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Ten oz

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Posts posted by Ten oz

  1. Rand Paul's medical experience/education is in ophthalmology. Fauci has been working in immunosuppression for over 40's have initially started working for National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases in 1980. Paul doesn't have the background to make any claims about which unknown places (Paul himself admits he doesn't know) covid19 may have come from. In terms of discipline, experience and comprehension of data Fauci is the one in a position to set the odds.

  2. On 4/13/2021 at 5:08 PM, Moontanman said:

    Some members of the science community pretty much poo pooed the entire idea out of hand which I always thought was somewhat less than scientific. Many scientists from this group participated in ridiculing anyone who suggested otherwise. 

    Criticizing the scientific community broadly does not lend any credibility to J. Allen Hynek. Proof of alien life on Earth needs to exist on its own merits. Being skeptical of individuals is not evidence of anything.

  3. 14 minutes ago, ScienceNostalgia101 said:

    But the point wasn't about how high fast food wages "needed" to be, it was about how high they "could" be. If fast food companies, after all their other expenditures, can still afford to pay $15/hr and still turn a profit in Sweden, they can do so in the USA. Being on the other side of the Atlantic doesn't change the way the same fast food company's food is made.

    What businesses can and cannot afford to pay people seems to monopolizes wage discussions in the media. Some point to wealthy people owning $100 million estates as proof there is plenty of money to go around while other insist the cost of higher wages will seemly be passed on to consumers. Such discussion ignores other key factors. Three of those factors that come to my mind are: Govt's cost, impact of economy as a whole, competitiveness among the market place.

    Govt costs. The more one earns the more taxes they pay. Not merely federal income and Soc Sec but local taxes as well. People who earn more also generally tend to spend more and numerous taxes are attached to consumption. So govts from local municipalities up benefit from residents who earn more money. With the right leadership that can translates into better infrastructure, public education, policing, parks, etc. On the flip side low income residents are very expensive for govts. Lower income residents are less like to invest in the community, more likely to require public assistance services, etc. Every business with low watch employees whom need govt assisted food, house, healthcare, etc programs is basically using those govt programs to supplement their (businesses) low pay.

    Impact on the economy. Consumer Spending is 70% of GDP in the U.S.. That is why stimulus is so broadly accepted across party lines. Both major parties engage in various types of stimulus packages whenever the economy slows. People having money to spend, even if that money creates debt, is the most reliable way to lift the economy. Having enough to buy homes, cars, clothes, dine out, etc spurs economic growth. The same Restaurant that may not want to pay their employees $15hr would arguable have more costumers overall if everyone in their community made at least $15hr.

    Competitiveness among the market place. By favoring business cost related arguments over those of voters Politicians run the risk artificially subsidizing a non-competitive business at the expense of their constituents. The govt has a role in ensuring markets are fair helping the economy where they can. Propping up certain business over others or the will voters isn't that role. In a market place where residents support and vote to have $15hr business unable to compete at that salary point will be replaced by ones who can in theory. Especially if consumer spending grows along with the increase in wages.

  4. 8 minutes ago, iNow said:

    Sometimes humans take their own lives for that very same reason, whether that illness be mental or untreatable.

    Hope all is well on your end ✌️

    All is well. I just spend a whole lot of time out of internet service range as of late due to work.

  5. 9 hours ago, ScienceNostalgia101 said:

    For most of history, teenagers were treated as adults, and they responded by acting like adults.

    History is a poor standard when considering legality or ethics in today's society. 30yr old men marrying 12yr girls is a historical norm for example. My understanding is that teenagers not yet having fully form brains is a consideration in the leniency. That teenagers do not have does yet poses the mental ability, even relative to their adult selves, to understand their actions thoroughly. In my opinion finding reason to rehabilitate people is more useful than find reasons to lock people in prison for longer periods of time. Rehabilitating child is simple easier politically.

  6. On 2/18/2021 at 9:29 AM, iNow said:

    Does the conversation change at all if we include nonhuman animals taking their own lives? I'm thinking of beached whales and the like...

