Tampitump

What do expect from a total hack like WLC?

I just wanted to express my heartfelt apology to the members of the forum. I was on suspension for a year for very indecent behavior. I hope I can rejoin your community once again.

Zealotry is what I have been taught. The bombastic, combative, and offensive style I've become so well-known for on this forum is a product of the fundamentalism of the redneck culture I was raised in. I guess instead of getting banned or creating complicated passwords, I could just return to drinking beer, shootin' guns, and watching monster trucks like before.

 

 

1. I never said that. So that is just a silly straw man argument.

 

2. More anecdotes? What is wrong wth you?

 

3. Malala? You mean the case of a devout Muslim girl being attacked by political extremists? Yes, I suppose that has something to do wth religion. (Note: sarcasm; to show how silly using anecdotes to make a point is.)

 

4. So those decades of trouble between Catholics and Protestants in Northern Ireland has nothing to do with religion?

 

5. The killings of Palestinians by Jews has nothing to do with religion?

 

6. The fact that Judaism has by far the word Peace Index in the data provided by Prometheus has nothing to do with religion?

 

7. The Crusades never happened?

 

 

Tell the families of the thousands killed and injured that it was just "passive aggressive". I'm sure they will be greatly relieved.

Now you're talking! Congrats bud!

I don't have much of a position because I haven't seen much data. But as the overwhelming majority of religious people are not terrorists and do not commit atrocities, I can't see it is a major factor in those things

So you think religion wasn't a major factor in 9/11, or the Orlando shootings, or Charlie Hebdo, or Malala Yousafzai's shooting? Christianity doesn't have a doctrine of Jihad, nor does Judaism, but Islam does. The particular types of actions each of these cultures tend to commit align very well with their respective religions. Suicide bombing is pretty much exclusively Islamic (with the exception of a couple of brief instances from others like Tamil Tigers), while the worst you're going to get out of Christianity for the most part is Westboro, redneck culture, and the various asinine bullshit the Catholic Church does. It seems rather painfully obvious to me that the religion is there for any zealot who wants to follow its tenets to the letter. Thus, from Christianity, one should expect a fundamentalist to be staunchly anti-gay, anti-abortion, and bigoted against people of other cultures/tribes, but not necessarily violent or aggressive. By the same token, one should expect the more fundamentalist Muslims to either commit or support terrorism, since martyrdom is supported by their doctrine. Thus, you have many instances of terrorism being committed by muslims. That's not to say that Christians have never committed terrorism, but in the past century or so, it has not been of the same scale or style. Their terrorism has been "passive aggressive", which should be expected if you follow the doctrine of Christianity. For instance, Christianity supported the anti-semitism of the National Socialist regime under Hitler.

 

Btw, in a different thread I provided Pew stats of Muslim opinions from several top Muslim-majority nations on things like what the punishments for apostasy, blasphemy, theft, and others should be. The results were terrifying. Overwhelming percentages in favor of stoning as the official punishment for adultery, corporal punishment like cutting off hands for crimes like theft, and death penalty for apostates. http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/

 

But of course when I shared this everyone was like, "That's not evidence, blah blu blah blah blah...". Well, if that doesn't count as evidence, what the fuck does?

Can't see why. The behaviour you were so proud of is textbook trolling. And clearly you don't care about anyone else's feelings but your own.

Well, it was sarcasm. But I agree. The behavior was regrettable. I'm kind of conflicted over it. I started going down that trajectory, and out of a sort of pride, I kept up with it because I didn't want to admit fault. But now I'm kind of over that.

 

If you'll give me one more chance Strange, I'd like to know what your position is regarding the extent of religion's influence on atrocity, terrorism, ignorance, etc. My position is that it is very high. I happen to live in a very religious part of the world, so perhaps that skews my perception. I'm just interested to know what your position actually is. That is, if you don't mind reiterating it to me at this point.

I've kinda been punking you guys this whole time. Don't get me wrong, I still hold to most of what I've said here, but the arrogant and combative antics I've displayed have all been good fun for me. I'm sorry if I've been offensive, its just funny to me.

