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People who have had ndes are said to have life reviews in which they see and feel every moment of their lives. Now I am going to ask a question here. If, for example, someone has struggled with depression in his/her life, but has completely gotten over it in which he/she can no longer experience it anymore no matter how hard he/she tries to, then how can it be experienced again during a life review? If he/she has completely gotten over his/her depression and can't ever experience it again, then how can those depressive feelings be experienced all over again in a life review?

Edited by MarioWorldGamer
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People who have had ndes are said to have life reviews in which they see and feel every moment of their lives.

 

 

As this is an illusion (i.e. there is no way of knowing that the person actually re-experienced their life or just thought they had) any questions about it seem moot.

 

 

 

If he/she has completely gotten over his/her depression and can't ever experience it again, then how can those depressive feelings be experienced all over again in a life review?

 

Maybe they don't have those feelings. Maybe they just remember having had those feelings. Maybe they don't experience or remember it at all. Maybe they just think they did.

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As this is an illusion (i.e. there is no way of knowing that the person actually re-experienced their life or just thought they had) any questions about it seem moot.

 

 

Maybe they don't have those feelings. Maybe they just remember having had those feelings. Maybe they don't experience or remember it at all. Maybe they just think they did.

 

There is an explanation offered by Susan Blackmore under the section titled "Life Reviews" which has something to do with the temporal lobes:

 

http://www.susanblackmore.co.uk/Articles/si91nde.html

 

So if it really does have something to do with this, then how can those depressive feelings be experienced again if the person is completely over his/her depression? Let me ask you this. When a person has had a moment of depression in his/her life and has completely gotten over it to the point it is impossible for him/her to experience it again, but this person then develops temporal lobe epilepsy, then can those depressive feelings come back all over again somehow? If so, then how is this possible considering that he/she was completely over his/her depression?

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There is an explanation offered by Susan Blackmore under the section titled "Life Reviews" which has something to do with the temporal lobes:

 

http://www.susanblackmore.co.uk/Articles/si91nde.html

 

So if it really does have something to do with this, then how can those depressive feelings be experienced again if the person is completely over his/her depression? Let me ask you this. When a person has had a moment of depression in his/her life and has completely gotten over it to the point it is impossible for him/her to experience it again, but this person then develops temporal lobe epilepsy, then can those depressive feelings come back all over again somehow? If so, then how is this possible considering that he/she was completely over his/her depression?

 

 

I broke my leg in a boating accident, I am healed but I can still remember what it was like..

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Now in order to recall certain feelings/emotions, the brain would have to have an emotional memory. For example, when I listen to a certain song, that triggers feelings from the past. This is because my brain has that emotional memory. But if someone has struggled with depression and has gotten over it completely and that feeling can no longer be triggered anymore, then there is no more emotional memory of that experience which means it shouldn't be experienced ever again.


If it is experienced again for some brief moment, then that emotional memory is still there. But not to the degree that it was when the person first struggled with his/her depressive life crisis. Over time as the depression passes, that emotional memory goes away. If there are no more emotional memories of depression in your life, then there is no reason why those moments of depression you had in the past should be experienced all over again during a hellish nde or a life review.


In regards to flashbacks such as what people with temporal lobe epilepsy experience, wouldn't that also require an emotional memory to bring back that feeling? If there is no more emotional memory, then all that should be experienced from that flashback is just the familiar sensations (sights and sounds) from that moment, but not the emotions from that given moment such as despair, sadness, rage, etc.

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Not ever having a NDE, I can't say what might or might not constitute a NDE life review; however, what I can say is that our memories can have an emotional element and evoke our memory of their circumstance. I really see no reason why we would forget what we experienced emotionally because we have somehow overcome or grew beyond that experience. Although I may remember all the moments of despair, sadness, and rage over my many years, the memory of those emotions don't overwhelm me now and I don't see how they might should I ever experience an NDE life review. In that NDE moment, in my opinion, the past can't affect us anymore than it already has.

Edited by DrmDoc
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Not ever having a NDE, I can't say what might or might not constitute a NDE life review; however, what I can say is that our memories can have an emotional element and evoke our memory of their circumstance. I really see no reason why we would forget what we experienced emotionally because we have somehow overcome or grew beyond that experience. Although I may remember all the moments of despair, sadness, and rage over my many years, the memory of those emotions don't overwhelm me now and I don't see how they might should I ever experience an NDE life review. In that NDE moment, in my opinion, the past can't affect us anymore than it already has.

