Syntho-sis

Last comments on this thread: I totally agree with everything mooey said. Politics is not science. It's as simple as that. I myself have been guilty of pretending this was some sort of scientific campaign or something, and I'm sorry iNow (and everyone else for that matter) for letting this become personal and letting my emotions get the best of me. I will, from now on, do my best to stay away from anything political on this forum. I will stay within the bounds of the actual science aspects of this forum. Which is why I joined in the first place. If one wants to argue politics one should join a political forum (which I have absolutely no intention of doing.) I'm here to learn from all of you, I sometimes forget that.

Pretty certain? haha that sounds like an assumption. Scientists don't make assumptions, right? I'm not going to fall into your trap either. Every time I've said anything in this thread you've done nothing but attempt to humiliate me, in order to build up your already obese ego. And my sources? Well that's something you should be aware of, it was the paper of discussion from bloomberg. The exact paper I started the discussion with. My source is there, go back and look. You think I just pull this stuff out of my butt? Is that what makes my points fallacious? I've presented numbers and quotes of highly respected business leaders and healthcare professionals. What exactly have you presented? You don't do anything, you just attempt to find holes in everybody else's argument and somehow that makes you right. Wow that's so logical.... You know, everything you say will be completely irrelevant when 20 years down the road we have another 'healthcare crisis.' I'm done with this thread..

Simply put, yes I stand by what I said. And I would appreciate it if you would stop patronizing me, you misinterpreted my post. The man may have used words such as: malpractice, insurance, and liability. But in no way did he fully address these issues. By which I mean did he propose a suitable course of action to take to fix these problems. Hopefully that clarifies my stance to some degree. Which is again: I do not think that President Obama's speech last night, fully addressed many American's concerns about this proposed plan. Specifically the issue of medical expenses. Somebody has to pay for this, we cannot cut corners either, when it comes to America's health. We can offer alternatives to visiting the doctor though, but with an aging population and a sedentary lifestyle America's healthcare bills will only continue to soar. Which means, that other projects will have to be defunded in order to pay for the increasing costs. The taxpayers can only contribute so much, and we can't indefinitely borrow from the world and be the 'richest' country at the same time. There I think that pretty much says everything I want to say.

I stand on what I said, and also his speech was irrelevant to what could potentially happen to this country in the future. All this political nonsense in becoming a whirl of emotions and feelings, it's not based off of ground economics or a thorough study of history. If it were, I don't think we would even have a "healthcare problem" to begin with.

Okay iNow let's play it your way. Since you are so much smarter than I am let's just wait and see what actually happens if this bill passes. You don't believe me now of course, but let's do as scientists do and make observations of the available evidence. Let's quit making predictions, and claiming anybody who doesn't think the same is an idiot. A year from now if this bill will have been passed you will see the effects of it in the healthcare community and the economy, whether good or bad. And perhaps you will eat your own words.. Wait and see...

Yes and unfortunately the honorable Representative Joe Wilson of South Carolina in his ignorant attempt at.....who knows...may have entirely dismantled the opposing agenda and made anyone who disagrees with the president's sentiments look like fools. I found this interesting, seems The Great One left out an important aspect of any plan on healthcare reform in his do-or-die speech last night. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aAtF5MQA.3QE Medical Liability expenses have for too long weighed anyone in medicine down...It's extremely annoying that anyone can sue for any reason when it comes to their healthcare. < That's one aspect of this plan I do agree with- but I still don't think the President has fully forged this plan from bipartisan ideas though, I'd say a majority of his 'suggestions' are coming from his side of the table. Peace

I can't believe this bloody thing is still going. I have one question... Are there any doctors on here who work for the VA? I mean really, lets compare your treatment at the VA to that of a private hospital. None of you can present evidence that would directly demonstrate that the proposed plan wouldn't just become another flawed bureaucracy. You have no evidence, because, this 'new' healthcare system has never been demonstrated before.. Except on a minor scale by the way the VA functions. I don't consider political talk or economic predictions hardcore evidence either. Fire away all ye who disagree.. Merged post follows: Consecutive posts merged This dichotomy exists because it is based on your opinionated sense of logic.. You simply listed the allegations, you did not refute them sir. If this were law school, you'd be guaranteed an F for your not only your bias but also your lack of rigor in the presentation of your argument.

