Mike Smith Cosmos

ART in SCIENCE

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So science has no subjectivity whatsoever? If that is true, why do not all scientists agree on what some same set/piece of evidence 'means'? Moreover, do you really mean to suggest that science does not connect with individuals differently?

 

 

Ideally, no. Ultimately everyone has to agree on an answer. If I drop a stone off of a cliff, our answers need to be the same, and not be open to someone's interpretation. Nature only gives one answer, so only one answer can be right.

 

Asking if people connect with science differently is an example of the issue I pointed out in my last post. You're addressing a different question than I am. Of course people connect differently. Some aspects of biology makes me squeamish, but that has absolutely no bearing on whether it's correct.

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Arc these paintings of historic Animals,

produced by such a venture [ Heinrich Harder (2 June 1858 Putzar – 5 February 1935 Berlin], are a non refutable example of how a very valuable interpretation has been communicated as pure science . When no first hand evidence other than fossils, which are an incomplete picture , are turned by brilliant ART into a valuable contribution to the body of Science .

 

Mike

 

From this your stance seems to be something along the lines of all drawing is art. Given such a broad definition, then your premise must be true. I have taken a narrower definition of art.

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Nature only gives one answer, so only one answer can be right.

 

Is the cat dead or.....................

 

or if you prefer something mathematical

 

how many solutions has the equation

 

x2 + x - 6 = 0

 

 

>:D

Edited by studiot
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Is the cat dead or.....................

 

 

When you measure it, it's in an eigenstate. Before that, it's in a superposition.

 

One answer, even in QM. Even when the answer is "we can't tell until we do a measurement" because you can't tell until you do a measurement.

 

And before anyone asks, interpretations of QM are just that — interpretations. Outside of science, until such time that they can be tested.

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So science has no subjectivity whatsoever? If that is true, why do not all scientists agree on what some same set/piece of evidence 'means'? Moreover, do you really mean to suggest that science does not connect with individuals differently?

snip...

Ideally, no. Ultimately everyone has to agree on an answer. If I drop a stone off of a cliff, our answers need to be the same, and not be open to someone's interpretation. Nature only gives one answer, so only one answer can be right.

 

Not necessarily is there just one answer. (What was the question? ) Anyway, suppose our stone off the cliff lands in a pond and as the ripples ensue we decide to measure the wavelength at some set distance from the locus. Is the correct way to measure wavelength crest-to-crest, or trough-to-trough? Further let's suppose I prefer troughs and you crests. So what is Nature's answer/solution in the context of our disagreement and how does Nature inform us of that [one] solution?

 

Asking if people connect with science differently is an example of the issue I pointed out in my last post. You're addressing a different question than I am. Of course people connect differently. Some aspects of biology makes me squeamish, but that has absolutely no bearing on whether it's correct.

Whether what is correct? I certainly don't expect you to chose some examples contrary to your position, but I do expect detail enough in them so I can contend.

 

Speaking of examples, expectations, and contending; have you left off trying to understand my scientific images? I mean I guess if it's just too hard to think about what with all my hints, then it's easy tounderstand why you're not trying, but in all fairness I played with your thrown stones. ;)

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Before that, it's in a superposition.

 

So by definition there is more than one answer since there must be at least two answers to superpose.

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Is the correct way to measure wavelength crest-to-crest, or trough-to-trough?

 

That's an interesting question because either will produce a wavelength and a bit.

 

This is a bit like asking how many decades are there in 0 - 10.

 

I really only posted this to show that I am not picking on swans.

:)

Edited by studiot

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Speaking of examples, expectations, and contending; have you left off trying to understand my scientific images? I mean I guess if it's just too hard to think about what with all my hints, then it's easy tounderstand why you're not trying, but in all fairness I played with your thrown stones. ;)

 

Is it the grid structure of the Macator projection , used to make a world globe able to be represented on a flat sheet. or the equivalent for the starry Sky ?

 

Mike

Edited by Mike Smith Cosmos

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Is the correct way to measure wavelength crest-to-crest, or trough-to-trough?

That's an interesting question because either will produce a wavelength and a bit.

 

This is a bit like asking how many decades are there in 0 - 10.

 

I really only posted this to show that I am not picking on swans.

:)

 

:lol: No worries. You found my question interesting and that's good enough for me. While I have you on the line, can you identify the scientific principle illustrated by my artsy drawings? (Not to pick on you or anything. ;) )

Is it the grid structure of the Macator projection , used to make a world globe able to be represented on a flat sheet. or the equivalent for the starry Sky ?

 

Mike

No Sir; not map projections. It wouldn't be a stretch to call them mappings however. Mmmm...reminds me of a book I read some years ago called Mapping the Next Millineum...hold on...accessing... yes; here it is.