    I am not well read on the science behind why whales beach themselves. I have loosely read and heard that it is or can be related to illness.

  7. On 2/13/2021 at 5:33 PM, J.C.MacSwell said:

    Well. At least it's over. Bad as he may be, there are more important matters for lawmakers to focus on than Tump


    I don't entirely agree. Fixing the weaknesses in our (USA's) Republic that enabled Trump to exist is very important. More will follow in behind the doors Trump kicked down just as Trump followed in behind the work done by those who came before him. Holding Trump accountable and defining his criminality in court will set the precedence for the future politicians. Doing nothing in the name of looking forward is what the nation did after Watergate, Iran-Contra, Iraq invasion/fake intel, etc. Things have only gotten worse.

  8. Protesters at BLM events who committed felonious acts have been prosecuted for those crimes. To my knowledge no participants in BLM protests who can be identified have been allowed to get away with felonious acts. Nor am I aware of any govt officials arguing they (BLM protest participants) should be allowed to get away with felonious acts. So I see no useful/logical whataboutism comparison between BLM protests and the Capital Assault. Those who committed serious crimes and can be identified should be prosecuted. No double standard exists.

    The difference between the two and the reason I suspect people attempt to make the comparison is that with the capital assault platforms and groups are being called out in addition to just individuals. That exists because of the coordination and planning that was in place. During BLM protests there is no evidence that groups communicating via twitter, facebook, with govt officials, candidates for office, or etc conspired in advance to loot a specific RiteAid or burn down a particular Wendy's. All evidence indicates the BLM protest violence has been spontaneous. Evidence from the Capital Assault tells a different story. Also sedition and conspiring to murder govt officials are entirely different criminal offenses than are vandalism and assault. One should expect to see different investigations follow. 

  9. I don't personally view this question in terms of ethics or morality. I think under normal circumstances life always seeks to perpetuate life. IMO suicide is abnormal. It exists when there is an other than typical circumstance like an illness or disorder. I see it as beyond individual control (choice) which is why I do not apply morality and ethics to it.

  10. @MigL the proverbial genie being out of the bottle is a point often made when discussing how far new tech, processes, behaviors, or etc might go from a concerned point of view. While it may be true it lacks degree. Nuclear weapons were last (and only) used in 1945. Efforts to prevent proliferation have been more successful than most reasonable person would have guessed they could be when they began 70yrs ago. of course the cat is out the bag and more nations will obtain nuclear weapons and time Marches. That said future wars will most likely be cyber and the usefulness of Nuclear weapons is actually diminishing. Only time will tell but its possible we've already crested the peak concerning Nuclear weapons and are on the backside of the mountain. Militarily cyber provides more bang for the buck. In which case proliferation efforts kept keep nuclear weapons scarce enough (less nations with them) long enough.

    Efforts regarding gene editing might be able to do the same. Prevent wide spread editing long enough that our understanding of the down stream consequences catch up.


    *the morality of various discussion made in the name of preventing nuclear proliferation can be debated at length. Poor execution and bad faith behavior weasel there way into everything.

  11. Trump losing the popular vote by 7 million is even more significant considering the investment Republicans have made in voter suppression. Thousands of polling locations have been closed, new registration laws instituted, new deadlines, ballots designed to confuse, etc, etc. In the past Republicans hid their efforts but in the months leading up to this election were brazen about their desire to prevent people from voting. Despite the carefully imposed inconveniences Biden received 7 million more votes. I think it is obvious the number would have easily been in the double digits if elections were manage in good faith. Trump won NC by a percent and Texas by just 5.5%. Both potentially would've been Biden's if not for disenfranchisement.


    I keep seeing people discuss that we (USA) is a divided nation and implying we are split equally but that isn't true. Democrats have won the popular vote in 7 of the last 8 general elections. won the popular vote by millions that last 4 straight general election. The majority of the nation has a preference.