I'm not talking about remembering what something felt like. I am talking about the feelings themselves coming back. When someone has a depressive moment in their lives, something was there in the brain that was necessary to trigger those depressive feelings. But that something is gone when those depressive feelings go away and can no longer be triggered anymore. You are now able to look back on those depressive moments you had in the past, but this time without feeling depressed anymore from that. Therefore, those depressive feelings from the past should not be experienced all over again during a life review or a hellish nde since that "something" that was there to trigger your depressive feelings from the past is no longer there anymore. At least, that is what I am thinking.

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I'm not talking about remembering what something felt like. I am talking about the feelings themselves coming back. When someone has a depressive moment in their lives, something was there in the brain that was necessary to trigger those depressive feelings. But that something is gone when those depressive feelings go away and can no longer be triggered anymore. You are now able to look back on those depressive moments you had in the past, but this time without feeling depressed anymore from that. Therefore, those depressive feelings from the past should not be experienced all over again during a life review or a hellish nde since that "something" that was there to trigger your depressive feelings from the past is no longer there anymore. At least, that is what I am thinking.

 

 

As I now understand, you are equating an NDE life review with a type of relapse experience of some prior state of being. If NDE life reviews are this type of immersive experience, then an immersive re-experience of prior trauma should be likely regardless of one's current state of being. If, however, the experience is more like watching a movie of one's life in review, then it is likely to have the same dissociative affect as one might experience from a spectator's perspective. The answer to your question, I think, depends on whether this NDE life review is an immersive or dissociative experience.

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As I now understand, you are equating an NDE life review with a type of relapse experience of some prior state of being. If NDE life reviews are this type of immersive experience, then an immersive re-experience of prior trauma should be likely regardless of one's current state of being. If, however, the experience is more like watching a movie of one's life in review, then it is likely to have the same dissociative affect as one might experience from a spectator's perspective. The answer to your question, I think, depends on whether this NDE life review is an immersive or dissociative experience.

I am also going to ask something else here. Think of the most horrifying dream you had and how horrible that felt. The negative feelings/emotions in our nightmares tend to be far more worse than the ones we have when we are awake. The ones we have in our nightmares are like abnormal mental states that we just simply don't experience in our waking lives.

 

Now during ndes, people say they are conscious. That it is more real than real. So does the fact that they are conscious make the negative feelings/emotions they experience during their ndes not as bad? Or are they just as bad as they are in our nightmares? Are they experiencing their negative feelings/emotions just as they would in their nightmares, or are they experiencing them normally like when we are awake?

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That "more real than real" comment is a lot like an experience I know something about, lucid dreaming. Our perceptions and sensations while lucid dreaming can and often do seem more vivid than reality. If an NDE experience is like a lucid dream, that experience could be as vivid and also as brief as a lucid dream with briefly lingering affects one might expect from a dream experience. The thought to keep in mind is that these types of experiences are only momentarily real from our perspective with seldom lasting affects.

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  • 2 weeks later...
I have experienced intense hopelessness (depression) in my nightmares. It was a completely abnormal experience. It is nothing that I would experience here in the waking world. There is no words to describe how much hell it was.


If I ever have a hellish near death experience or a life review, then can those same exact experiences be experienced again even though I am completely over them? Knowing this possibility has taken my life away and has made me suicidal. You don't realize just how horrible that depression was that I experienced in my nightmares.


Knowing that I could experience it all over again during a near death experience has completely troubled and traumatized me. I am not at peace. I am ok with reexperiencing the moments of depression I had in my waking life, but not the ones during my nightmares as those are the absolute worst ones.