1997 by Stephen Hall >> http://www.amazon.com/Mapping-Next-Millennium-Stephen-Hall/dp/0517178575

A visually stunning and conceptually explosive report from the frontiers of mapmaking. Ranging from the mapping of the ocean floor to the scanning of remote galaxies, from portraits of subatomic collisions to an unprecedented view of the mathematical constant "pi, " this work makes the theoretical compellingly concrete, even as it reminds us that the world is far more vast than we ever dreamed. Photographs throughout.

Must have leaked into my psyche. :lol:

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While I have you on the line, can you identify the scientific principle illustrated by my artsy drawings? (Not to pick on you or anything. ;) )

 

 

I was reminded of picks theorem.

 

Google is very artsy about this

 

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en-GB&source=hp&q=pick%27s+theorem&gbv=2&oq=picks+th&gs_l=heirloom-hp.1.0.0i10j0l2j0i10j0l2j0i10j0l2j0i10.1500.4000.0.6531.8.8.0.0.0.0.203.1078.0j6j1.7.0....0...1ac.1.34.heirloom-hp..1.7.1078.b1U92oOu8rY

Edited by studiot

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What a happy band of ARTY people !

 

post-33514-0-88845800-1396308160_thumb.jpg

 

BBC. art to illustrate latest findings on period right back to next to Big Bang inflation . Publicised two weeks ago . New evidence . I think it was a new analysis of the microwave signature , hence the curly bits whirling out carrying information about those very early moments. They said it was definitive proof of something. I think it was inflation. So inflation was no longer a possible theory , but rather evidence was now in for the theory. Alan Guth will be pleased .

 

Described here on BBC by David Shuckman Swirls described post #66 ( two forward )

 

Mike

Edited by Mike Smith Cosmos

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An excellent pick. Not the right pick, but good nonetheless. ;) Notice that on my drawings the vertices do not all fall on an equidistant grid. Hint: My submitted art IS what it describes.

 

So, I have been assiduously researching my submissions for support when they are outed and Swan challenges them, and I ran across something only tangentially related but interesting to our topic here at large. Here we goes then:

 

 

Applications of Mathematics in Models, Artificial Neural Networks and Arts

2010, pp 601-610

From Art to Mathematics in the Paintings of Theo van Doesburg

 

Paola Vighi,

Igino Aschieri

 

Abstract

The aim of this chapter is to show how present, use or find some mathematical concepts, starting from an artistic production. In particular, we chose Arithmetic Composition I (1930), painted from Theo van Doesburg: we propose to read it with mathematical eyes. In our path we touch the concepts of ratio, geometrical progression, gnomon, perimeter and area, symmetry and so on. We wish that our suggestion can promote the need and the opportunity of mathematical instruments for investigating more in depth, in any context.

source: >> http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007%2F978-90-481-8581-8_27

What a happy band of ARTY people !

Jolly well said. Thanks for provoking our caranniums. :D

you caught my stone too.

sorry, crosspost

Roger. Coming back at ya.

 

And this, our life, exempt from public haunt, finds tongues in trees, books in the running brooks, sermons in stones, and good in everything. ~ William Shakespeare

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Pictorial evidence of very early universe . As referred to post #64 ( two posts back ..BBC PROG )

post-33514-0-89517700-1396309452_thumb.jpg

 

Mike

Edited by Mike Smith Cosmos
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So by definition there is more than one answer since there must be at least two answers to superpose.

 

No, that's not correct QM. There are two eigenstates, but the superposition is unique.

 

That would be like saying 1/2 is two answers, because there's a 1 and a 2.

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to answer this problem you must open the box by asking a question.

you must take a measurement thus changing the result.

Edited by davidivad

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Arc these paintings of historic Animals,

produced by such a venture [ Heinrich Harder (2 June 1858 Putzar – 5 February 1935 Berlin], are a non refutable example of how a very valuable interpretation has been communicated as pure science . When no first hand evidence other than fossils, which are an incomplete picture , are turned by brilliant ART into a valuable contribution to the body of Science .

 

Mike

 

Although the phrase "You really cannot overestimate his influence" may not be accurate enough for science, It is none the less accurate in describing Heinrich Harder. In a era before radio and television, where newspapers and magazines distributed almost all current news, he gave the world, both inside and outside of science, the first true to life (as could be known) glimpse as to what all those bones in the museums really looked liked in their natural environments.

 

http://www.copyrightexpired.com/Heinrich_Harder/

"Around 1906 Harder did a series of illustrations for the Naturalist Wilhelm Bolsche, who wrote a short history of the planet earth. The articles appeared in the weekly family magazine Die Gartenlaube. When the Berlin Zoo added an Aquarium in 1913, Harder was commissioned to paint murals of extinct creatures around the perimeter walls."

