Tampitump

 

 

If you say so...

alright, thanks man. Appreciate it.

Not sure why it's unacceptable to vent. You get labeled a narcissist if you do.

 

 

On reflection, please don't read it...

I care deeply about my loved ones, and about other people. I'm not a narcissist. You're wrong.

 

 

You're so, I want to say narcissistic but I've a feeling it's narcissistic by proxy, childish or maybe you've just read "A catcher in the rye".

Nah, not really man.

 

 

So why post it?

Because iNow got me wrong. Its important, when evaluating my motives, to understand the pain caused by my depression. That's why.

And just to clarify, this conclusion:

 

 

Is in no way, shape, form, or universe either valid or correct given this genuine admission:

 

this is only true if I have actual intentions of harming myself, and I don't.

Whoa...Are you saying you've been rejected by 3.5B+ females already? Holy monkey testicles, batman... That's incredible, dude!!

.

That's not actually what I meant by that. I meant not just women, but men and women alike (i.e. everyone I meet). They seem to have the same opinion of me. No one really likes me. I'm sure you guys have a clear picture by now as to why that is.

 

I know I seem like a sad little prick and a total asshole. I'm sorry. Perhaps my problems are due more to a shitty personality. The truth is I really just hate life, I hate myself, and every night I wish I could just go to sleep and never fucking wake up. Sleep is the only time I'm really happy. Again, I'm not suicidal. Just explaining my everyday feelings. I'm okay.

Only you can decide to make your self-fulfilling prophecy not be realised.

Its not a SFP. My intent from the beginning was not to see to it that people did not like me, then whine about it. This is a reaction to how my life has been since it began. I don't think you're granting my looks enough concession. I'd post a pic of myself for all to see if this weren't the internet.

 

And no, its apparently not within my powers to make this all better. I've tried feeling comfortable in my own skin, I've tried being positive and being myself, I've tried all of the bullshit advice that uninvested people like you so easily throw my way. I've fucking tried it. But you'll never believe that. To you, it's all got to do with my attitude and no one could ever possibly dislike someone for their atrocious looks. This is what pisses me off about people who are not affected by poor genes. If only you could fucking try it for a day.

You picked a girl that didn't reciprocate your interest; that happens to everybody.

Which has been every single girl I've come across in my life. Its not just one point of data I'm judging the whole thing on. Its hundreds of independent, mutually-confirming points of data. The evidence is unassailable from my perspective.

 

Plus, its not just the reaction from girls I'm judging by, its everyone. Its known and agreed that I'm ugly and weird. I use the word "freak" because I think it best describes and portrays the essence of what I look like and what my whole person is like. Its just known from the get go that I'm undesirable and unworthy of the time of day. That's how its always been.

There's this girl in my class I like, and I tried to befriend her, but she wasn't interested. Maybe I should consider my innate evolutionary circumstances as an undesirable a blessing. Relationships seem more bad than good. I'm not so much upset for not having the love and companionship as I am for just having no one interested in me. I'm not really interested in the strict, dogmatic, "happily ever after" companionship bullshit. I would just like to have some girls WANT to be with me. I'd obviously like to bed a few of them. But mostly I'd like to know what its like to be like the other guys, to have girls flirt with me, to show interest in me. I've never met another guy in my life who had my problems. Every guy I've ever met (without exception) got attention from at least some girls. It has never and will never happen for me. I'm convinced this is an absolute.

Also trying to discuss/review with other students may help. By explaining things to each other sometimes tricky bits "click" at some point.

Desire, motivation, and interest are waning significantly at this point. Material is getting too hard.

This really isn't the discussion I had hoped for. One where people just claim a concensus has already resolved the matter followed by no definitive support but loads of demands.

What do you expect us to do? The only thing most of us can do is read what the experts have written and talk about what has been said on the subject. Do you want us to go dig up some new evidence so we can talk about it on the thread? There is no real evidence of Jesus' existence that is extra-biblical or non-textual. My opinion (which I'm not confident in) is that there was a historical Jesus. This is based on what I perceive as a relatively high number of experts who agree that this is most likely the case.

 

I also never claimed the concensus was a matter of fact. I said I was not very firm in my position, so I'd like it if the people of this forum would try to stop ascribing positions, intent, and motivations to me that don't exist. I'm not a biblical or antiquity scholar, so I cannot really say much on this topic other than my rather uninformed opinion (which I guess means that I should probably stop contributing to this thread).

Right, this thread was start to explore the evidence and not just "accept" a concensus. While it may be a the majority opinion few scholars have actually done peer reveiwed work on the issue and amongst them there is various amounts of disagreement.

The only thing we can really do is look at the concensus in scholarship, see their points, and talk about whether or not we find them compelling. I should be clear that I don't unequivocally accept this concensus, its just my opinion that many experts think its likey, and that happens to be my opinion too. That's really all We can do. There isn't really much forthcoming evidence there, so what evidence are we going to weigh and discuss? I'm not a physicists or a biologist, so I can only really look at what the concensus is, try to understand it, see what their evidence is, and either accept it or reject it. Not many of us have the expertise to interpret or understand antique scritpures and cultres and form conclusions on these existential questions, so this entire thread must therefore be predicated on talking about what the experts have said, what their reasons are, and what our opinions about them are. That's all we can really do. That is, unless you've got some evidence to bring to the table that we can discuss.