So my vital question here is, are the negative emotions experienced during an nde just as bad as they are in nightmares? Or are they only just as bad as they are in the waking world? I am hoping that they are only as bad as they are in the waking world because this would mean that I would not be able to experience the level of depression I experienced in my nightmares.
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I have experienced intense hopelessness (depression) in my nightmares. It was a completely abnormal experience. It is nothing that I would experience here in the waking world. There is no words to describe how much hell it was.
If I ever have a hellish near death experience or a life review, then can those same exact experiences be experienced again even though I am completely over them? Knowing this possibility has taken my life away and has made me suicidal. You don't realize just how horrible that depression was that I experienced in my nightmares.
Knowing that I could experience it all over again during a near death experience has completely troubled and traumatized me. I am not at peace. I am ok with reexperiencing the moments of depression I had in my waking life, but not the ones during my nightmares as those are the absolute worst ones.
So my vital question here is, are the negative emotions experienced during an nde just as bad as they are in nightmares? Or are they only just as bad as they are in the waking world? I am hoping that they are only as bad as they are in the waking world because this would mean that I would not be able to experience the level of depression I experienced in my nightmares.

 

 

I think NDEs and nightmares are differentiated by what is likely happening in the brain when each occurs. During near-death experiences, the brain is struggling against the physiological affects of dying; whereas, nightmares involves the metabolic processes of sleep related to the affects of stress. In each case, our perceptions during these experiences are likely how our brain interprets the metabolic and physiological processes involving those experiences. During NDE events, I believe the brain will supply whatever perceptual experience is necessary to sustain its continued function during the process of dying. Therefore, the brain will likely supply perceptual experiences that motivate continued survival, such as favorable memories of prior experiences in one's life or imagery suggesting a continuation into some afterlife--this is not to say that fear isn't a motivation our brain might employ. One more thing, our brain releases a flood of endorphins during the process of dying, which suggests the unlikely event of negative perceptual experiences during this process. However, this is not a suggestion that the process of dying is simple or without severe psychological consequences.

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I think NDEs and nightmares are differentiated by what is likely happening in the brain when each occurs. During near-death experiences, the brain is struggling against the physiological affects of dying; whereas, nightmares involves the metabolic processes of sleep related to the affects of stress. In each case, our perceptions during these experiences are likely how our brain interprets the metabolic and physiological processes involving those experiences. During NDE events, I believe the brain will supply whatever perceptual experience is necessary to sustain its continued function during the process of dying. Therefore, the brain will likely supply perceptual experiences that motivate continued survival, such as favorable memories of prior experiences in one's life or imagery suggesting a continuation into some afterlife--this is not to say that fear isn't a motivation our brain might employ. One more thing, our brain releases a flood of endorphins during the process of dying, which suggests the unlikely event of negative perceptual experiences during this process. However, this is not a suggestion that the process of dying is simple or without severe psychological consequences.

 

But I've heard that emotions are greatly intensified during ndes. That goes for both positive and negative emotions. There are what is known as hellish (distressing) ndes. Although they are not as numerous as the heavenly blissful ndes, there are a number of them. So if I have a hellish nde, then I am very troubled that I will experience depression as intense as I did in those nightmares I had.

 

People who have distressing ndes are said to experience intense negative emotions and I worry that they are as bad and intense as they are in nightmares. I am hoping they are not as bad as they are in nightmares since this would mean that any depression I experience in a hellish nde or even depression from one of my own nightmares in a life review won't be as bad and intense as the depression I actually experienced in my nightmares.

Edited by MarioWorldGamer
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But I've heard that emotions are greatly intensified during ndes. That goes for both positive and negative emotions. There are what is known as hellish (distressing) ndes. Although they are not as numerous as the heavenly blissful ndes, there are a number of them. So if I have a hellish nde, then I am very troubled that I will experience depression as intense as I did in those nightmares I had.

 

People who have distressing ndes are said to experience intense negative emotions and I worry that they are as bad and intense as they are in nightmares. I am hoping they are not as bad as they are in nightmares since this would mean that any depression I experience in a hellish nde or even depression from one of my own nightmares in a life review won't be as bad and intense as the depression I actually experienced in my nightmares.

 

Distressing NDEs are likely a result of the mindset of the individual and the circumstances rendering his or her NDE state. In one report of a hellish NDE that I recall, the individual experienced cardiac arrest as a result of a drug overdose. The person was a drug addict who was plagued by many metaphorical demons. Conceivably, this addict's NDE motivated his desire to live using the consequences of a hellish afterlife experience. Whether hellish or heavenly, the dying brain's aim is to stimulate continued survival in my opinion. If you were to experience a NDE, it's likely your brain will use either your hellish fears or heavenly yearnings as survival motivations. Depression isn't a survival motivator and seems contrary to the survival initiative of brain function amid death. This isn't about the conscious intent of an individual amid a dying state but rather the metabolic and physiological imperatives of a dying brain's struggle to survive. NDEs, I believe, are the psychological effects of a dying brain's survival imperatives. Recalling negative life experiences would be counterproductive to the imperatives of a dying brain unless they represent the strong motivation of addressing some issue left unresolved.

