Dr. Funkenstein

Never the less the point is valid, factual and therefore true. Your input on the other hand sounds like a monthly problem you have to deal with. Thank you anyway.

I don't dictate what deserves a thread on here or not, no more then combatants can predefine a strategy in war before the war actually takes place, that assures a victory. All wars have their particular variables in accord with the objective, at that conclusion of that objective the record of the war reveals the victor and their out flanking manuevour that brought them the victory. The United States war against Japan is a perfect example, To invade the homeland of japan and count on ground troops to win it was deemed a iffy proposition, therefore they decided to unleash the atomic age upon their enemy, a out flanking maneuvour if ever there is one.

Germany unleashes the Blitzkreig on a number of countries, none of which was their equal, all of these countries could have employed Sun Tzu tatics untill the cow jump over the moon, and it would not have made a difference, they were inherently out flanked.

The art of war has a Lowest common denominator, which is too outflank your opponet in every way possible.

@ Barfbag, you are correct. If an engagement of war is afoot by somewhat equal participants, then it stands to reason that these same participants would utilize all available advantage's or disadvantage's they could, to be victorious in the war. These advantages, ploys, plots. hit and run tactics are all in total and separately an Out flanking maneuver. The Art is merely common sense.

My intent here was not to vent against the Honorable author, Sun Tzu, I merely wanted to point out that the work does have a LCD, out flank your opponent.

Once we humans saw the Sun as a giant ball of fire, then through science we learned that it's actually a complicated sphere where fusion takes place, but in fact it is a giant ball of fire, for all intent and purpose. Or let's look at it another way, What is truth/true, the term,s by themselves have no meaning or indicates nothing, if not connected to a fact. The hit and run maneuver is a tried and "True" method in war, but the "fact" is it's simply an out flanking move.

Military academies regardless of the alligance they have to the book, doesnt change the gist of the book itself, which is to one degree or another or by one method or another or not, is to outflank your opponet. Out flank the enemys plans, out flank his alliance's, out flank his army, using the right tools for the job, outflank his walls. This is not art, this is Hannible 101.

I recently reread Sun Tzu, Art of war. The first couple of times I read it was for clarity sake, later readings, I had reduced to just acknowledging that such a book exist. Now I merely summarize the whole of the book in three (3) words, "Outflank your opponent" for all it's philosophical detail, it all comes down to those three words. One can use subterfuge, the double cross, spying, deception etc etc all you want, the bottom line and point of it all is too outflank the opponent.

First off to even have an opponent to war with, you must already be on some sort of equal terms with that opponent. logistic, troop strength, goals etc, if one is not on some sort of equal terms then the war is already lost, and you have been outflanked before you even started. Business folks use the principles in the book for shrewd business moves, generally both parties are already in the business. Terrorist claim to apply some of the teachings of the book, and little do they know it but they have already lost the war. What's a terrorist goal, to overthrow a government they have issues with, none have ever been successful in achieving that, If they were, they may soon find out that another group now have issue with them. They claim to fight for rewards in the hereafter, no surprise to any one that the rewards they are promised only count in the here and now, the physical world. What good is a bag of virgins, without the friction employed in physical sexual encounters, and if the friction is not needed in the afterlife, nor is the virgins, might as well find a coach in heaven, pull it out and holler to come, either way there is nothing to feel. Terrorist will never win the war, can't even stick their head out of the foxhole for too long, cause someone may find them and boom they are gone, they are inherently outflanked.

Having been in actual battle before, personally, I know something's about it. If after a battle you are able to recount what Jim Jones (any name) did, then you wasn't fighting, cause life and death struggles have built within them a no spectator clause, you be busy fighting, or you be dead. Sun Tzu waxes eloquently about the details of a myriad of outflanking maneuvers, all of which is reduced to out flanking your opponent. take away the words and reduce it too a boxing match between two men, the one with the better skill set, matched by determination and power to get the job done will win, the why this is , is simple, the one outflanked his opponent.

Weird, It seems as if some physic's have announced this new theory on what time-space is, ironically there space is called "special Foam", other then that it has all the same qualities as my term of special tape.

Delays due to eclipse of light travel. Roemer's observation in the particular is concise. However is not the light from the sun CONSTANT? Whatever obstruction which may delay or subvert the light, especially in one location, and not the whole body (earth), tell us only about obstructions and subversions, the constant of the light remains. So how can we say that it actually traveled. Take into account the mass of the sun, the range of it's corona, and the distance of this planet and others of this solar system, who argues that we are not within the zone of the suns influence. Therefore if the sunlight is constant, and we are within the zone of it's influence, then how do we deduce that the sunlight travels, taking 8 min 17 sec to reach earth, when sunlight is constant on earth somewhere everyday. @ Janus I will need time to investigate the remainder of your argument.

@ Sensei, My point exactly. The zone of influence (ZOI) of the suns light is in all directions. My distinction of light is based upon natural power and man made, with the distinction being on the amount of power per se. Your message is made possible by the conduit, stand on your roof and shine your flashlight in the general direction of the upper mid west. and see if it comes through then. Not trying to be funny here but your conduit is in fact the ZOI of the fiber optic transmission.