 

"He also created relief sculptures of some of the animals as well. The main entrance to the new Aquarium was adorned with a life sized Iquanodon sculpture by Harder."

 

" The Reichardt Cocoa company had been issuing a series of collector cards of prehistoric animals and Harder was recruited to illustrate two series of them, for a total of 60 illustrations. Wilhelm Bolsche wrote the description of the creatures for the back of the card. Harder also illustrated a book by Bolsche, Tierwanderungen in der Urwelt in 1915. Harder went on to become an art professor at the Berlin University."

 

His paintings, actually his vision of what these bygone worlds resembled influenced prehistoric depictions of these creatures and environs for generations. His hand is seen in sci/fi books and cinematic versions of J.Verne's Journey to the Center of the Earth, Mysterious Island and even King Kong. You can also see his influence in the art of early 20th century adventure stories and comic books. His influence on this plebeian media may not seem important, but Heinrich Harder introduce almost covertly through his art the workings of evolution to the public that hungered for science content at a most critical time in the early development of that theory. He taught through his art an entire generation the practical results of evolutionary theory.

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Is it the grid structure of the Macator projection , used to make a world globe able to be represented on a flat sheet. or the equivalent for the starry Sky ?

 

Mike

Mercator

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If you ever come to London you will have the opportunity to visit Kew Gardens.

 

What many never see there, hidden away, is the Marianne North Collection.

 

Marianne North was a rich victorian lady who used her inheritance to travel to exotic places.

 

She was an artist, but she never sold anything, she painted purely for pleasure.

 

Wherever she went she sketched and painted the local flora and fauna, many of which were unknown in Europe.

 

These works were so good that they were adopted as the standard representation in botanical and biological texts and her style was copied almost universally.

 

In her will she left the entire collection to the Nation and bequeathed enough money to build a fine housing for it.

 

This museum was constructed in Kew Gardens. It also houses an unrivalled collection of (some polished) wood panels from every tree she could obtain material.

Again these are an excellent basis for a collection of scientific samples, although again originall collected for their artistic merit.

 

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en-GB&source=hp&q=marianne+north+gallery&gbv=2&oq=marianne+north&gs_l=heirloom-hp.1.1.0l10.1156.3578.0.5719.14.13.0.0.0.0.250.1984.0j4j6.10.0....0...1ac.1.34.heirloom-hp..4.10.1984.lyvcuc08XQk

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If you ever come to London you will have the opportunity to visit Kew Gardens.

 

What many never see there, hidden away, is the Marianne North Collection.

 

Marianne North was a rich victorian lady who used her inheritance to travel to exotic places.

 

She was an artist, but she never sold anything, she painted purely for pleasure.

 

This museum was constructed in Kew Gardens.

Again these are an excellent basis for a collection of scientific .......

 

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en-GB&source=hp&q=marianne+north+gallery&gbv=2&oq=marianne+north&gs_l=heirloom-hp.1.1.0l10.1156.3578.0.5719.14.13.0.0.0.0.250.1984.0j4j6.10.0....0...1ac.1.34.heirloom-hp..4.10.1984.lyvcuc08XQk

post-33514-0-59219100-1396339699_thumb.jpg

post-33514-0-75326100-1396340461_thumb.jpg

I have seen these pictures. I used to live up the road from Kew Gardens . At Ealing Common.

 

They are phenomenol, copious, .in a building holding a life's work.

 

I think I now know ,what I will do with the rest of my life . I will go to the regions of the " unknown unknowns " and the " known unknown 's " and the edge of the " knowns , where it interfaces with the unknown " as well as the " known !

 

And paint it ! .......... ........... ....... I am inspired !

 

Mike

 

Ps good old Donald Rumsfeld...... ..[T]here are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns there are things we do not know we don't know. Donald Rumsfeld sagte am 12. Februar 2002 ( by the way he was minister of defence in USA , when the pentagon got collided with by a terrorist bombing attack 7/11 . For those who do not know who he was . )

Edited by Mike Smith Cosmos

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Great examples all. Well, we'll have to excuse Mike for according Dumsfeld with goodness, but Mike's a Brit after all. :lol:

 

Another of my art pieces rooted in science then? Don't mind if I do. ;)

 

13565976204_b545de98fe.jpg

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Great examples all. Well, we'll have to excuse Mike for according Dumsfeld with goodness, but Mike's a Brit after all. :lol:Another of my art pieces rooted in science then? Don't mind if I do. ;)13565976204_b545de98fe.jpg

This is the same as the previous but one ,one , is it not ?

 

Mike

Edited by Mike Smith Cosmos

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