattering news.

As mentioned earlier, time and distance are the two forminable barriers inhibiting contact between Intelliegnt species.

I agree. 

Still time and distance do not prohibit contact between Intelligent species. 

9 hours ago, zapatos said:

Not everyone is completely lacking in curiosity or would consider finding new life to be beneath one's dignity.

I'm guessing you don't bother to interact with many people who have cognitive disabilities.

Than where is EveryOne?

Well I interact every day with people who has cognitive disabilities. I even develop a software (not just) for them, to help better preception of medically relevant data. I still do not go and speak about medicine with chickens, as I know they wont understand anything I would try to say.

Every intelligent entity will be able to estimate how much the counter part can perceive. An andvanced intelligence has no point to push their understandig to a species which can not comprehend the information they try to communicate. 

21 minutes ago, zapatos said:

someone interested in talking to us will likely attempt multiple channels.

Why any advanced civilisation would wanna communicate anything to a civilisation which can not even speak the same universal math they do.

Like someone would expect from Einstein to repeatedly explain on different channels the theory of Relativity to a streptococcus bacteria. 
 

2 hours ago, dimreepr said:

Where do you look???

In the mathematically most probable point of space(time) 😉

The information is 99,999…% sure out there.
 

Sadly we yet do not have the physical reality adjusted absolute true math which would be able to predict where to look for it.
 

I think we just yet not enough intelligent to participate in interstellar/intergalactic communication. I.e. in the 21th century, in the age of technology we are not able to answer how much Is 1/0 and why. 

How would we be able to participate in a communication which could happen on the speed of c on the x, and might even  involve energy and matter(atoms)? 

There are solutions out there we yet can not even understand since we yet not able to perceive and axiomatise(theorise) Reality beyond Relativity.

If we do not really know how the Universe works, how can we expect to find the channels and methods, the universal communication happens in.

Like a bacteria would like to join the ScienceForums.net

Due to the extrem extent of space, I voted another planetary system.

In my opinion life is quite common in the universe, considering that every sun has a habitable zone, during their entire lifespan.

I think there might be billions of intelligent life’s out there with different levels of evolution. 

type 0 = 99.999999999…9%
type 1 = 00.0000000000…4%
type 2 = 00.0000000000…3%
type 3 = 00.0000000000…2%

type 4 = 00.0000000000…1%

I think distance (Space) with time can be conquered, by the help of Science, so an aged, matured, advanced intelligent life form could be able to pay us a visit. 
 

Digital information every electron has we might just not be able to account every single (1) of them.

Not because I applied some laws. The only goal can be to understand how is it working so I can not apply some laws. I can apply the laws align with what we (bio)Physically can preceive, observe, approve. The system seems to support the mathematically recognisable notion of nothing(0) and anything(1) and yes, I expanded a bit the envirnoment but I play within Space(Time), Energy, Matter and Information. What I see in our Relative Reality is that, we could maintain digital information received from any indivual basically forever, with a bit more advanced and safe digital environment, running on a safe hardware. 

3 hours ago, Phi for All said:

That stretches the definition of both words into meaninglessness.

Could you elaborate which meaning you do not sense?

Space and time can not degrade. Can they?

How do you interpret otherwise the notion from the first law of thermodinamics that Energy can not disapear it can be transformed? That is true, so Energy will exist in different forms forever. Or?

Even it is a broad thought, since we speak about the whole Energy content of our Universe (within any photon, electron, wave...), I think it is perceivable.  

12 hours ago, Phi for All said:

Is your power source eternal? Does the medium never degrade?

Energy can be transformed but can not disappear so in some sense the source of Energy is eternal. 

Space(Time), the medium Energy is existing in, will never degrade. 

What is Immortality?

When and How could we achive that?

Are we digitally already Immortal?

The question should be when Humanity could possibly reach immortality and how. 

I would say Digitally we are already immortal at some sense.  

0.1 mm urinstones, 1mm in diameter blod vessels. 0,1 mm thick urinblader and gall blader walls, tricuspidal valves.

It depends a lot from the resolution of the Ultrasound machine. 

20 minutes ago, Eise said:

Sure, for many 'things' existence means 'existing in time'

As far as I am able to perceive anything is existing in Space at a moment of time.

Could you give an example what is able “existing in time” without space?

50 minutes ago, Eise said:

another example: space and time. One could call them the 'stage' on which causal processes occur (Pity that Markus is away now, he surely had to say something about it from the viewpoint of general relativity...). But they themselves do not exist in the same way as physical objects or processes exist in space and time. Space does not punch a ball, neither does time.

Space and Time do not exist the same way as physical objects, true, but they do exist. Further more they exist for anything ever have been existing in the past, present and future

11 minutes ago, Prof Reza Sanaye said:

1__ Things do NOT exist for playing a role in human beings' lives. 

That is what I said as well...

31 minutes ago, Eise said:

'something exists if it can play a role in somebody's life'.

If something is existing, it will be, independent it plays a role in somebody’s life or not. Like a photon from the edge of the Universe we not yet detected but we will in a half a year time.

31 minutes ago, Eise said:

If you want a general definition

Something to be. 

Rage against the machine: Killing in the name of

2 hours ago, joigus said:

Do colours exist? Can you really say somebody is red-faced?  

No. In reality the rather blue(ish)  

58 minutes ago, zapatos said:

I don't see how you can measure or observe a point of space. You can observe or measure something that is in that point of space, but you cannot observe space itself. 

Theoretically go to intergalactic space, recognize the shift of the Universe (if there is any in the intergalactic space) and adapt to it to be able to observe just one particular area. Create a vaccum and detour any incoming photon, wave etc with magnetic fields from the area. Than observe every point of this area.

The question I wonder would electrons still pop into existence in an area like this or that is absolutely impossible?

1 hour ago, swansont said:

I can measure a shadow or a hole. Are these physical objects?

If we count space as an object yes. If we count space as a physical entity yes. We can recognize the lack of light in the given space where the spadow appears. 

1 hour ago, swansont said:

It’s a simple, independent criterion.

Could you hand me gravity or a magnetic field? Are they physically absolutly non existent concept as well? 

1 hour ago, swansont said:

Because concepts are not physical objects.

So space is a physically absolutely not existing concept too? 

1 hour ago, Phi for All said:

You can hand me a cup of something ON fire, but not the fire itself, even though fire has several aspects that can be measured independently. 

Wiki: Flames consist primarily of carbon dioxide, water vapor, oxygen and nitrogen. If hot enough, the gases may become ionized to produce plasma.^[3] Depending on the substances alight, and any impurities outside, the color of the flame and the fire's intensity will be different.

Isn´t it a technikal issue not to be albe to handle me fire, as a flame has physical attributes. Higher temperature in the flame of the participating gasses and matter. You could give me a group of high temperature nitrogen atoms for example with a special flamethrower. It will have a significant impact on the enviroment so it is not just a concept. 

8 minutes ago, swansont said:

Time can be measured. Time is not a physical object.

True, Time is not a physical object but still a physical entity. If it would not be, there would be nothing to measure. 

Why the option to be able to hand over something, makes a thing physical?

Why the ability of measurement and observation is not enought to say that something physically exist?