  12. @CharonY It seems we have some of the same concerns. It isn't trivial but it is being attempted . We are in the early dawn. The reasons to encourage and push ever further ahead are powerful ones. What parent wouldn't want to ensure their child would be born without a life threatening genetic condition. I am not comfortable with it but ever I would be desperate for such assurance if it existed.

    Problem of course is things never stay as intended and all value is relative. What starts as preventing babies from being born with cancer quickly becomes parents selecting the gender, hair color, etc of their children. certainly there would be far more paying customers for the superficial than the rare genetic disorder.

    I have come to view it as unethical for people to make any permanent long term (greater than a lifetime) changes to the ecology. Whether its making land uninhabitable with radioactive waste or manipulating germline DNA I don't think humans are capable of making the needed calculations for the future that will exist far beyond our own.



  13. Trump cannot pardon state charges. Only federal ones. Trump also cannot pardon himself from future civil suits. Trump have been manipulating the true value of his assets for decades. Trump has defrauded numerous investors. Once Trump's financials are fully turned over to Courts in NY and interested parties can petition to see them Trump will be in big trouble. Suits will come in from states across the nation where Trump has done business: FL, NJ, NY, NV, FL, etc.

  14. I recently watched a Netflix Documentary called Human Nature which discusses how CRISPR is being used and could be further used to edit human genes. I found many of the ethical questions raised difficult to parse. I also found the prospect of the human genome being possibly polluted with superficial edits made out of vanity, bias, or per ignorance terrifying.

    I put this in speculation to open the discussion up to include peoples hopes, fears, ethical concerns,  etc are for human gene editing.

  15. 5 hours ago, John Cuthber said:

    What really worries me is that if he dies the Republicans can run a campaign  that essentially says 
    "Anything you liked about the last 4 years is down to Republican policies and we will keep doing it; anything you didn't like was Mr Trump's personal policy so we won't do that again"

    Nobody will notice that, Republican policy was, actually, to support trump.

    On the other hand, perhaps the Democrats should be chanting " Built no wall!"

    Trump was elected largely on one issue- that wall; paid for by Mexico.
    No wall, not a single Peso from the Mexicans.

    The Dems should be rubbing his nose in that fact.

    I view this as inevitable. Just like with Bush. Trump, a Republican, literally attacked Hillary Clinton over the Iraq War. In just 8yrs (08'-16') Republicans were already blaming Democrats for the Iraq War, Patriot Act, etc. It is just what they do.

  16. On 9/11/2020 at 11:56 PM, drumbo said:

    Many aspects of our society are harmful to stupid people.

    You are treating Stupid as an objective measurement. A quick macro view of the world reveals that human technological 'progress' has come at the expense of the stability of the planets environment. Humans have ushered in a mass extinction, Holocene Extinction. Subjectively humans are bad for the planet. That relationship doesn't seem 'smart' yet nearly every 'smart' person who has ever lived has contributed to it.

    Often who we consider stupid vs smart comes down to what we value. Many rich people assume all poor people are stupid or fitness minded people with sculpted bodies think fat people are stupid. Those who greatly value literacy might consider illiterate people stupid. Yet humans as a whole have been illiterate as species for the overwhelming majority of our species existence. Paradoxically language in both spoken and written form was created by illiterate people.

    On 9/11/2020 at 11:56 PM, drumbo said:

    If you cannot get good grades in school you are unlikely to get the education credentials you need to make a decent living. Even if you manage to get a decent degree you are still faced with the challenge of not coming across as a troglodyte during job interviews, and actually performing well if you are hired. In 21st century Western countries almost all of us have had decent nutrition and ample opportunities to acquire knowledge and cultivate our minds, and therefore most of the variation in how smart we are relative to each other is determined by our innate design which we had no control over. Should we accept that stupid people are not responsible for their deficits, and start giving them money so that they can be happy?

    Most successful businesses are ones which best simplify their process. The most successful business are NOT necessarily ones which make the best products. McDonald's doesn't make the world's best Hamburger. Most average person in western society can make a better hamburger for themselves. McDonald's perfected the process. McDonald's sells speed and convenience. The food itself is the cheapest low graded crap legal to sell for consumption.