Edited by DrmDoc
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Distressing NDEs are likely a result of the mindset of the individual and the circumstances rendering his or her NDE state. In one report of a hellish NDE that I recall, the individual experienced cardiac arrest as a result of a drug overdose. The person was a drug addict who was plagued by many metaphorical demons. Conceivably, this addict's NDE motivated his desire to live using the consequences of a hellish afterlife experience. Whether hellish or heavenly, the dying brain's aim is to stimulate continued survival in my opinion. If you were to experience a NDE, it's likely your brain will use either your hellish fears or heavenly yearnings as survival motivations. Depression isn't a survival motivator and seems contrary to the survival initiative of brain function amid death. This isn't about the conscious intent of an individual amid a dying state but rather the metabolic and physiological imperatives of a dying brain's struggle to survive. NDEs, I believe, are the psychological effects of a dying brain's survival imperatives. Recalling negative life experiences would be counterproductive to the imperatives of a dying brain unless they represent the strong motivation of addressing some issue left unresolved.

 

There are reports of people who have had distressing ndes in which they felt hopelessness (depression). So it's not just fear and blissful emotions that are experienced here. Depression is also experienced as well. As for the life reviews, people say that it is stimulation of the temporal lobe that causes flashbacks of all those memories and associated emotions with them. For example, people with temporal lobe epilepsy say that they experienced something similar to a life review in which they had a flashback of their memories and emotions. So the recall of negative life experiences seem to be flashbacks.

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There are reports of people who have had distressing ndes in which they felt hopelessness (depression). So it's not just fear and blissful emotions that are experienced here. Depression is also experienced as well. As for the life reviews, people say that it is stimulation of the temporal lobe that causes flashbacks of all those memories and associated emotions with them. For example, people with temporal lobe epilepsy say that they experienced something similar to a life review in which they had a flashback of their memories and emotions. So the recall of negative life experiences seem to be flashbacks.

 

Have you evaluated the details of those distressing NDEs? What, precisely, was the content of those experiences? Were those experiences of hopelessness associated with a life review? Without further details, how are we to know that this hopelessness wasn't connected to some survival yearning left unresolved? Hopelessness within one's state of dying doesn't necessarily translate as a re-experience of some negative period in one's life. I'm not aware of any study connecting NDEs specifically to temporal activations. The human brain experiences a burst of activity in all areas amid the dying process. Before you set your mind to what negative NDEs may encompass, look at the details of those experiences and evaluate whether they truly align with a review of negative life experiences.

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Have you evaluated the details of those distressing NDEs? What, precisely, was the content of those experiences? Were those experiences of hopelessness associated with a life review? Without further details, how are we to know that this hopelessness wasn't connected to some survival yearning left unresolved? Hopelessness within one's state of dying doesn't necessarily translate as a re-experience of some negative period in one's life. I'm not aware of any study connecting NDEs specifically to temporal activations. The human brain experiences a burst of activity in all areas amid the dying process. Before you set your mind to what negative NDEs may encompass, look at the details of those experiences and evaluate whether they truly align with a review of negative life experiences.

 

An example would be them being in an empty void in which they feel hopeless or them encountering hellish imagery/beings that results in them feeling hopeless. Also, you say that hopelessness should not be experienced since the brain is trying to ensure survival and that the only way it should be experienced is if there is some unresolved issue in this person's life.

 

But the brain is doing all sorts of crazy things during an nde. It is messing with your perception in so many different ways. So a depressing experience during an nde could just simply be a result of the brain doing all sorts of things. Maybe depression during an nde doesn't have to only be the result of an unresolved issue in the person's life. The brain is reconstructing all sorts of experiences and perhaps depression is one of them for some people.

Edited by MarioWorldGamer
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An example would be them being in an empty void in which they feel hopeless or them encountering hellish imagery/beings that results in them feeling hopeless. Also, you say that hopelessness should not be experienced since the brain is trying to ensure survival and that the only way it should be experienced is if there is some unresolved issue in this person's life.

