naitche

On 11/14/2022 at 7:49 AM, StringJunky said:

An intersubjective position is that where opinions are in concordance with each other as to the evidence and observations presented.

I see that as recognition of an objective reality. Recognition of a state of being that has no value independently.

The values taken and responses given, are given subjectively. Through individual  relationship to the state recognized.

Peoples can respond in concordance, but as an identified collective, the value is still subjectively accrued to that collective.ie humanity, the US or the body affected.

It seems to me there are 2 values to the duality of reality. The value can be to state/form or to purpose/function/direction.  One or the other only, applies at a given time/context. The application of subjective values to objectives provides direction, structure and is = to the familiarity, recognition and responses given in biology. 

The objective has a value  of One. Only one. It has no value independently, only by its subjective recognition as One.

Subjective application of a second value to the objective is reductive. Its belief, or faith- the object is not recognized for the singularity of its being, but by the value or validity of its state in relationship. it reduces recognition of a state of being to its secondary objective.

Hence the 'old' definition of racism or bigotry. Blurs the line between the objective and subjective realities so that deviation from its secondary 'characterization",  is not recognized in any response, but deemed invalid.

On 11/14/2022 at 1:41 AM, Sensei said:

Which can be easily disqualified by looking at people with mental problems or other inabilities.. Their subjective reality might be different than yours..

ps. You don't know how some person (any person, including your family and friends), animal or other thing (A.I.?) look at this world..

 

Yes, if its subjective its perspective dependent and differences will be evident in the value expressions given. I don't see how that disqualifies the duality of its sum. 

I would expect subjective realities to vary-A different subject is also a different object with its unique state and position in reality. The values recognized to its state and position are limited to those.

State and position in reality  are altered, through subjective expressions of value ie familiarity, recognition and response for biological entities, inanimate objects and entities both  through environmental conditions they are subject to.

A Subjective reality depends on the object the value is attributed to. An object until value is measured from that perspective. The value is subjective. Its expression directing the manifestations of reality.

What is the purpose of Life?

Is always  subjective to the reality/perspective given.

So Objectively, the purpose it serves  looks to increase and enhance the values and estates expressed .

Its dimensions connected and altered  through familiarity, recognition and response, increasing its states and manifestations through relationship. Ie: increasing subjectivity, or subject matter/states of reality recognized and 'assumed' in connections forged.

Not exactly on topic, but couldn't decide on a more fitting one. 

I found this Lace Monitor eating my eggs this morning (Goanna)

I tried to scare it off, since its been hanging around persistently since it was a hatchling even after run ins with my terrier. Its now big enough to eat him and the chickens, toxic enough to cause pretty bad illness from a bite for the dog and got there on my eggs.

I pushed him away from his perch near the shed roof before he could get through to my other dog who was waiting to tear him apart and he ran along the beams to the cupboard in the 2nd photo, dug himself in the gap between it and the roof. He left after we gave him time and space. I doubt hes going to stay away long. we have too much history now for this scare to work I think.

I've found an old cage that I should be able to modify with a trap door pretty easily so its moved on site close to the eggs. I'll give him a week to be back, plenty of time to set up and bait. I can release him elsewhere.

Looks like a type of Dove. 

I'm not familiar with the species though, Google should help. Doves of...where ever you are at.

Farmers for climate action is the name of the Ausie group putting out the webinar/podcasts if you are interested in looking further. I suspect (and hope)  other similar groups can be found globally.

On 8/28/2022 at 11:18 PM, mistermack said:

Agreed. There are some really good items on youtube about re-greening semi desert by ensuring that the soil remains covered, and the results look pretty dramatic. It might be that grazing goats by humans is responsible for the spread of a lot of desert. Besides eating every green thing, they will also eat anything that ever WAS once green, and you end up with bare soil. 

 

Definitely the case, though goats do have a place in managed systems. Some land care groups are actively teaching system management  to subsistence farmers as part of their work. Australia has used heavy stocking rates of goats to clear black berries ( an introduced noxious weed here) and tangled undergrowth from open forest surrounding a  dam, larger than our Sydney harbor, preventing chemical run off into the system.