Deja Vu Epileptics experience this all the time in one sense. Except their version of "seeing into the future" is caused my a memory malfunction in which memories are not processed chronologically and upon recall the fully formed memory may seem to be preceding another fully formed memory. Occasionally though, in certain species of predators, precognition is demonstrated in which the organism will predict the exact movement of it's prey and head them off. When you think about it, you are always playing out the potential future in your mind, although this is often influenced by subconscious thought, occasionally our minds will rely on past information to make accurate descriptions of an event to come. But nobody has the ability to accurately predict everything that will occur from one moment to the next.. Which is pure precognitive thought..

I disagree with this line of thinking. Specifically that accidents are a reflection of the healthcare system. For all intents and purposes we'll just call them "Acts of God," which include, but is not limited to, events outside of human control such as floods, natural disasters, motor vehicles accidents, mechanical and building failure, and so on. By definition, they are also events for which no one can be held accountable. (With certain exceptions of course such as engineer's failings to design a device with safety in mind.) So if you have 3,000 people come into the ER, and all of them have suffered severe trauma and the ER is not able to save them and they all die, that sir, cannot be held against that specific medical facility. I would not pin that down as a reflection of any healthcare system of any country, if the country happens to be in a high-accident area. They are obviously not held to the same standard as a country with a lower accident rate. In a nutshell- If a medical facility such as an ER, is in an area where accidents occur commonly (natural disasters for example) and the ER is required to treat all individuals who enter it, individual cases (in which the person dies-and the person is the victim of the said natural disaster) cannot be attributed to lack of proper medical care. Multiply this by a nation, and assign it to every country in the world and you would have a reasonable system in which to judge how effective a healthcare system really is. I'll add more later..

The Ugly: Ken Ham is an anonymous Moderator on SFN.

Coolness.. Also I googled "open source journals" I should have done that to begin with. http://www.doaj.org/

Specifically in the areas of: Medicine, Biology, Biochem, Organic Chem, Physics, and Astrophysics? I know there are several universities that post their journals and what not. (I already know about MIT's online courses.) Could you provide me with some links? I'm mostly interested in Peer-reviewed material for research papers and out of interest. Thanks

That is a very interesting observation. Although, if you notice, not every mutation a species undergoes is for the sole purpose of expanding the survivability. Perhaps it was adapted out of our higher level cognition in order to attract mates? It does make someone seem more trustworthy..thus the mate feels more at ease- offspring is secure and so on. I'll add more later..

Clocks by Coldplay That's how I came across the band...long before Viva La Vida made them big

The Good: Finally got around to reading "Origin of the Species."

Haha wow, I leave for a few hours and things go a million different directions.. I think this train got ran into the ground..Stimulating Intellectualism while it was going though.. Cheers all

70%-80% support of reform? I believe that is an exaggeration. Using second hand information will get you nowhere. Now for my sources... From the Wall Street Journal: That doesn't look like 70%-80% support to me. Now are you going to question the validity of my source..The Wall Street Journal? From what I gather, there seems to be a divide amongst Americans.. CNN Political Ticker: Hmmm...If I had to choose.. I think I'd go with the more experienced bunch, those over 50, they've been around longer. They know what works, and what doesn't work. But...but..I thought it was only the extreme conservative radical Americans who attended the town hall meetings..You know? The ones who are always yelling. Apparently normal people are interested in expressing their views also. Reuters: Have you noticed the trend in recent news reports? Support has fallen. Little by little, people are starting realize how foolish this whole scheme really is... Once again, We need reform for our healthcare system, but we do not need liberal Democrats ideas for healthcare instilled nationally... Merged post follows: Consecutive posts mergedhttp://www.rollcall.com/pdfs/healthchart072309.pdf I also like how simple this proposed plan is supposed to be... No wonder so many people are in support of it *sarcasm*