 

But the brain is doing all sorts of crazy things during an nde. It is messing with your perception in so many different ways. So a depressing experience during an nde could just simply be a result of the brain doing all sorts of things. Maybe depression during an nde doesn't have to only be the result of an unresolved issue in the person's life. The brain is reconstructing all sorts of experiences and perhaps depression is one of them for some people.

 

If the void and hellish imagery is as you described, they suggest a compelling reason for exiting the NDE state. If the individual believed he was experiencing the throws of death, then those hellish perceptions may have been produced as a motivation to survive that experience. One primary motivation for staying alive is our fear of what may come with or after death. Therefore, it seems to me that this type of distressing NDE wasn't about revisiting a prior depressive state but rather about the consequences of remaining within that state. Again, as I perceive, this is about the survival instinct inherent in brain function and the mental mechanisms it may use to promote survival.

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If the void and hellish imagery is as you described, they suggest a compelling reason for exiting the NDE state. If the individual believed he was experiencing the throws of death, then those hellish perceptions may have been produced as a motivation to survive that experience. One primary motivation for staying alive is our fear of what may come with or after death. Therefore, it seems to me that this type of distressing NDE wasn't about revisiting a prior depressive state but rather about the consequences of remaining within that state. Again, as I perceive, this is about the survival instinct inherent in brain function and the mental mechanisms it may use to promote survival.

 

If you ever had a nightmare out of the blue when you were having no stress in your life, then perhaps it was because you ate something or perhaps some other physical process in the brain happened that caused that nightmare. The nightmare, in this case, was not a means to ensure your survival due to some situation in your life. Rather, this nightmare was caused by what was going on in the brain during your sleep.

 

So in that same sense, can the depressing scenarios people experience in a distressing nde just be the result of the physical processes in the brain that happen during near death? Maybe perhaps in addition to releasing endorphins near death, the brain also sometimes releases a bunch of stress hormones and does other things to try to revive the person. So maybe that is the cause of those depressing and distressing moments during their ndes.

 

Maybe it has nothing to do with the person perceiving his/herself in a dangerous situation and the brain creating those stress responses to warn that person to get out of that situation. Maybe it is instead a matter of the physiological processes that go on in the brain during near death such as the release of stress hormones in addition to endorpins, etc.

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If you ever had a nightmare out of the blue when you were having no stress in your life, then perhaps it was because you ate something or perhaps some other physical process in the brain happened that caused that nightmare. The nightmare, in this case, was not a means to ensure your survival due to some situation in your life. Rather, this nightmare was caused by what was going on in the brain during your sleep.

 

So in that same sense, can the depressing scenarios people experience in a distressing nde just be the result of the physical processes in the brain that happen during near death? Maybe perhaps in addition to releasing endorphins near death, the brain also sometimes releases a bunch of stress hormones and does other things to try to revive the person. So maybe that is the cause of those depressing and distressing moments during their ndes.

 

Maybe it has nothing to do with the person perceiving his/herself in a dangerous situation and the brain creating those stress responses to warn that person to get out of that situation. Maybe it is instead a matter of the physiological processes that go on in the brain during near death such as the release of stress hormones in addition to endorpins, etc.

 

Nightmares are different from a brain struggling to survive. They are products of the metabolic needs of the brain likely arising from resource exhaustion and toxic cellular waste build-up induced by chronic stress. When nightmares occur, the brain is trying to restore and maintain its resources rather than preserve its diminishing functions. Nightmares are products of the unconscious mind and, therefore, are not overtly reflective of what an individual believes his conscious experiences are. Comparing nightmares to NDE is like comparing apples and oranges, they are separate and distinct with equally separate and distinct neurological roots.

Edited by DrmDoc
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Nightmares are different from a brain struggling to survive. They are products of the metabolic needs of the brain likely arising from resource exhaustion and toxic cellular waste build-up induced by chronic stress. When nightmares occur, the brain is trying to restore and maintain its resources rather than preserve its diminishing functions. Nightmares are products of the unconscious mind and, therefore, are not overtly reflective of what an individual believes his conscious experiences are. Comparing nightmares to NDE is like comparing apples and oranges, they are separate and distinct with equally separate and distinct neurological roots.

