fogelson Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 It's almost that simple. Picture a self inflating balloon made of cellophane. I have a chemistry question regarding some very basic principles. The materials involved: cellophane, acetic acid (6% vinegar), and sodium bicarbonate. The goal: For a 6 liter cellophane sack (balloon) to be filled using the CO2 produced from the reaction of acetic acid with sodium bicarbonate. The entire process must contained within the cellophane sack. Diluted acetic acid stored in an internal bladder within the cellophane sack is physically ruptured to expose it to the sodium bicarbonate, also contained with the sack. The entire process must be relatively safe... such as only minor skin irritation if contacted. Is there a different combination of chemicals I should be looking into? Any other considerations? This set-up will be exposed to outdoor temperature extremes from Arizona to Minnesota. Any input is appreciated! I'm currently looking for a chemist to get involved with the bigger project this question is a part of if there is any interest in discussing this further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robittybob1 Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 It seems too simple. Why would anyone get interested unless this invention has some practical purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiveworlds Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 (edited) Life-jackets? Anything inflatable to do with water really. When a life jacket comes in contact with the water you want it to self-inflate. Edited October 11, 2014 by fiveworlds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robittybob1 Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Life-jackets? Anything inflatable to do with water really. When a life jacket comes in contact with the water you want it to self-inflate. You are standing on deck and a wave splashes water on you. Do you want your life jacket to inflate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiveworlds Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 (edited) You are standing on deck and a wave splashes water on you. Do you want your life jacket to inflate? No. But you do if you fall into the ocean. http://www.sailingproshop.com/lifejacket.aspx Edited October 11, 2014 by fiveworlds 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unity+ Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 You are standing on deck and a wave splashes water on you. Do you want your life jacket to inflate? I bet you could implement a system where the air can leak out at a certain rate. That way, if you are splashed and there isn't enough water to sutain air in the jacket, it simply deflates. However if you are constantly surrounded by water it will always be inflated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robittybob1 Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 I bet you could implement a system where the air can leak out at a certain rate. That way, if you are splashed and there isn't enough water to sutain air in the jacket, it simply deflates. However if you are constantly surrounded by water it will always be inflated. Not a good idea for when you need the jacket it may have run out of reactants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fogelson Posted October 12, 2014 Author Share Posted October 12, 2014 The purpose is practical, surprisingly so. I can't risk divulging any further specific information as to the actual application or risk giving away what I believe to be an extraordinary lucrative idea. Not without legal agreements in place. Surprisingly enough given the life jacket idea, it does relate to life safety, and I've actually explored compressed gas, but the potential energy stored may create too significant of a hazard. If any knows a chemist or chemical engineer who does freelance work that is ultimately what I'm looking for with this post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Externet Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 There has to be many applications for such inflating balloon. I was tinkering a year ago with such baking soda and vinegar to propel a submarine glider. Just do your thing and put it the market ! Invite us a hamburger when wealthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharonY Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 Why is this in biology? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fogelson Posted October 13, 2014 Author Share Posted October 13, 2014 Great question. I'm new to the forum and just realized I posted this where it probably shouldn't be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Why is this in biology? ! Moderator Note Thank you. Moved to Engineering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enthalpy Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I'd prefer a pressure tank of CO2. Households have some to make whip cream and they're safe. I trust them better to work when needed and not before. Pure acetic acid is far too corrosive to skin - a friend got serious burns from it. Additionally, you can dilute any acid (sulphuric, phosphoric...) to be weak, and the others stink less than the acetic one. The reaction with bicarbonate takes minutes and minutes. Is that acceptable? Have you checked the necesssary amount of acid, especially after dilution? Other "foaming agents" exist for polyurethane, they look preferable than the acid+bicarbonate. Faster, less corrosive. Or check fire extinguishers. Could you inflate the ballon with air? How important is "self-contained" in regard to the very real drawbacks of acid and bicarbonate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Externet Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Found an older post, may be of interest for the original poster. ----> http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/29638-how-to-make-a-self-inflating-balloon/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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