I honestly started this thread hoping the case was stronger than I understood it to be. That the presumption that Jesus was most likely a real person was support by evidence I simple had yet to learn. Instead no new evidence, nothing that wasn't addressed in the material covered in the OP, has been presented. Just confident opinions based on the opinions of others whom themselves are merely accepting the opnions of others and so on.

 

I respect that you have a specific opnion but there hasn't been anything contained in your posts create a reasonably high likelihood that your opinion is correct. I understand that as a matter of culture and societal norms Jesus is beleive to have been a person. Many in this discussion (not necessarily or only you) have used that as anecdotal evidence and repositioned repositioned this debate so that Jesus as a flesh and blolod person must be disproved or otherwise accepted. That line of discussion simply has not been useful.

I only tacitly accept what I believe is a concensus in the antiquity scholar community. My opinion is that it doesn't really matter if Jesus existed or not. The only importance I can see it having is to aid us in understanding history, religion, anthropology, culture, etc. There may be some benefits to exploring the topic, but overall, I'm much more concerned with the natural sciences, understanding our origins, the cosmos, etc. I'm an atheist, as I feel every good reasoned thinker should be, and I accept the likelihood that a person existed in the first century who served as the inspiration for the Biblical Jesus. I'm agnostic to this, and don't hold this position with certainty at all. My level of concern for it is relatively low compared to ofher topics.

 

 

After 37 pages of discussion of the scarcity of evidence for his existence, this is a particularly unhelpful comment.

A useless comment which may just be a reasonable statement to make IMO. Still, one can be correct without knowing why they are correct. Does that mean they're unjustified?

I will probably never finish my undergraduate degree. The courses and material are just gradually getting too difficult for my small brain.

 

I'm not sure I agree with this. I would say that a scientist is a person striving to expand human knowledge of nature, while an engineer is a person who strives to put that knowledge to work. The scientific method has been shown to be an essential tool or process, used by scientist, to expand human knowledge. Engineers also use the scientific method, but generally do so to insure a proper application of knowledge obtained by scientists.

All I know is that I'll never be either of them.

Elon Musk is trying to colonize Mars. I'm pretty sure Mars has never heard of Jesus or Mohammed. You could get a ticket there when its available if you've got a few tens of billions of dollars. I doubt the people who would want to go there would be hardcore religious types.

There's a quote by Danel Dennett that goes, "there's no polite way to tell someone they've committed their life to a folly." I think this is definitely true. Religion is one of the only subjects wherein criticizing it can lead to hard feelings and sometimes severed relationships (or even violence in some cases). People are usually fine with someone criticizing their beliefs on virtually anything else. Religion is usually held in special regard from other beliefs. It sucks, it is a needless ill on the human species, it is a detriment to human flourishing and progress, and I wish there were something that could be done about this, but there isn't much. I firmly believe that atheists should support the idea of being tolerant of the beliefs of others and not use coercive methods to force beliefs on people (or out of people). We'll let the religious fundamentalists handle that kind of ridiculous behavior and keep the moral high ground. Having said this, things are getting better on that front.

 

There are many great people out there fighting this fight of ideas like Dawkins and others. The world has changed alot since many of these prominent atheists starting writing their books, and since atheism started becoming more known and recognized. We are seeing the world enter the beginning stages of shedding religion I think. Its not going to be a smooth transition. There will be pushback for quite some time. But I believe in the next 100-200 years we will see a world wherein far fewer people are religious, and those who are are still secular and liberal

 

I understand how hard it is being an atheist and freethinker whilst being surrounded by religious people. I live in the south and EVERYONE is Christian. The only atheists I know are one high school friend who is now moved away, and my brother in law who is from Chicago (and I'm the only one who knows he's an atheist). It sucks, I know. Its a crying shame that the people who think and speak reasonably have to watch what they say and how they act around the people with delusions who believe in the adult version of Santa Claus. The only thing we can do is start coming out of our closets, declaring ourselves as proud atheists, and ending the stigmas and negativity (like most other minorities had to do at some point).

 

I know this probably wasn't much help for you and your situation. I hope maybe some day you and your dad can sit down and have a good discussion about these things. If not, don't worry about it so much. Just live your life. My parents and everyone I know are all religious too. I came out as atheist, I have no problems letting people know this, and if they have a problem with it, that's their own ignorance and bigotry.

This isn't an election about ideas or policies or personalities. It's about which jersey you wear, which tribe you're in.

100%

"someone on the left" is just as subject to predetermined conclusions, denying the facts as anybody else.

yep

Seriously disabled was wrong when he said it's a fact that god doesn't exist. That's a fact. I don't believe in gods. Pretty sure they don't exist anywhere outside of people's imaginations, writings, and related culture, but he's simply wrong to assert nonexistence as a fact. It's not.