Contrary to the advice of Newton, the concept of tact is completely lost on me.

Sophistry and hubris is all I know. Its far too much fun to utilize the middle finger, rather than the cognitive aspects of the nervous system.

 

Unfortunately it is this kind of hyperbole and appeal to emotion that I have come to expect from so many people now. Someone disagreeing with you is not a personal attack and you should not take it that way. Logical, evidence based debate is what we do here. You needn't respond with straw-men and appeals to emotion.

Your political-correctness throws those suffering under these doctrines under the bus and exonerates those who carry out its tenets. There is a smoking gun in the room, and the smoke is thicker than molasses. Yet you would rather sit around with your so-called "logic" and try to find every other reason to explain away these atrocities as anything other than the consequences of genuine belief in religious precepts. If not for the religious prescription to do so, why would people oppose things like same-sex marriage, or deny well-understood scientific facts? What other motivation would there be for this? It is peculiar how most people embrace science on matters that do not directly conflict with their religious worldview, but they vehemently oppose the sciences that do (i.e. evolution). What other support is there for things like Jihad? Why would such staggering amounts of young men commit suicide attacks on innocent people if they were not indoctrinated by a religious ideology that tells them it's a noble thing to do, and that there will be subsequent rewards for them afterwards? Why would women be forced at the threat of corporal punishment to cover their entire bodies? Why would Jews, Christians, and apostates merit the label "infidel" and be the subject of ISIS' mission to destroy the west? Do you not realize that in Islamic doctrine war with the infidel forces is the key to bringing on armageddon? These religious doctrines are overflowing with homophobia, sexism, and genocidal hatred.

 

What geopolitical issue makes men in the Middle East get up in the morning and think, "You know what, I think I feel like throwing a gay person from the rooftop today"?

 

Your position is grotesque. It is offensive to anybody with a basic sense of reason and logic. It is offensive to the people who suffer daily under these oppressive prescriptions. Just simply asking these people why they are doing what they do will reveal that they truly believe in the doctrines that influence their behavior. Just go read what is written in the Dabiq.

 

Denying the link between doctrine and terrorism is just about one of the most asinine positions you can hold. Its like denying the link between smoking and lung cancer. Find me another culture where suicide attacks are a problem. I bet either 1) You won't be able to, or 2) If you can, its probably linked to religious dogma in some way. The kamikazes and Tamil Tigers are not comparable to Islamic terrorism because these things only occurred for a brief period. They were not a recurring threat. Now that we've had 9/11 and the many subsequent attacks around the world, it is safe to say that we are dealing with influence of a genocidal religious ideology. And ISIS is not the only offender. Its the illiberal beliefs and practices of these cultures in general that persecute people by the millions every single day.

I think Itoero, koti, and myself have all learned a valuable lesson here that we should recognize and apologize for immediately, and that's that things like suicide bombings, beheadings, subjugation of women, anti-semitism, and other atrocious offenses to humanity have nothing to do with religious ideology, and that we are all in fact bigots for thinking otherwise. When a person yells "Allah Akbar" before detonating themselves and other innocent people, there's no way that behavior can be linked back to the doctrines of Islam. When people in the United States push to remove marriage equality, that's in no way related to Christianity. Its absurd and bigoted of us to worry about these things because there is obviously no link whatsoever between the belief systems these people claim to embrace and their actions. We should all let go of the obvious hate in our hearts and be tolerant of these people and their beliefs as they've always been of us and ours. I apologize for being such a hateful bigot. I love these belief systems so much now that I think I'm going to convert back to Christianity. I just love how inclusive and non-divisive it is. Maybe I'll become a muslim. Islam is even better. It is the ultimate deterrent of terrorism and genocidal hate. Christianity is also the most enlightening doctrine and is the ultimate source of truth about the cosmos and all other facts. It is also the biggest deterrent of homophobia, sexism, and ignorance. I pray that God will forgive me for how intolerant, hateful, and blind I've been for so long.