And, as I already described for you personally back in post #14, that's not relevant here. You misinterpreted my post. Very sorry for the misunderstanding. About the second question, the first part was an opinion. I was asking you to verify if my opinion was unsupported with facts, and then express your own facts so I could expand my knowledge on this issue. There has been quite a bit of opinion-sharing thus far. -I did not want to make baseless statements- so before they could be misinterpreted I let it be known it was in an opinion. Also could you please provide actual relevant sources? If you are referring to the Youtube videos, I don't consider those accurate sources. They are left open to interpretation, which could go many different ways (And it already has). Also my first question, could you please answer it? You failed to do so, perhaps this is how alot of Americans are feeling nowadays...So in one respect I can sympathize. By the way, your link was dead.

I went back and read several of your posts iNow, and am trying to understand your position on the actual healthcare reform itself. I wholly understand the disgust you expressed in your first post at the barbaric actions of some people in this country when attempting to "argue" their points. My questions are... 1) What is the motive of the citizens who disagree with "Obamacare"? Do they feel as if their politicians aren't recognizing their opinions and they feel as if they are being ignored? Or is it that they simply hate anything that liberal democrats propose and support? 2) You mentioned in your first post the 'Embarrass your Congressman' website, I agree that things like that would be used to fuel the theatrics of certain individuals who oppose "Obamacare." I'll quote what you stated about the website... "On their website, they have a section called "The Battle Plan" which includes tips like tracking congress persons itinerary, finding ways to yell and shout and draw attention, and how to video tape it so it can be shared and made to look like the country doesn't want healthcare change... Basically, to ignore the merits and focus on the theatrics." Now, my question has to do with the statement you made about such things depicting the nation being against healthcare reform (I agree with that statement also) . What evidence do you have to support the claim that most Americans actually support Obama's plan for healthcare reform? Could you please list the sources you used when you made that statement. I have the opinion that in actuality most Americans are not for "Obamacare." I have not been able to verify if this is correct or not, it is based on general observation and talking to people in everyday life. Most people I know, are not in support of specific aspects of his proposed plan. What sources do you have that can identify on a nationwide scale, the people's feelings on this plan? Please excuse any bad grammar or misspelling. Thanks,

I'd say the best policy is using your values to make decisions and set rules. The trick is finding reliable values that work for the common good of everyone.

You're not serious are you?

Cool. I guess I would consider myself a progressive moderate.. With a few more conservative leanings than liberals ones.

What could be considered "scare tactics" and "theatrics" is all a matter of opinion. If there exists a real factual basis for the argument against this new healthcare plan, then claiming it is nothing more than "whining" and "tantrums" is counterproductive and belittling to those who share different views. I agree that most Americans want healthcare reform, but I do not agree with this current legislation on the matter. From what I gather, the intent of this thread is a demonizing of anybody who does not support President Obama's plan for healthcare reform. You seem to be using extreme examples to hammer your point into the ground. Twenty years down the road it will not matter who supported what on this issue, it will only matter that some sort of reform has taken place. But the current plan will have to change drastically before I will give it my full support.

Just out of curiosity, how many people on here consider themselves.. 1. Moderates or 2. Liberals or 3. Conservatives And why do you consider yourself that?

Why waste everyone's time with huge monologues, when I can sum up my thoughts up pretty clearly with a single statement? And you're trying to say that my comments aren't relevant? Can you even refute that statement yourself? http://news.aol.com/article/official-5-plans-revamp-health-care-none/577975 There's one fellow who agrees with my statement, as un elaborated it may be...