    There is a relationship between simplified processes and business success. That includes what a business needs from an employee. The more training and education required from employees to keep a business operational the harder time a business will have staying operation. Successful businesses are full of dumb down jobs anyone can do. It improves efficiency by making workers easy to find, employees interchangeable, and limits overreliance on individuals. How traditionally educated the population is above a relative standard doesn't impact GDP. There is not a direct correlation between nations with highest per capita GDP and nations with most traditionally educated populaces.

    In my opinion education in Western nations mostly serves a means of shaping a class based structure for society. Western nations have ethically grown out of segregating people into economic classes by things beyond an individuals ability to control like race, height, surname, hair color, etc. So we lean on education. It s viewed as something individuals can choose. In truth though I think the vast majority of jobs in westerner society could be performed by all average members of society. Nearly all jobs are dummy proof, come with have clear instructions. I make what I consider to be a good living. I own my home, have money saved, own lots of nice things, etc. If I step away from my ego and honestly just look at what I'm paid to do the truth is 90% of the population in the U.S. (where I live) could do my job with a reasonable amount of on the job training.

    Anecdotally there is no delineation between how well my highly educated friends vs uneducated friends are able to assemble IKEA furniture, learn the features on their smartphones, use apps, or safely drive a car.

  17. 2 hours ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

    "It was a big sick. a very very big sick. Doctors, specialists in the field and I'm talking about the very best, said anyone else would have died and died quickly. They were amazed how quickly I got over it. Very amazed."

    Id imagine he'd love having a large rock moved to the front entrance of the White House so he can roll it to the side and emerge.

    5 hours ago, Area54 said:

    What do you suppose would be the likely impact upon the election result?

    It has to hurt Trump's approval. This is a crisis of hist absolute own creation. The nation has seen Trump mock journalists at briefings and Biden during the debate for wearing masks. Trump's own family defied the rules during the debate went mask-less. Trump clearly exercised poor judgement. If isn't something the left can be blamed or whatever. Trump did this to himself.

    5 hours ago, Area54 said:

    If the condition were to prove fatal for him before the election how would that be handled? Can the Republicans select another candidate? Would Pence automatically step-up? How would ballot papers be handled?

    Over a million people have already early voted. If it were to prove fatal that would still take another couple weeks by which point tens of millions may have already voted. A time "before the election" has passed. Ballots are being cast. It is basically too late to replace Trump with another candidate in the traditional sense. Electoral College Electors could just give their votes to Pence. However that would be done state by state and nothing legally would force all state Electors to do so. Congress also has the authority to cancel/reschedule the election.

    5 hours ago, Area54 said:

    Any other thoughts?

    I have been worried about election result violence. I am fearful that if Biden wins White Nationalist group will perpetrate large scale domestic terrorist attacks against against people of color, immigrants, and the LGBTQ community. I am also concerned that if Trump wins we'll see violence protests throughout the nation that lead to mass fatalities. Just a lose/lose situation where people will be hurt and killed regardless of the outcome.

    If Trump were to pass from COVID I think it changes the violent forecast. Trump very publicly disregarded recommended safety precautions. Trump made ignoring COVID protocols part of his brand. Antfa, Crooked Hillary, Sleepy Joe, Nancy, the failing NY Times, etc didn't do this to Trump. There won't be any boogeymen for Trump supporters rage against if Trump passed. They would be fill with deep disappointment rather than violent anger. I think it would lower tensions.

    *I am not advocating anything with the above comments.

  18. 4 hours ago, CharonY said:

    Only peripheral related, but Trump was tested positive for COVID-19. That could shake up the campaign a bit, depending on hot the progression is.

    Also shows that no-one is fully safe.

    Trump has antagonized people for wear masks, insisted on holding rallies, repeated said re-opening is more important than further safety, and stood on the debate stage criticizing Biden. It is stunning full circle moment where all the undermining and downplaying is coming back at once. Trump has also spoken a lot about how young people are nearly immune and only older people get sick. Trump is 74yrs olds. Herman Cain was 74yrs old.