Goats are browsers, so used in open, mature forests they can be used to control woody weeds and undergrowth while trampling whats not eaten to cover the soil while waiting for grasses and regrowth. Mature trees are rarely touched while there is sufficient accessible brush. Most of the damage caused by goats is when brushy land cover is already depleted and or stocking rates are too dense. 

Some regenerative farmers will rotate goats on select parcels seasonally or confine goats to smaller lots for hand feeding excess foliage and trimmings when open forests need resting. 

Yeomans ideas along with Harappans and other related land hydrology techniques are gaining ground around the world amongst farmers, not so much Govt. with little recognition or assistance for the private land owners under taking the projects, though in Australia there are carbon credits that can be used for the larger tracts where this work is being done. Its not economical  for smaller tracts to take advantage of the carbon credits due to testing costs atm.

The research though is ongoing, mostly privately funded and so far geared to drought 'proofing' and regenerating private lands. The Australian Govt. research institute C.S.R.I.O does support a lot of the actual lab. work and there are often incentives for larger tract owners.

The benefits of regenerative land works are greater overall productivity, greater resilience to both drought and flood and exponential increase in carbon intake and storage in soils. Interest in land hydrology and regenerative systems is growing  around the world.

An Australian group is putting out podcasts for members where successes can be shared and duplicated, carbon credit systems explained and information can be disseminated.

Ground up solutions seem to work best from my perspective. Govt. bodies have an over view, but don't have the intimate  knowledge to direct effective actions for local ecosystems. Incentivizing  local actions and providing support where its seen to be needed IMO work faster and more economically with more co-operation and enthusiasm.

Media could play a more a much more effective role, by show casing  projects and results for emulation, incentivizing local projects and enthusiasm for real ground up actions. Demonstrations of value need to given, before their effectiveness can be recognized. We seem to caught up in negative loop. Value demonstrations given by media are predominantly negative. The solutions called for by a public so negatively  informed will continue to be reductive.

The public could also use better information before calling for out right banning of things such as livestock production, while its use in more integrated and diverse systems is essential to long term management and soil health of both grasss lands and open forest. The corporate intrusion  into farming practices and supplies has seen huge increases in out put by farmers, but these seem to be temporary, leading to land degradation and increasing need for more chemical and fertilizer resources to maintain. The costs increase, while out put falls due to depletion in soil health.

I think if these systems got more media promotion, it would increase their support and uptake, Maybe Govts. would then be called on to implement larger scale systems closer to habitation.

Works are often disadvantaged or rendered impractical through legislation targeting the poorest examples of farming practice. With out examples of success to emulate, reductionist measures will appear the only obvious solution.

Soils should ideally  be covered to make use of any rainfall. Soil microbial systems and health depend on that mulch to modify soil heat and humidity . Uncovered soils have poor ability to retain moisture. The microbial systems are leached and sterile for the most part, with pioneering species often needed to start the processes for successive growth.

Mulberry tree are very fast and easy to propagate.

If you just cut a 2 foot tip from the tree branch and pop it into a pot of soil,  keep watered it will sprout roots very quickly and should bear fruit within its 1st year. They grow fast and are quite hardy. No rooting hormone or fancy magic needed for them.

I have 8 started from before winter and every one has buds and roots come spring. Might help to keep the cutting out of very hot dry conditions for a few weeks.

I've never tried such a huge branch, not needed, but you could try reducing that by half and giving it a try as well as the tips as an experiment. Younger, new wood should work better though and the speed of growth is very good.

It helps if you strip all leaves except the those on the top tips of your cutting.

On 8/19/2022 at 12:36 PM, Sensei said:

"Practice makes master"

and

"It is better to try and fail than not to try at all"..

 

My cheddar was the fail, turned out like a block of sour milk. The only difference was a swipe of the culture from the wrapping of a brie before it was cured.