Is belief in God without proving its existence a conspiracy theory? Nearly all believe in God. People have denied the existence of God by arguments that are flimsy. Should I continue believing in God though I have reached a stage of no return?

I don't think beliefs are something you choose. You're either convinced of something, or you're not. I think there is far too much importance put on the God claim, as if if mattered any more than bigfoot or fairies. People do not find it difficult or uncomfortable to disbelieve in these things because, unlike God, they weren't raised with emotional attachments to them. I think this is why people can't let the God concept go, despite how unlikely and antiquated the concept is. They simply have a need to believe that supersedes straining credulity.

I would like to apologize to dimreepr & -Rick- for the insults. I will try to practice some civility from here on.

 

I'm just an asshole plain and simple.

 

Do you really feel like insulting people is any way to make yourself come across as anything apart from autistic and angry?

 

 

You're right. Dimreepr is correct that I, personally, am a bad person. I'm objecting to his position that any misgivings about the religious and their ways is somehow "intolerant and hateful". THEY are intolerant and hateful.

 

oh boy good insult, I like the way you were unnecessarily aggressive and thus look like a cunt for no reason

 

read some history books before you argue that religion was not a positive force for the progression of the human race overall. Nowadays I guess it's different and it inhibits it, but certainly religious institutions in the past were a good thing.

If you want a pissing contest on who can be the most unecessarily rude and aggressive, I'm here for you.

 

Medieval Erupope - Ruled by religion. Not a single societal or scientific advancement came out of it. Except, of course that which was done in defiance of it.

 

Renaissance and Enlightenment - BOOM! progress begins. Science moves forward.

 

EDIT: I'm sorry. Don't listen to me. I apologize dimreepr for telling you to go f*** yourself. Your stupidity is just that infuriating. Its grotesque and an affront to human reason and decency. Just know that.

 

Only yourself.

Go fuck yourself.

I think that throughout history religion has had a vast unifying effect that has ultimately pushed society forward.

and you're a lobotomized fucking moron.

 

Yes I'm right, but not for these reasons.

 

 

You're right, but yet again for very different reasons

Its exactly what you've been telling me this whole time. That I have hatred and intolerance in my heart because I won't put up with what these people do, what they believe, and their never-changing, insular, ignorance and stupidity. Smiling and being tolerant in an abusive relationship is only being compliant and accepting of circumstances you don't have to accept. These people do not think. They believe God is really on their side of this game. As long as one doesn't stir up a stink about it, they see no problem with what they do. They don't stop and think, "hey, maybe what I'm doing is having a negative effect on other people." As long as no one's complaining, they're just going to keep on with their stupid motions. They don't see depriving the rights of others as a bad thing. They see it as God's will.

 

Not a goddamn thing you say is worth a fucking nickel. "You're being intolerant and hateful toward these people." Fuck you!

 

OK then, you can do nothing about it.

 

 

The only way to stop intolerance is tolerance; you win friends with bread and a smile, not a scowl and a bullet.

You're right, man. I'm such a nasty, hateful, spiteful person for having problems with the majority putting their thumb on me. I'm such a bitter and mean person for not smiling and keeping quiet while these wonderful people tell me I'm evil and try to sign my rights and the rights of others away into the law books. I'm so wrong for opposing how these people shape education and try to infringe upon scienctific research. You're right, I should just sit back and shut up, I have no right to voice an opinion. I'm just intolerant and hateful for doing so.

 

"Never be a spectator to unfairness or stupidity. Seek out argument and disputation for their own sake. The grave will supply plenty of time for silence." - C. Hitchens

Hassle in this wording makes it time-consuming to explain to you, what's meant, and how to discuss a simple three line topic! (The mental screaming does not help discussion or debate.)

 

Simply, solipsism is thought of in the way you explained it, because of all the things you can do alongside solipsism; hence, 'that is sure to exist', in your description, but you'll probably misunderstand this as well.

 

Solipsism is "ego alone", or just "ego", without liberty.

Ok, whatever you say.