"Nullum magnum ingenum sine mixtrua dementiae fuit"

In Summary: Space appears to have one (2) qualities, 1. Low temperature, 2. Capacity (for interactions), otherwise it is inert, Until acted upon by matter. Various matters may interact amongst themselves, and then combined, have a interaction on space. This space can be allegorical to what I call "Special Tape" the special denotes space reactions to the matter interacting with it, in accord with the properties of the matter, singular or combined. Distance and volume are of no consequence, when related to space.

First allow me to state that I view light in two categories, man made and Natural light. As indistinguishable as the two type's may be at times, I make the distinction. All light being electoral magnetic radiation stems from a source. In man made light, this source is reflectors, heat, etc. etc. In natural light the source is exponential heat and a combination of combustible material. this exponential and material is my distinction.

To see a star in the night sky is the visible indication of a light source, now can we say for a fact that this light is traveling to our eye's receptors, or that our eye receptors have focused (reached) on the light. our knowledge of light travel comes from our sun and it's great distance from our planet. Math the distance over time and we relate speed of travel.

Lets assume for a minute, that the sun despite it's distance from us, that it's electoral magnetic radiation does not travel, instead our planet is within a direct zone of influence, of the source of it's (the sun) light. This directness is therefore constant within the zone of influence of the sun, It does not travel to us , we are within it. The planet rotates on it axis bringing about night and day as it rotates from darkness into day, the daylight has no travel to do since it's merely waiting for the planet to turn and there is the light. This constant light forever on one side or another shows that the planet is within a zoned range of the source of the light. the distance has zero effect, since it doesn't have to be traversed, we are in it. See the sun, take into account it's mass, and it's influence, as a result of it's mass, can we now say that it's light has traveled to us or that our planet is within the influenced area of the sun light.

Other planets within our solar system are even farther away from the sun, we know that the light from the sun reaches them, but here again no traveling is required, these planets are also within the zone of influence, but too a lesser degree. Therefore the light photons reflect on them because they are in the degreed zone of influence, as are the planets closer to the sun. The source of the light is varying as to its effect on these other planets, and that effect wans the further out one goes. not because of distance, but because of its degree of influence, distance is of no real consequence, as it pertains to light travel perhaps because light is not traveling.

For man made light a possible experiment may prove the point. Take a laser and a receptive device space the two on a straight line of miles accounting for the curvature of the surface, examine rather the light reaches the receptor, or where it along the path drops off, if there is a drop off point that would be the zone of influence of the laser, if it reaches the receptor increase the mileage.

Finally I would like to add that to measure electoral magnetic radiation from another galaxy may be folly, since we are surrounded by the same, how then can one factually know the source without connecting it to a particular event.

Light being electromagnetic radiation does not escape the vortex of a black hole, since in space all, outside of the tape, is matter. On the event horizon of the black hole, light is concentrated, this is due to the light being in close proximity to its source of heat, entering into a black hole it too is rendered moot due to the overwhelming gravitational force of the black hole. Absorption of photonic light here under this planets (earth) total interactions with it's tape, ie gravity, air pressure, magnetic etc takes on the overall quantity of earths interactions with it's tape. In space where the interactions with plain photonic light ( light without the source) the tape is flimsy, minimal interactions with. As such this light has no physics expectations to contend with.

The tape of space prevents us from feeling the heat of the furnace, the in between here and there is not void per se, but more inactive, until it's interacted upon by.....

Our sun is of a proximity where we can both feel the heat and observe the light, Uranus on the other hand gets the light, but not the heat because its point of interaction with the tape does not account for heat like our special tape (area of space) does in it's interaction's.

Question: How could the ancient Egyptians have invented/mastered geometry, independently from a teacher source? I can see how mathematics can sprout out of necessity for mankind in general.

The black hole is a tape (space) effected by interaction of tremendous gravitational influence, this force doesn't allow substance (matter) to exist in form, other then in its effect on it. The interaction of such a force on the tape makes it posses the properties we associate with black holes. A furnace outside of a observable universe, would follow the same course as one in a observable universe, the distance you allude to is a moot point, nor does it takes away from the special tape theory. If all of space was merely distance, then where would matter come from?. even if one accounts of quantum particles popping up from nothing and nowhere then disappearing or causing matter to appear, It still validates that matter's interaction with space (tape) is correct.

Light travels at great distance on the tape because of it's photonic makeup, thus the parts of space in which it travels is flimsy with minimal or no real interaction with the tape. however at the source of the light is heat (sun) and around that, the interaction with the tape is immense, and there you have a glow. So the photons of light surrounding the sun stay there in that interaction of heat and space, but other particles of the photons escape and travel, distance of space have no bearing since there interaction in the tape is non existent , further making my point of what space is. and explaining how light travels at such great speed.

Yes, but the distance of the room is of no consequence, in relation to the interaction of the matter placed in it. Place a furnace in a room of regular dimensions, the heat from the furnace affects the whole of the room. Now change the dimensions of the room to something bigger, and the heat eventually affects that distance as well, now remove the walls completely, and the heat from the furnace will affect as much of the space as it can in accord with it's matter, or the heats interaction of any other substance like a gas within the space, that combined, then interacts with the space itself. Of course the walls are mentioned to make the point, since they will conform to a particular distance, but also indicate that with the walls in place, that makes the interaction with the space even more obvious. So the space is like a special tape whose adhesiveness only comes to be, upon being interacted upon by matter.