 

I also have another question. When I experience negative emotions such as depression in my fully conscious (awake) state, they are nowhere as bad as they would be in my nightmares. I know you said ndes are different than nightmares, but let me ask this question anyway. People are said to be more conscious than waking conscious.

 

So would this mean that any depressive experience I would have during an nde also not be as bad as they would be in my nightmares? Is it only the dream state where negative emotions are extremely powerful? Or can they also be just as or even more powerful as they are in dreams/nightmares during ndes? I was thinking that since people who have ndes are fully conscious and since it is only the dream state where negative emotions are extremely powerful, that negative emotions won't be that powerful during an nde since an nde is not a dream state.

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I also have another question. When I experience negative emotions such as depression in my fully conscious (awake) state, they are nowhere as bad as they would be in my nightmares. I know you said ndes are different than nightmares, but let me ask this question anyway. People are said to be more conscious than waking conscious.

 

So would this mean that any depressive experience I would have during an nde also not be as bad as they would be in my nightmares? Is it only the dream state where negative emotions are extremely powerful? Or can they also be just as or even more powerful as they are in dreams/nightmares during ndes? I was thinking that since people who have ndes are fully conscious and since it is only the dream state where negative emotions are extremely powerful, that negative emotions won't be that powerful during an nde since an nde is not a dream state.

Depression can be a powerfully overwhelming experience for many people regardless of onset cause or circumstance and it seems that you are quite vexed by the possibility of such an overwhelming experience in your final moments. That fear is a product of perhaps the most powerful and compelling force of living beings, which is our instinct to survive. For many of us, any consideration of our demise is met with an overwhelming fear of what we might experience in that moment. That fear is a powerful deterrent--and rightly so--to any endeavor we might pursue that might hasten our early arrival to that event. NDEs appear to recount the experiences of those who met that event and survived. Their survival is telling of how transient that experience may be regardless of its content and intensity. Having never experienced an NDE, I can't confidently say how intense that experience will be. What I can say is that it isn't an experience I would willful attempt. I can also say that it is not one we should contemplate with any serious concern if it is not our interest to meet our end sooner rather than later. If there is one thought we should take from all the NDE accounts we may have heard or read is that the people who have had NDEs also survived to give us their stories, which is a testament to their mental resiliency amid a certainly traumatic experience.

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Depression can be a powerfully overwhelming experience for many people regardless of onset cause or circumstance and it seems that you are quite vexed by the possibility of such an overwhelming experience in your final moments. That fear is a product of perhaps the most powerful and compelling force of living beings, which is our instinct to survive. For many of us, any consideration of our demise is met with an overwhelming fear of what we might experience in that moment. That fear is a powerful deterrent--and rightly so--to any endeavor we might pursue that might hasten our early arrival to that event. NDEs appear to recount the experiences of those who met that event and survived. Their survival is telling of how transient that experience may be regardless of its content and intensity. Having never experienced an NDE, I can't confidently say how intense that experience will be. What I can say is that it isn't an experience I would willful attempt. I can also say that it is not one we should contemplate with any serious concern if it is not our interest to meet our end sooner rather than later. If there is one thought we should take from all the NDE accounts we may have heard or read is that the people who have had NDEs also survived to give us their stories, which is a testament to their mental resiliency amid a certainly traumatic experience.

 

The possibility that I could experience that level of depression I did during my nightmares in a near death experience is something that constantly troubles me since it was an indescribably horrible experience. I don't ever wish to experience that again fully conscious during a near death experience. I find my life not worth living with this constant obsessive thought (worry). It does not go away since it is just too much of an overwhelming realization.

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The possibility that I could experience that level of depression I did during my nightmares in a near death experience is something that constantly troubles me since it was an indescribably horrible experience. I don't ever wish to experience that again fully conscious during a near death experience. I find my life not worth living with this constant obsessive thought (worry). It does not go away since it is just too much of an overwhelming realization.

 

It's clear that you may have deeper concerns that cannot be adequately addressed through open forums like this or with anyone other than a specialist, where you live, with whom you can discuss your concerns face-to-face. Obsessions can be most debilitating and, perhaps, it would be wiser to consultant with someone in your area regarding your experiences. I hope this helps.

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