6 hours ago, Sensei said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Sourdough for sour soup - ingredients:

- 5 tablespoons of rye flour 2000
- 500-700 ml of water
- 4 cloves of garlic
- 3 bay leaves
- 5 grains of allspice
Sourdough for sour soup - preparation:

1. I put flour in a jar, add water and garlic cloves cut in half.
2 I mix thoroughly, get the leaves and allspice. I cover the jar with gauze or linen cloth and leave it on the counter for a few days.
3) If I want to speed up fermentation I add a tablespoon of sourdough for bread or a tablespoon of pickle juice.
4) I stir the sourdough starter every day. When it smells and tastes sour it is a sign that it is ready. I pour the sourdough into a bottle and keep it in the refrigerator.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

(so it is simply the same procedure as with pickled cucumbers, but flour instead of cucumbers)

 

ps. Anyone here have a cow to borrow? We can also make some experimental cheese..

 

No, but I used to have goats and I tried my own cheese. Ended up eating a 1 kilo block of Brie by myself, when no one else was willing to try. 

Nice! 

I don't see how you can claim an 'objective meaning' to life. 

What are you actually asking here? 

What is its value? Its purpose? 

Objectively, surely that would be to live? To be.

If life is the objective.

All else is subjective, if any value is to be assigned that act.

Those expressions of value contributed direct the collective form taken, even if individually, those are limited to their own perceptions of reality.

Urgh, yep, that one does it.

Carried Human babies would have less need to cry out when the mother is aware and prepared for the 1st snuffle seeking the breast, or squirm of discomfort.

I think I recall a study showing that mothers in a maternity ward had a high chance or recognizing their own babies cry fairly quickly from many.

20 hours ago, naitche said:

Only relationship can provide the balance. The subjective.

It leads the way. Form/state follows function/direction

Identification is objective/reductive.  Any measure or value is subjective. Supports the purpose.

Subjective values can't be applied objectively, with out creating a double negative. A negative bias.

Objective values can be applied to the subjective, but only in service to the whole of reality. Equal in consideration.  To provide equal structure.

Realities equal as one, otherwise, Naught.

 

Ugh. My poor wording again. 

Value can only go one way, to direction. 

Application of the objective, to an objective, is the double negative. The value is assumed into the negative, and has become a 'value' since it can only be applied that way, subjectively.

Objectives applied subjectively direct structure. Structure which will only support the reality assumed in/by? its implementation.

Seems to underpin biological and evolutionary process of recognition and response., and to work in the social sciences, explaining the use or purpose of belief or bias to organic structure.

Reality can only hold what it will assume or except.

Only relationship can provide the balance. The subjective.

It leads the way. Form/state follows function/direction

Identification is objective/reductive.  Any measure or value is subjective. Supports the purpose.

Subjective values can't be applied objectively, with out creating a double negative. A negative bias.

Objective values can be applied to the subjective, but only in service to the whole of reality. Equal in consideration.  To provide equal structure.

Realities equal as one, otherwise, Naught.

My best hypothesis atm  is that objective and subjective realities are equal, as One.

If Objective reality is the state of being,  with out relationship.

and subjective, in relationship.

Where a state of being is decided  or final, its in decline. Nothing is the only enduring statehood.

Its measure must be evidenced.

Its equal. The balance between something and nothing is its measure.

Identity/Identification is always objective. Without relation to. Defined from the  relationships/environment that assign it value.

So any measure/value is attributed subjectively, to the relationship between its measure, and its being.

So local environment.

9 hours ago, Moontanman said:

While acknowledge my experience in this is highly limited, I've known only one transgendered Male/Female, he/she was... trying to put this delicately, well I'll describe her, about 6'6, muscular, large breasts, huge feet and hands, almost a walking circus act. She went to our church I felt a lot of sympathy towards her, I had extensive talks with her and found out the transition had pretty much brought her life to a halt, she lost her kids to her ex-wife, lost her job because she couldn't stand the hostility from her co workers. Her life was a mess, a horrific mess. I hope it got better as time went on but I have my doubts, she left town for a job and I never saw her again. This was a horror story by any ones measure. 

This thread make me wonder if she would have been better off if the transition had started before or around puberty. One thing is for sure, the transition didn't affect her manliness and I have known very tall women before but she was a fish out of water for sure.  

Sad to hear of such a horrific result. 

I good friend I've lost touch with transitioned about 50 years ago, also from a large man, but much better result. An amazon of a woman, who was a game show hostess for a while and married to the host at one time.