There is indeed no consensus. And the question (What is space) contribute to the theories of Quantum Mechanics. So this basically is an inquiry of cognition, and it takes us where it goes.

Previously I agreed that a definition of space would have to encompass all of space on all levels. In an effort to give space a working definition.

The definition I gave is that:

Space is a void whose qualities are active upon interaction with matter.

By void I meant limitless. Further research have caused me to modify my definition too," Space being a limitless entity of special tape, which interaction's with matter, reveals it's special qualities". In this definition "Special" denotes a quality that is dense where interacted with, and flimsy where the interaction does not require the varying respondent density.

The structure of a atom, conforms to this. Take a atom eject a electron or add a electron, and the space around the nucleus reacts. The atmosphere around earth is made of gas's which are held in place by the gravity of the planet, could this be a interaction quality, of all the matter of earth/waves on this space tape. The space in a room seems to have the qualities of distance and volume, thus I conclude that space et al, must conform to the interaction placed upon it by the variable, otherwise it's inert, and of a special tape like substance.

My apologies, exchange microwave emissions for gravitational waves, and my use of the word void was meant to convey the word limitless space. Your points is sound. the Casimir effect requires more study, and a definition of space must indeed apply on all scales of measurement.

Upon further review I withdraw my agreement with volume and distance standing as definitions of space.

Distance: Under any strech of the imagination, fails miserbly as a definition of space. There are no point A's or B's or any reference points which would translate as range, which gives space parameters. Microwave emiission scientist clams, can be detected from the Big Bang. The mathematics ensue, stating the time frame and distance these emissions traveled into our detection, however any such equations would be inherently wrong, since with that computations, no point of orgin (exact space of BB is known) exsit. Light travels through space, but the traveling is the genesis, not the space itself. Therefore distance merely refers to travel within space, not a quality of space itself.

Universal geometry/Volume: Conceptual math to explain the unknow. As much as we rely on geometry to conceptualize phenominum, we are both corret to do so and foolish as well. correct in attempting to understand things to a particular degree, like the solar system. Foolish to then make the assumtion that our beloved math has the power to reveal everything to the bare bones. The center of this galaxy would command a curvature of space that would cancel the curvature hypothesised by the sun and this solar system in space, either way it really say's nothing about what space is, outside of our conception.

Definiton of space. A void which takes signifigance when interacted with.

Perhaps if we focus on the interaction's we may discover the substance of, if any.

Magical attributes, what? Thought and thinking is still a proven process of discovery, although sometimes i'm inclined to believe that the educated loose the basis of inquiry in their education. Space has aspects of Volume and Distance, Thank you for the information.

The terms used are acknowledged, but the fact remains, the solar system is held in place by gravity of the sun, the sun is held in place by the girth of it's mass in space, the space that holds this galaxy shows no analogy or conformity to geometric explanation. I opened the question with all of this, the question remains "what is space" not terminology or changing the rules, what is space. If defined as the home of dark matter/energy then it is of substance, if not then it has to be a thing that awakes through interaction with matter. Look here's what we know.

1. it surrounds all matter.

2. It haves no known trait of it's own, outside of it reaction to interaction with matter/energy/light....

3.It's capacity appears endless.

4. devoid of interaction it's static norm is cold.

How could such a void exist in advance of a event (big bang) that has yet to occur.

Mr. Mordred, your explanation is indeed sound. universal geometry, while giving space no particular substance, does however defer to GR on mass and gravity on space time, So Mr. Kangs depiction stands correct, and space is thereby pliable, pliability is a hallmark of substance. It seems as if space is of no account until acted upon by mass, then it becomes tangible.

To: ajb, philosophical questions are the driving force behind science, the "what is" question is paramount to understanding the phenomena. my question was scientific, I see no value in not understanding space other then how to use it, using it comes with understanding it. However maybe a answer to this question is beyond our detection.

To: Mr. Kang, Dimensional theories aside, your profile pic of the earth indenting onto space is the prevailing view that we have of space, this view depicts space as a foam type of substance that indents (warp) under the weight of the astronomical body, if this is true then the question is what is this substance, and upon further inquiry, would not the indention of the whole of the galaxy have a greater warp/indentation then a single astronomical body, Hubble has shown that galaxy's move through space in every angle possible, indentions therefore can not be obvious on flat views and non existence on angled realities.

Observations of all other space's, have a limit to what can fit into them, to a point where nothing added other, can fit in. Except astronomical space. What is this space? It seems to be a vast and endless void, where countless of solar systems can not only fit in quite comfortable, but can travel within it with relative ease. How could it be so vast that it's big enough to hold an event that hadn't taken place yet in advance, (Big bang theory). Take into account "Dark" matter/ energy which is theorized outside of traveling light being bent by it, what is it's relation to space, is it the fabric of or just another substance that popped up like we have been theorized too.