    It is a really good thing the customary handshaking before and after the debate didn't happen. That moment of social distancing is now a solid example to all.

  19. 2 hours ago, iNow said:

    I tend to agree and you're very likely right, but I believe it's less certain for those other states that aren't Florida or Georgia. Margins in Arizona look pretty good, as do MI and Wi... and IA has Trump leading, but that lead is shrinking. We'll see... Joni Ernst is also in the race of her life right now, but her opponent frankly isn't terribly compelling

    in 2016 Trump beat Realclearpolitic's aggregated polling by 7% in WI. Fivethirtyeight gave Clinton a 83.5% chance of winning WI which was better than Clinton's overall chance of winning the White House. In MI Trump beat aggregated polling by 4% and 538 gave Clinton 79% of winning which was also greater than her overall.

    You are probably correct about AZ and IA. Nothing strange there. The numbers actually surprised me when I looked them up. Both finished within decimals of a percent of their polling in 2016. Which isn't to say I think every state will mirror polling. WI and MI had issues (see below). So I think MI & WI are right there with FL & GA as virtually unwinnable by anything less than robust margins.



    "According to federal court records, 300,000 registered voters, 9 percent of the electorate, lacked strict forms of voter ID in Wisconsin. A new study by Priorities USA, shared exclusively with The Nation, shows that strict voter-ID laws, in Wisconsin and other states, led to a significant reduction in voter turnout in 2016, with a disproportionate impact on African-American and Democratic-leaning voters. Wisconsin’s voter-ID law reduced turnout by 200,000 votes, according to the new analysis. Donald Trump won the state by only 22,748 votes. "

    "More than 80 voting machines in Detroit malfunctioned on Election Day, officials say, resulting in ballot discrepancies in 59% of precincts that raise questions about the reliability of future election results in a city dominated by Democratic and minority voters."



  20. 7 hours ago, iNow said:

    They’ll both be close, though, and ballot counting will continue for several days... and IMO Trump is likely to take Florida given the way he’s been juicing the margins... appealing to Cubans with new sanctions against cigars and Rum (and talking up the evils of socialism from which they fled to America with their families) and giving millions of dollars on prescription gift cards to the elderly, etc. 

    While Trump seeks to manipulate in plain view the issue goes far beyond Trump. Red Shift has been a feature in U.S. elections for decades and has only gotten worse. Errors and anomalies will float Trump and down ballot Republicans 2-4 points in States like AZ, FL, GA, IA, MI, WI, etc.

    My belief is that on Election night Trump will start declaring victory in key states soon as the polls close. Trump will declare victory in FL, GA, OH, etc. Media pundits will cover him doing so. Pundits will caution that Trump declarations aren't official but won't be too aggressive about it. It is always seems important that everyone who isn't Trump stay professional. In declaring victory Trump will demand various states certify him the winner. Trump and Republicans officials in those states will start questioning efforts to complete counts. It will generate a lot of confusion. Some officials may actually just stop counting and defer to the courts for guidance. It will only get messier from there as state by state there are different laws on the books dictating rules and timelines for recounts, how long uncounted votes can sit, deadlines for results, and so on. Depending on how long courts take to step in and how brazenly some local officials sabotage/exploit the process we may run past critical local deadlines which make achieving full initial counts next to impossible. Think FL 00' but in several states at once.

    I suspect the chaos will be successful in states like FL, GA, an TX. Races were STOLEN in those states back on 2018 and it didn't even involve a President on TV claiming victory and threatening to investigate and file lawsuits. None of those states have done anything to fix their processes since. So I assume they are potentially unwinnable for Biden. Election Night and the week following will be an absolute nightmare. I keep reading people confidently referencing the law and insisting Trump can't just declare himself the winner but for 4yrs now I have repeated seen Trump openly break the law without ramifications: Emoluments Clause, Hatch Act, Logan Act, Nepotism, Obstruction of Justice, Campaign Finance, etc. I've seen no evidence that our system of checks and balances is capable restraining Trump. If Trump declares he won FL and DeSantis comes out and says the same I think Trump wins FL. Sure there will be some hand wringing in FL's Attorney General's office but they will make it work.