She had a dispute over a horse once, resulting in her sitting on the porch with a shotgun waiting for the other guy to show up. 😄 

On 5/27/2022 at 2:03 AM, Peterkin said:

Why would you think that? Is there a historical basis for this belief? What is the reason women chose this option when/if they had other options?

I'm not saying it's wrong; just that it's contrary to anecdotal testimony I've heard*. It also sounds vaguely like the seperate-but-equal arguments for racial segregation - the result was separation but no equality.     

*Anecdote very far from top elite professional world-class competition, though international. A young friend, who was eight years old at that pre-Covid time, was temporarily relocated to France with her parents. She loves hockey. They do have a Moustiques  (under 9) league, but there were not enough girls in the school district to make up a team and they wouldn't even let her try out for one of the boys' teams. So, tough. She missed two years of development, at a critical age, in the sport at which she excels. Because.... Vive la differance! 

Women have pushed for inclusion in sports such as equestrian etc. Those sports where men and women compete together are not under contention for transgender inclusion afaik, and I have not noticed anywhere women are trying to combine classes for men and women in the sports still segregated.(at least in western countries) seems they are content with  segregation in those sports and the option was chosen in recognition of  womens disadvantage otherwise. That competition in those sports would not be equal.

There  also seems little interest for trans men to compete as men in those same sports. In recognition of the disadvantage they would have ?

The sporting arena is increased. 'Classes" are added.

So I guess it is equal but separate, the difference being that this separation allows  equal participation in a single, given space. ie the sporting arena which already consists of separate but equal  sports. Its just another sport to increase  that space. Equal footing in a given space/arena.

Where racial segregation is a separation of the space itself.  Each space is lessened.

It was never done in recognition of equality. The equal but separate was a lie. Division of a single space based on the differences of the halves, can not be equal.

Sorry for your niece missing out on valuable grounding in her chosen sport. I doubt there is any reason at that age and older for segregation. 

On 5/27/2022 at 2:23 AM, CharonY said:

Yes obviously the athletes should be part of the conversation, no doubt about that. That does include transgender athletes. And rather unfortunately quite a few of the laws and rulings do not include consultations with said athletes which, as you said, is patronizing. Note that discussions on this board are purely speculative as AFAIK no one here has ruling power for any sports. It should also add that there is also the issue that sometimes a women's league is desired as women have less support in certain sports due to certain performance assumptions (which we discussed in context of jockeys).

 

That is not what was proposed, from what I can see.

I think that (or some variation of it) seems to be  what most advocating to integrate transgender athletes are basically proposing. I should add that the differences should not be sexual, but performance traits relevant for a given sports that are likely to be sex-associated. 

It sounds like they are proposing doing away with the segregation altogether. I am not. Just adding open classes. Not where advantage or disadvantage is measured in selection(any more than already done), but where the sports are changed or adjusted so that sexual advantage or disadvantage are nullified as far as possible. It might increase overall interest in sports from both a spectators or participants perspective. I would find that more interesting and believe over time, a win in open would be seen as more prestigious.

Enable an evolution, instead of imposing states. Imposition isn't done in recognition of equality, and is more likely to meet with an equal and opposite force.

I would think the majority ( maybe not all)  of sports still segregated by sex are segregated by choice of the women taking part, for a reason. 

Those women should be the ones to decide if the reasons for segregation are compromised by  the inclusion of trans women. Kind of patronizing for others to decide on their behalf.

I  see the solution being proposed as unworkable. It complicates qualification,  making it harder for everyone and seems too much like matching every one up perfectly and throwing a dice. It becomes chance, not skill/strength/endurance etc. A prize for every one, eventually. Not much for the spectator in that. Sport is lessened.

It would make much more sense, I think, to create open classes in those sports where the game/rules are adjusted to compensate for measurable sexual differences. Trans men would have an arena option too.

The sports expand and grow from there as they will, if every one who believes in equal participation, does.

My Trans niece said very recently, that  "of course I would have an unfair  physical advantage over women". She is about 5"4 and  'petite' as any of the earlier posted pictures tried to convey. Pretty sure she meant women of comparable physique.

Beautiful!

😄 Good one