SimonFunnell

What to you mean by baseless?

Strange asked me why I believe in Jesus.

Because this is the logo for Jesus' secret society.

Strange said "I am always fascinated why people choose to believe things that are unsupported or contradicted by the evidence." I thought he might be interested in why I choose to believe.

You can find it here also: http://204.3.136.66/visitors/main.html Go down to section 10 and have a look at the table with a lamp on. Things are arranged is such a way that the table and lamp make the iconic logo, clever! Is this not in religion now?

So are you saying there is no evidence for Jesus being God?

I will leave it here, you are passing to many judgements on me (i.e. treating me with prejudice). I am not a creationist, you are just throwing wildly untrue accusations my way. I am trying to be civil, but the conversation is not. Can I ask, why are people posting in here? What is your motivation? What are you trying to achieve with your posts exactly?

Ok, lets start at the beginning, first, what is the evidence to support the emergence of life? Why is life not emerging all the time? All the evidence suggests that each new generation came from the one before it, rather than from nothing.

That it is not possible, that life didn't 'emerge' from some primordial soup because there is no evidence to suggest that and all the evidence suggests otherwise. Taoism is not a religion.

Firstly, I must let you know that I am Taoist, not a Christian, however I do believe in the second coming of Christ and I do believe he is God, the creator of the universe. And I don't believe the heaven/hell theology. My basic belief is that the universe was not created in a big bang but is in fact spatially infinite and eternal, immortal. I also believe that the universe is quite literally heaven.

I have noticed this has been moved to religion, interesting. Can I talk about the evidence for God here?

How exactly? I have been over this several times, it is the power, or the capability, to create, for example a cell.

Ok lets break it down into even smaller chunks. Did, or did not, the universe create the first cell? It is a yes/no answer.

Well it kind of defines itself, it is the power (capability of doing or accomplishing something) to create. I am assuming the universe is capable of creating a cell. Well I will move onto the science once we have agreed a common understanding. Without a common understanding how are we to discuss things?

So if the universe created the first cell, it does by implication have creative power, because it has the power to create a cell.

Ok, lets focus on the 'creative power' bit, when I say this, I mean the power to create. I am assuming that at some point the universe 'created' life. As I understand it people don't like the word 'create'. What is the appropriate word to use instead?

Ok, lets try this, considering the following: 1 - How much creative power do natural process (excluding biological life/intelligent agents) have to create complex things. 2 - What are the limits of this creative power (i.e. what is the maximum level of complexity this creative power can give rise to). 3 - Does the complexity of the most simple cell cross this limit. Could you please critique the above in the following two ways: 1 - The language, for example rewriting the above in more appropriate language. 2 - The logic, for example if my logic is illogical please clearly explain why. Thank you.

I will be honest with you, I don't believe in creationism, however at the same time I do not believe wholly in the theory of evolution. This offers me a very unique perspective. One thing that is very clear about all the people posting here, you are all very emotionally committed to evolution. I mean the repeated attacks on me being a creationist or what not are what have caused the mess in this conversation. I am sure you are wonderful people, but the conversation is far too emotionally charged for us to make progress. Its not me, its you. So I am hoping we can just get back to the subject, i.e. the creation/emergence/whatever of life.

Cherry picking? Again, what are you on about? You do understand that I am not arguing for intelligent design? I am not trying to convince people to believe in my ideas or what not. Can I ask, if you would be so kind to oblige, why you think I am here? What do you think is motivating me? If I am honest, I now think the title of the post wasn't a particularly wise choice because what I would really like to talk about is the emergence of life.

Strange, this is exactly what I mean. Dishonest tactics? Mate, that is paranoia - baseless or excessive suspicion of the motives of others. I have no plan here, no strategy, no tactics. You are making judgements about me that are just plain wrong.

Look, I am a highly professional person and I never have conversations like this with people in person. However, when you get on the internet forums, suddenly things change. This change is part of internet culture where people are no longer looked upon as people. I will be honest with you, many of you have been really offensive towards me completely unnecessarily and I have just sat here taking it. Now I am not offended by your offensive, but I would prefer it you would take a kinder approach, as I have tried to take with you. Seriously, if I had said some of the things you have said to me, you would tell me to piss off! So please treat me with the same dignity and respect I will treat you. If you want to talk sincerely, I welcome that, otherwise please go and do something useful.

As I have previously stated I am not a creationist or intelligent design proponent. What I will say about this whole post is that its seems to be petty arguments about words rather than a discussion about the actual ideas. It is also full of emotions about how people feel about intelligent design and it is clouding peoples vision. Sorry people, I have had enough of this intensely tedious conversation. I have made repeated attempts to find common ground from which we can work and nobody has responded. I am sure you are lovely people but I think talking to people on the internet (instead of in person) has changed the way you talk to people as I am confident that this conversation in person would turn out much different. Please stop taking jabs at me as person, like I know none of you, none of you know me. Yet repeatedly people pass judgement without first understanding my case, that is prejudice. This prejudice is brought about by arrogance, that is assuming things you 'feel' to be true even though they are not. If you are sincere, then please contribute to the conversation, otherwise you are just a troll wasting everyone's time.

According to dictionary.com (http://www.dictionary.com/browse/abiogenesis?s=t) abiogenesis is defined as: The now discredited theory that living organisms can arise spontaneously from inanimate matter; spontaneous generation. ?

Alright, lets leave intelligent design/designers aside as they are not really relevant at this stage of the conversation. I will try to keep it simple. As I understand it, some people believe that at one point there was no life in the universe and that at some point life emerged. Is this correct? If it is, would someone please describe this event (the emergence of life) in plain, clear, standard scientific language. Thanks.

Dear Strange, This is no reflection upon your personally, I am in no position to judge you and you may be a wonderful human being, but I think you have completely misunderstood me. You need to pay closer attention. For instance, you seem to be under the impression my view is 'it looks complex so it must be designed'. This means that you are basically, not listening to me, not trying to engage me, you are not try to understand me, you are not talking with me, you are just talking at me. This is not a conversation. I seem to have a different opinion? You misunderstand, I don't have an opinion on the matter, only an interest it in. So when you say I have a different opinion I have really no idea what you are talking about and I am not sure you know really what you are talking about.