Hell is solipsism. [Point A]

Heaven, metaphorically, is who visits the solipsistic, sometimes... [Point B]

Discuss either Point A or Point B or both!

Hell is solipsism? I thought solipsism was specifically the dilemma that one's own mind can be the only one that is sure to exist. I thought Hell was a fictional place in various ancient fables wherein people are sent for eternal torture in fire. Don't understand the third line. How about expanding upon what you're getting at?

Do you understand the repercussions I would face if I were to come out in my hometown? I'll give you a hint. My best friend since childhood severed our friendship overnight after I came out to him. To hell with tolerance. I'm only intolerant to intolerance. As soon as confidently declaring myself a proud atheist in my hometown without fear of paying a price in ostracism is a reality, I will continue to treat the silly cult known as Christianity with scorn, vitriol, mockery, and contempt. You're correct that there is burning hatred in my heart for this ideology, but its not hatred of the people, and it didn't originate on my side.

Oh boy. I knew when I logged on I was likely to read something ridiculous from dimreepr.

 

I would like to request that you stop calling me intolerant and hateful. I will not put up with that out of you again dimreepr, do you understand me? Do not call me that again. Yes, that is me being intolerant to your stupidity.

 

What am I supposed to do? Am I supposed to sit here in my little corner and say, "Oh yes, I just love all these wonderful and kind Christian people! I just love how they try to deprive me of rights, and try to deprive the rights of others. I just love how they think I'm going to burn for an eternity after I die, and that that's a positive and admirable belief to hold. They are so kind and so sweet and so wise. I just hate how bitter and intolerant of a person I am that I can't be just like them!"

Once again dimreepr, my invitation to you to visit the Bible Belt still extends. You've never witnessed minds so insular, so poisoned by hidebound religious teachings.

 

And you've simply got to stop asserting such nonsense. You keep claiming (without supporting evidence or argument) that religion doesn't deal in moral guidance or teaching. This has to be the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. This is like saying shower stalls are not designed to bathe in. Morality is the biggest topic religion addresses. It amazes me the amount of bold, unsupported, completely off-the-wall assertions you've thrown out.

They are non-overlapping until they are. If religion wants to say it deals with faith-related beliefs that do not manifest in the natural world, fine, no problem. Except that this is not what they do. For instance, we currently have a stigma on teaching evolution in public schools because religion literally believes that 6,000 years ago, an invisible wizard made one man out of dust and one woman out of his rib, and that was the origin of our species. Nearly every branch of science suffers because the majority of the human population cannot give up the religious ambition to curtail science, both in research and education. Undoubtedly the biggest reason people deny many scientific facts is for religious reasons. If religion would stick to metaphors and such and leave science and education alone, there would be no problem. But we have adults all around the world who refuse to give up their fairytales and imaginary friends, and adopt an evidence-based view of the natural world. I personally would have way less of a problem with religion if it would just stick with metaphor and spiritual matters and got out of the business of trying to influence popular belief about science and the natural world. Unfortunately, they are very overlapping magesteria and Gould was smoking something when he wrote his book.

Dimreepr, have you ever been to the southern United States? Judging by your words, there's no way you've ever been exposed to true religious ignorance and zealotry. I invite you to visit us here in the Bible Belt my friend. Spend some time trying to engage with people in my hometown. You'll become just like me before you leave. You'll be ready to backhand a motherfucker with pair of brass knuckles (figuratively).

 

Evidence and reason is of no concern here. Its simply not taught to these people. You ask us if we've ever tried to make change on these things. Of course we have. It's IMPOSSIBLE! There is simply NO getting through to these people. I guarantee you that winning the lottery is more likely than changing people's minds around here. Its just not going to happen.

 

There's a saying that being atheist is like being the only sober person in the car and no one will let you drive. That's exactly right. You can have no clue my friend.

Dimreepr, I'm quoting this here because you obviously didn't see it. Please read it, consider it, and think about it. You sound like a guy who has never seen true religious zealotry or ignorance in your life. You'd have a much different tone if you had.