    My guess is it will come down to the Senate. If Republicans believe they kept they Senate they will hold ranks behind Trump during the chaos in the days following the elections. If Republicans project they lost the Senate they won't.

  21. 21 minutes ago, CharonY said:

    It is a sad state of affairs when it comes down preventing a disaster to take office again. But almost by necessity it does mean that it will overshadow any policy talks. You may be right, it might influence voters, but probably more in terms of actually casting a vote rather than addressing who to vote for. I mean, the only other model would be one in which folks immediately forget everything that is happening around them the second it is not on TV anymore.

    ... actually, maybe I need to revise my thinking of this situation.

    Trump with the help of McConnell and the compliance of the Republican party at large has exercised as much authority as any POTUS in my lifetime. Yet beyond cutting taxes there isn't any signature policies Trump & Republicans have passed or pursued. After years of Repeal and Replace rhetoric Republican not only didn't actually how a Repeal/Replace plan ready they haven't shown interest in coming up with one. Rather Republicans mostly seem focused on packing courts and blocking Democrats proposals. The RNC didn't even bother to release a platform. They just pushed 2016's back out without even updating it to reflect they've be in power for the last few year.

    I honestly do not know what Republicans stand for anymore. I know their supporters are angry and winning more power is what they lust for most but I don't know to what end? Republicans don't seem to be interested in policy at all. Democrats cannot debate Republicans on policy positions Republicans don't have. I am not sure how a candidate like Biden (Harris, Warren, Booker, Castro, etc) could engage with that audience. The disagreements aren't rooted in policy. 

    25 minutes ago, iNow said:

    After all, it was only 79,646 total votes cast across three states that gave this horrible human being, fraudster, and grifter the presidency in the first place. Imagine if just a few more came out or just a few more stayed home...

    Imagine if everyone had equal access to vote.

    Trump isn't trying to win a few more votes. Trump hasn't taken one step to broaden his appeal or get more voters to come out. What Trump has done is sabotage the Postal Services ability to process mail in ballots. State by state Republicans have exploited local laws to the maximum to restrict prior felons from voting, limited polling stations, denied funding required for election administration, etc. It is absolutely disgusting that it is an open secret than Biden cannot win a close race. Biden either wins in a landslide or it is 4 more years of Trump.

  22. 3 hours ago, StringJunky said:

    Would you consider David Attenborough too old at 94? He's still sharp and knocking out programmes. Ginsberg at 87 on the SC. Chronological age doesn't mean much.

    Princeton did a study of the impact that public support for particular policy ideas had and found it wasn't much. How the majority of the U.S. felt wasn't very influential regarding which policies passed or fail. Rather corporate preferences had the prominent influence.

    The system simply isn't working for the majority of people and most realize it. However few have form ideas about in what ways it is broken or how to fix it. So we get competing groups calling for various changes: term limits for Congress & SCOTUS, eliminating the electoral college, age limits, voting holiday, etc, etc, etc. In my opinion few such proposals get at the heart of the problem. We allow politicians to cheat.

    Take a look at Florida. Despite state law allowing those with felonies to get their voting rights restored after a period of time state officials would decline nearly all requests. Over a million people were denied the right to vote in elections all over the state where the those officials political Party was repeating squeaking out victories by sometimes just hundreds of votes. Then the law was changed via a voter supported referendum. So in response the state officials, same one who won tight elections because over a million people couldn't vote, instituted a fine of up to $1,500 to have ones voting rights restore. They just bypassed the referendum and added on this huge expensive only a minority of people can possibly afford. Yet Florida doesn't lose electoral influence in national elections or anything. Florida still gets to be just as impactful to the General Election as it always is despite the fact the state has a demonstratively corrupt system that disenfranchises significant portions of its voters.

    Term limits, age limits, voting holidays, etc won't fix that. As a nation we are disgusting apathetic towards the way Politicians pick their voters rather than vice versa.



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