+1 but I have no problem saying it. I say it like I'd say "there are no fairies."

Where are some areas where one can work as a scientist as their profession that is outside of the typical tenured professorship at a research university?

 

One thing I've been interested in is working for something like a matural history museum or something of that nature. What would a scientist do there if one were to he employed there?

 

What are some other options for scientists who want to do science for a living that is outside of being a professor at a university?

Everyone who uses the scientific method to uncover truth is a scientist by definition. Being an actual scientist as a profession is a different thing.

 

To the best of my understanding, your assumptions are pretty much generally correct. Engineering typically offers more promise in having employment and earning potential for more people who choose that field. Becoming a research scientist who is successful (which I believe pretty much entails obtaining tenured professorship at a research university) is not a very promising field for most I don't believe. This is because its not easy going out and researching new phenomena and/or building on knowledge that has already been established. I think that there are some people who make the transition from engineering or computer science programs to doing phds in natural sciences like physics or biology.

 

As far as having to have a phd in order to be a scientist as a profession, I'm not totally for sure on that one. I'm wanting to say that its not necessarily a requirement. If you can do that type of research on a bachelor's or master's level, then there's no problem with you doing so. Ideas are correct or incorrect on their own merits and the credentials of the person presenting them have zero to do with their validity or soundness. If Einstein had never stepped foot inside a classroom his entire life, his ideas would have been exactly as sound as they were with his level of education and not a touch less. But the honest truth is, most people require going through all of that education in order to be prepared to do research on that level. You may be the dispensation to that rule.

 

For me, I'm currently working on my bachelor's in computer science, but I'm also looking into possible pursuing a phd in some type of neuroscience-related field some day.

 

Don't take my words and the word of God. I'm still learning myself. There are many more people here more equipped to answer this question than me.

I used to obsess over that stuff and take all the online IQ tests and looked at things that attempted to approximate IQ by SAT scores and things like that. In truth, though, I have no idea what my IQ is because I've never sat for a pro tired test, and frankly, I don't really care. It's just a number. It doesn't mean anything.

 

How you score on a test of any kind of talent or ability matters far less than what you use that ability for. You could be the smartest person in the world, but if all you use it for is to sit at home on the couch posting about how you have a super high IQ, then good for but that's not really very impressive. Likewise, if you do truly brilliant work in any field of human endeavor, nobody is going to care what number you got on an intelligence test.

 

Internet IQ tests are for eggheads what standing in front of a mirror and flexing is for meatheads.

Sounds kind of like a straw man though, because you're only addressing a couple of aspects of this problem. I personally struggle with the effects having learning issues and a lower IQ score. It does affect one's ability to have any kind of real potential for anything. I notice it in myself and I notice it in others as well. There are many times I'm overwhelmed with material that most people have no problem with. I can only really speak for myself, and I can see that there are some very profound limits to my learning capabilities. I've tried every which way to avoid facing this reality, but at the end of the day I cannot stand to suppress or deny facts to comfort myself, I love to deal with them head on. I think there is definitely something to be said about using logic and reasoning tests to measure one's reasoning abilities and intelligence level. It provides the empirical data that should be expected if someone is smarter or if someone is less smart. The number does matter. Data matters.

Two rednecks decide they want to better themselves by getting a college education, so they decide to apply to their local community college. They schedule a meeting with an adviser to see what classes they will have to take. Upon arriving at the adviser's office, the first redneck goes in for his appointment, while the other redneck waits outside:

 

Adviser: Well, it looks like I've got your first handful of classes right here. You'll need to take an algebra course, an English course, and a logic course.

 

Redneck: Wha...wha...what's logic???

 

 

The adviser pauses for a second, trying to think of a way to explain logic in a way that the redneck could relate to. Then he finally thinks of the right words and says:

 

 

Adviser: Well, let me explain it to you this way.....Do you own a weed-eater?

 

Redneck: Well, yeah.

 

Adviser: Okay, well since you own a weed-eater, I can use logic to assume that you likely own a yard, right?

 

Redneck: Yeah, oh yeah, I see what you're getting at.

 

Adviser: And if you own a yard, logic tells me that you likely own a house. And if you own a house, logic tells me you likely have a family. And if you have a family, logic tells me you have a wife, and if you have a wife, logic tells me you are heterosexual, right?

 

Redneck: Yes yes, that's really cool! I can't wait for this logic class!

 

 

The redneck exits the advisers office to the waiting room where his other redneck friend is waiting for his appointment. His redneck friend gets up and asks him:

 

 

Other Redneck: Well, what classes you got?

 

Redneck: I gotta take this neat logic class.

 

Other Redneck: Wha..wha...what's logic?

 

Redneck: Well, let me explain it to you this way.....Do you own a weed-eater?

 

Other Redneck: Um.....no.

 

Redneck: You must be queer then.